GENIUS FORUMS

Yes, I know what the bigger ones are (love hate, depression, happiness...) but where is the line? For example, is curiosity an emotion? Amused would be an emotion, right? What about purposeful?

Is a peanut a meal?

Is a meal a life?

Aren't the Carolina Panthers better than thier 4-3 record?

I say yes. And thus we strive toward enlightenment and victory.

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:Yes, I know what the bigger ones are (love hate, depression, happiness...) but where is the line? For example, is curiosity an emotion? Amused would be an emotion, right? What about purposeful?

The line is where you arbitrarily draw it. In actuality there are no such distinctions.

prince wrote:

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:Yes, I know what the bigger ones are (love hate, depression, happiness...) but where is the line? For example, is curiosity an emotion? Amused would be an emotion, right? What about purposeful?

The line is where you arbitrarily draw it. In actuality there are no such distinctions.

Actually, a chair is an emotion, if you just believe.

Tharan wrote:Is a peanut a meal?

Is a meal a life?

Aren't the Carolina Panthers better than thier 4-3 record?

I say yes. And thus we strive toward enlightenment and victory.

Victory over emotions? What would victory mean for you, the removal of emotions or the mastery over them so that you could call them up as appropriate?

prince wrote: The line is where you arbitrarily draw it. In actuality there are no such distinctions.

Then I ask where those of you who have chosen an unemotional life as a goal, where do you draw your lines? Is "wondering" an emotion as in "I wonder where these people draw their line between what is an emotion and what is not?"
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edit to add: Do all feelings count as emotions?

I added this question as an edit rather than tagging it on the end because I believe putting the question here contributes to the ease of flow of the conversation line.
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millipodium wrote:Actually, a chair is an emotion, if you just believe.

I don't know if you realize the truth that you wrote. Many people, mostly female but more and more males, have a disorder in which they will express their feelings as "I feel fat." Therapists will point out that "fat" is not an emotion, but to certain people, it certainly feels like an emotion. In the same way, it is possible that one could express "I feel chair." It might be more conceptually acceptable stating it with the grammar "I feel like a chair" but I believe that you have a point millipodium.

Eliza,

Then I ask where those of you who have chosen an unemotional life as a goal, where do you draw your lines? Is "wondering" an emotion as in "I wonder where these people draw their line between what is an emotion and what is not?"

Thoughts that do not arise from attachments are not emotions. Wondering is not an emotion unless you expect a particular answer and refuse to accept any unexpected answer: if you are not attached to the question or answer, you are not acting emotionally.

Thank you Trevor. I believe I understand a little better, but it will take me awhile to fully absorb that point.

Trevor,
I recognize that I do not understand your point well enough. If one stimulates happiness or a generalized love without attaching those feelings to anyone or anything, nor becomes attached to the feelings themselves, it seems to me that happiness and love would still be emotions.

Eliza,

If one stimulates happiness or a generalized love without attaching those feelings to anyone or anything, nor becomes attached to the feelings themselves, it seems to me that happiness and love would still be emotions.

You are talking about a border-line case, but I find it hard to imagine stimulating happiness or generalized love without some attachment, if only an attachment to proper functioning.

If I'm wrong, and there is a way to stimulate an emotion without simultaneously responding to an attachment, then your counter-example is adequate and I'm stuck with the dictionary definition of "an affective state" (which answers very little). However, I believe that 'attachment' is such a broad generalization that my definition also works.

Perhaps if you understand why I am asking this line of questions, you will be better equipped to supply me with the answers that I seek.

In response to your above post, what I had been working with was the stimulation of positive emotions without attachment and doing my best to control my emotions (as opposed to allowing my emotions to control me). Loneliness did come up about once a week although for briefer periods as time went on, and other sad emotions did hit briefly until I would notice them and make them go away. Each of these states would arise when I let myself relax on the intentional injection of positive energy into my psyche.

With all of the debate about uplifting and painful emotions being two sides of the same coin, I finally decided that I could not make a truly accurate assessment of the position without experiencing enough of an emotion-free period, so I decided last night to abstain from all emotions as best as I could for one full week. I allowed today as a warm-up day, knowing that it would take a short while to break the habitual response. Although I have met my expectations of not allowing anything that felt like an emotion for more than a fraction of a second before removing it (the exception was that I forgot my vow and became annoyed in one of my dreams last night), and have significantly reduced the frequency of emotional responses for even that fraction of a second. However, shortly after taking my vow last night, I promptly discovered that I had not adequately defined what emotion-free would mean. That is the reason for my questions.

