The burden of proof falls upon you because I have simply stated the obvious, that there is consciousness, you have gone on to claim "that things exist outside of consciousness". The fact is that the burden of proof is yours, stop twisting obvious and clear logic.jupiviv wrote: The burden of proof falls upon whoever makes proofless or unreasonable claims.
The word consciousness, from this viewpoint, is a description of the nature of reality, not some particular part of reality. So unless you are implying that the totality of reality must also have a distinct cause, then that reasoning only works from your view based on your claim.jupiviv wrote: Simple logic tells us that without causes nothing (including consciousness) can exist, and that causes are distinct from their effects. It also tells us that consciousness is not a container.
From your perspective, you implied that the things which "exist outside of consciousness" would continue to exist entirely independently from consciousness, if lets say, all life were to come to an end.I didn't say the causes of consciousness exist independently of it.
Really, what are those?Also, that's not the only reason I gave as proof of my assertion, because there are plenty of very obvious ways in which one can prove it.
You've got to be kidding, that's exactly what you've done with things like "constantly changing experience of constant change", in fact, check out the following:jupiviv wrote:I'm not sure what any of your words actually mean anymore, because you evidently feel no qualms about changing both your own and others' words to win an argument.
jupiviv wrote:Seeker, what puffest thou?
jupiviv wrote:In fact as I've said before it is just your way of avoiding suffering,
Switching to ad hominem and sarcasm again, you're not right because you believe so strongly that you're right, so stop arguing from the assumption that it's all been done for you, that this popular view must be the correct one, and that I must be high for disagreeing, you actually have to use some reasoning of your own, then you'll find that you have no valid reason whatsoever to assert that there are "things existing outside of consciousness". Consciousness is all any being, any writer, and any philosopher, has ever known, only the deluded - just like any christian - believe in this "more out there".jupiviv wrote:nd out of the charred pupa that used to be SeekerOfWisdom shall emerge
Again I'd like the point out that I have made the claim: "Consciousness exists."
You have made the claims: "Consciousness exists."
"Things exist outside of consciousness".
"Burden of proof" is yours. By the way, I'm about 90+% sure you only believe this because like most people, you have continued to believe whatever you were taught when you were young, whatever the popular world view is unquestioned and unquestionable. I'm saying that you don't yet understand this: "Reality defines and determines what is logical. Logic does not define or determine what is real".