GENIUS FORUMS

More and more observations show me that the self is definitely real. It is in fact identical to the symbolic part of the the brain, the part connected with language and representation.

In most cases the symbolic portion is not intelligent, on the other hand it shuffles symbols habitually and repetitively. Further it represents itself as the master of the body/mind which it is definitely not. Both these actually run on conditioned habits, as does the symbolic part itself. The problem is that most of our symbols/representations are totally corrupted and drowned in such corrupt symbolic forms the self never figures out its own position vis a vis the body and the world.

Self knowledge then consists of the refinement of representations and symbols and a thorough awareness of the body/mind mechanisms.


As far as I can see, the self is quite weak. However it has the capacity to act intelligently, and learn from experience. Thus it can maximize the well being of the system. Its main power is reconditioning, that is it can break habits by increased awareness and patient correction. For example if you feel perpetually anxious, it is no more than a habit, an aware self can break this habit by patient correction, i.e. breaking habitual thought patterns relaxation of the body etc.


However in most cases the self even forgoes, this power of reconditioning by imagining itself to be much more than it really is. This flawed representation of itself as the master of the house yields to confusion and misery. That is it tries to achieve a particular aim, but it cannot, due to its flawed knowledge (of cause and effect) and then it becomes more anxious and confused and tries to shifts blame elsewhere. This also leads to the drive for security and gaining powers over others. The lack of self knowledge leads to seeking approval from others and society, the cycle of frustration is endless.

Common symbolic structures (read social conditioning) tie down certain affective states to certain achievements, like money prestige romantic-relationships etc, lacking which it is assumed that the affective state is one of dissatisfaction and seeking. In my experience the self can achieve a very balanced and pleasant affective state, by reconditioning of the mind. Self knowledge gives the shortest path to affective well being, on the other hand the socially accepted path is rather convoluted and does not achieve its aims, because the dissatisfied affective state has become a habit, and is not at all relieved by the achievement in question.

maestro wrote:For example if you feel perpetually anxious, it is no more than a habit, an aware self can break this habit by patient correction, i.e. breaking habitual thought patterns relaxation of the body etc.

Your own experiences are valid, but by no means translate to a universal truth or system of mental equilibrium.

It is a fascinating question, I'll admit. Having said what I just did above, let me go on to seemingly contradict it. I was prescribed Zoloft, and then Effexor (which is the same thing) and proceeded to take it for many months. At first, the only effects were dryness of the mouth and a bit of sleeplessness. This was predicted, however. The mild side-effects tend to predominate for a month or two, then subside, and as your neural chemistry adapts, the intended effects take over. This is in fact what happened. Situations which produced anxiety routinely within me no longer did so. After a while, I could no longer remember why the anxiety had ever been such a predictable part of my life. After a year or two, I decided to wean myself from the Effexor, as it was not covered by my insurance and is not free. Also, it has ongoing sexual side-effects that do not subside with usage.

I found that the anxiety has not returned. In other words, in agreement with your statement in the above quote, the habitual chain of thought patterns had been effectively broken. Whatever built them in the first place has apparently not been present in my life to reestablish their existence.

So my own experience has seemed to show that relaxation techniques were not effective in breaking the undesirable thought-patterns. A prescription medication had that effect, however, and continuing my daily life without the undesirable patterns showed them to be dispensible. That is, correctable, much like you say they are. Admittedly, this is merely one person's story, and only covers a certain period of my life. But it showed to me that if the negative thought-patterns could be interrupted, their place might be taken by less self-defeating thought patterns, which would subsequently keep the older ones from returning by simply replacing them.

Very interesting stuff!

brokenhead wrote:So my own experience has seemed to show that relaxation techniques were not effective in breaking the undesirable thought-patterns.
A prescription medication had that effect, however, and continuing my daily life without the undesirable patterns showed them to be dispensible. That is, correctable, much like you say they are.

I acknowledge that the self is pretty weak, with its main weapon being reconditioning. Reconditioning works slowly and weakly, while a drug could break a pattern instantaneously, but in the long run reconditioning has greater rewards. To successful recondition you must try to gain awareness of the patterns to catch them, you also need a lot of practice to learn how to do it right. Both of these in turn strengthen the self, which will lead to greater discoveries and reconditioning of even more subtle thought and feeling and physical patterns. The drug while it acts faster also has unknown side effects, and there is a danger of relapse.

Admittedly, this is merely one person's story, and only covers a certain period of my life. But it showed to me that if the negative thought-patterns could be interrupted, their place might be taken by less self-defeating thought patterns, which would subsequently keep the older ones from returning by simply replacing them.

Yes and similarly with feeling patterns, and with bodily postures etc.

I conjecture that the self can become so powerful as to keep the mind/body in a light and pleasant state almost all the time. For this it needs philosophical refinement, awareness of the body/mind and lots of practice with reconditioning.

maestro wrote:I conjecture that the self can become so powerful as to keep the mind/body in a light and pleasant state almost all the time. For this it needs philosophical refinement, awareness of the body/mind and lots of practice with reconditioning.

Yes, it takes work. In my experience, people tend to neglect various aspects of the self as they go on in life. Some people neglect one aspect; many neglect multiple aspects of the self. Relentless work on one's self translates into that pleasant state you talk about.