Although attachment-free affective states may qualify for the above paradigm, they will not fit in my experiment. That is why today I seek the opinions of those who have made the argument for “no emotion” and why I am looking so closely at exactly where the line is between emotion and no emotion. For my experiment to be valid, I must have well defined parameters. Today, my warm-up day, is proving valuable for helping me examine some of these details – but it could be helpful to obtain the opinions of those who have thought about or attained this state for longer than I have even considered it as a realistic possibility.

Elizabeth,

How would you rate your emotional intelligence?

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:

millipodium wrote:Actually, a chair is an emotion, if you just believe.

I don't know if you realize the truth that you wrote. Many people, mostly female but more and more males, have a disorder in which they will express their feelings as "I feel fat." Therapists will point out that "fat" is not an emotion, but to certain people, it certainly feels like an emotion. In the same way, it is possible that one could express "I feel chair." It might be more conceptually acceptable stating it with the grammar "I feel like a chair" but I believe that you have a point millipodium.

Oh, good grief.

Steven Coyle wrote:Elizabeth,

How would you rate your emotional intelligence?

Although I suspect that I should be cautious in answering this question without knowing your motives for asking, I believe that you are well-intentioned so I will answer as best as I can.

I can not "rate" my emotional intelligence, I can only describe it in a general way.

The clients I have worked with have reported that I am excellent. I am very good at predicting the outcome and the remainder of a sequence of emotions and behaviors. I can usually correctly suppose the rest of a story when given certain details. I pick up on details easily, which can be very useful in reading or at least knowing to ask about the emotional states of others. I am generally very skilled at helping others with agressive behaviors, but I am only about average when I am the target of their aggression. I have (and have had since I was a small child) an excellent natural talent, especially in person, at getting people to talk about things that they normally wouldn't talk about with anyone. I have been told that I am very good at helping people see emotion-related issues for what they are, alleviate their symptoms, and assist them with implementing behaviors that are better suited for their goals.

From an academic standpoint, I am fairly familiar with many concepts, and from an experiential standpoint, I have survived and learned from more levels of hell than most people have imagined. Considering all that I have been through, I have turned out quite well. I do have PTSD (more accuratly it is complex PTSD [although that has not passed as an official DSM diagnosis yet] due to the extent and duration of the traumas, as well as the fact that the things I went through started when I was so young), and PTSD is not considered good emotional intelligence; but I have learned to control the symptoms to quite an extent. Perhaps abstaining from all emotions will help the startle reflex - the one symptom that has universally proven to be the most stubborn symptom to alleviate.

I do quite well in emergency situations - in fact the bigger the emergency, the more likely it is that I'll be the one getting everything back under control. Conversely though, I do not do as well when everything is going smoothly; I tense up. Once everything is going wrong that can possibly go wrong, I am in familiar territory and relax because I know what to do.

I consider that my experiment does not have anything to do with my emotional intelligence, but it has to do with my rational acceptance that experience will give me more accurate data. I also recognize that even with my experience, the data that I collect will only be applicable to me, and possibly relevant to some others with complex PTSD. Nevertheless, I can not change my past - so this is the only kind of first-hand data I can collect.

It sounds like you know yourself pretty well.

I raised the question because if your emotional intelligence is good, then emotions shouldn't (ideally) be a hinderence to your reasoning ability.

I don't believe it's reasonable to attempt to rid yourself of all emotion - but instead, only the thinking that leads to illogical ones.

It sounds like your experiment should be informative.

Best of luck.

Steven Coyle wrote:Best of luck.

Thank you.

Steven Coyle wrote:I don't believe it's reasonable to attempt to rid yourself of all emotion - but instead, only the thinking that leads to illogical ones.

Can you give an example of a logical emotion?

Can you give an example of a logical emotion?

Any emotion that arises after a logical thought.

A dependence on or an addiction to emotion would be illogical.

Kevin Solway wrote:

Steven Coyle wrote:I don't believe it's reasonable to attempt to rid yourself of all emotion - but instead, only the thinking that leads to illogical ones.

Can you give an example of a logical emotion?

Using precise phrasing, it isn't the emotion itself that is either logical or illogical - rather it is logical or illogical use of emotions.

Using colliquial phrasing, it would be an emotion that is used for a purpose. Positive states of mind have been shown to have many health benefits. Determination motivates one to accomplish one's goals, whereas a sense of duty only gets one through tasks. Fear has been shown to allow for moments of super-human strength, therefore it would be logical if one required super-human strength for a particular task. Shock reduces blood flow and can eliminate pain - so that would be logical until medical help arrived if one had a serious wound. Curiosity is more likely to bring one to seeking deper truth than just "wondering" but curiosity is only logical if one can let go of it should the answer prove unavailable or of a lower priority.

Secondarily, a "logical emotion" could be considered a predictable emotional reaction to a given circumstance. I won't get into details on that one as I know that this is not applicable to the intent of your question - but it was worth mentioning to be complete in the answer.