GENIUS FORUMS

[quote="Carl G"][quote="Carmel"]Carl,

Carl:

For me, the question is universal, not planetary, for one thing. In other words, how and where did life actually start? Probably not on our little planet. For another I see a case being made for intervention, in the form of an alien hand in the engineering of modern humans, and likely some of the plants and animals as well.
--

Carmel:

The Theory of Evolution doesn't address the universal questions that you seek, it explains how life on earth evolved over the past 3,800,000,000 years. I think many people have trouble with evolution because they can't really fathom 3.8 billion years. If you sit and contemplate how long that really is, macroevolution may become easier to accept.

As for life elsewhere in the Universe, nobody really knows, though I think it's entirely feasible. Scientists have established that there are at least
500 billion galaxies in addition to our own, and that number keeps growing. It seems arrogant to me to think that we are the only life amongst such a vast universe. (--There are some really cool pictures of different galaxies at HubbleSite.org., if you're inclined to look.)

Prince:

A human can not beget from less than a human.
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Carmel:

So you're proposing that God placed us here fully intact with his giant God hand. ...or maybe you believe we evolved from Adam's rib? ...after God placed Adam here with his giant God hand first, of course.

Magic!

Did God say "abracadabra" before performing such an amazing trick?

Carmel wrote:
The Theory of Evolution doesn't address the universal questions that you seek, it explains how life on earth evolved over the past 3,800,000,000 years.

It purports to explain, but okay, point taken.

I think many people have trouble with evolution because they can't really fathom 3.8 billion years. If you sit and contemplate how long that really is, macroevolution may become easier to accept.

Length of time does not strengthen the case. The truth is what it is. I'm just saying that I don't particularly trust the tellers. I think there may well be a cover-up, like there is about so much else. The powers that be love to undermine our spiritual nature, for one thing, by selling us on the idea that we are just glorified apes. I don't particularly buy their story about other aspects of reality, so why should I subscribe to this.

The science establishment stinks because it is controlled. As far as I am concerned the evolution theory may no more than an atheists' creationism story. It is just as likely that humans came from the stars, as the tales of so many indigenous peoples tell. More likely there is a mix of the two.

As for life elsewhere in the Universe, nobody really knows,

This is pure speculation on your part that nobody really knows. Especially considering the numbers of reported contacts, and the testimony of government workers who have supposedly interacted with aliens and alien technology.

though I think it's entirely feasible. Scientists have established that there are at least
500 billion galaxies in addition to our own, and that number keeps growing. It seems arrogant to me to think that we are the only life amongst such a vast universe. (--There are some really cool pictures of different galaxies at HubbleSite.org., if you're inclined to look.)

It is likely that life is widespread. It is reported that there is life on Mars currently. It is reported that there are aliens among us now, and have been for millenia. It is reported that their ships are in earth orbit and can be found throughout our solar system. Why doesn't mainstream science admit this? Why doesn't it recognize the anomalies within certain crop circles? Why does it not recognize that jet fuel cannot melt structural steel? Why does it not recognize the true age of the Sphinx? My opinion is because it is corrupt.

Carl,

I don't think we're ever going to having a meeting of the minds on the issue of evolution. No matter how much evidence anyone provided, you will always come back with: but I don't trust science, scientists, "the man". It seems as though your mind is closed on the matter.

Yet, you seem to have no problem accepting "eyewitness testimony" regarding aliens. I'll never understand how that is more compelling than the volumes of evidence which support evolution.

It's not your or anyone's job to convince me of evolution theory, nor mine to convince you or anyone about the agenda of those in power. But thanks for that discussion.

I agree...as you said earlier "to each his own".

...and your welcome. :)

Cory Duchesne wrote:The human appendix has no known function,

They recently discovered that it may have a role in the immune system. link

Great argument though Cory. I agree with your point that evolution is building on what was there, and a design from scratch could be made much better.

prince wrote:Humans are defined by emotions, feelings, sensitivety to the atmos.

Dogs have emotions and feelings. I know this because I have observed it. I understand that those who have worked with other types of animals also have observed emotions in various species. I'd hardly say that we were defined by these things. I'm not sure what you mean by sensitivity to the atmos though - did you mean atoms, or was that short for atmosphere, or something else?

Carl G wrote:The powers that be love to undermine our spiritual nature, for one thing, by selling us on the idea that we are just glorified apes.

Who said that apes and other animals don't have a spiritual nature? Oh, yes, the Christian church. They don't have any reason to lie to anyone. Not like the clergy would be out of a job... Reminds me, wish I'd thought of this.

Carmel wrote:No matter how much evidence anyone provided, you will always come back with: but I don't trust science, scientists, "the man". It seems as though your mind is closed on the matter.

Yet, you seem to have no problem accepting "eyewitness testimony" regarding aliens. I'll never understand how that is more compelling than the volumes of evidence which support evolution.

I couldn't have said it better.

Carmel wrote:So you're proposing that God placed us here fully intact with his giant God hand. ...or maybe you believe we evolved from Adam's rib? ...after God placed Adam here with his giant God hand first, of course.

Magic!

I don't propose, I know. God made human "in his image", meaning having the same beautifully structured and shaped features of a face (though not all people are equally beautiful as he, some less, but are given another physical endowment that makes up for it, a plain faced girl with a fantastic figure, for example, or an ugly fat dude with a very sharp mind and sweet soul)

Carmel wrote: Did God say "abracadabra" before performing such an amazing trick?

He said "It is done", which is more poetic, don't you think?

Alternative theory of evolution by Lloyd Pye

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3618889531

Carl G wrote:I disagree that Islam is the only force on earth with the means or the motive.

That's because you don't realize the attack wasn't against the American people,which are just the largest extremist faction of the cult of modernism. The attack was part of an essentially urban warfare against modernism, the ultimate globalist inherently violent "one world sentiment" that modernism couldn't help growing into.

While you are suggesting some "Illuminati" plot, my position shifted 180 degrees apart. It was against any supposed "controlling elite", performed by the deepest shadow the enlightened ones had cast over the last century. And would you think any "grass root" movement, libertarians, anarchists or whomever would ever be able to change the system? However, the system destroys itself and it seemingly creates its own adversaries to do just that. My difference with many conspiracy theorist is that I don't believe much, if any, conscious effort lies at the bottom. The system is not human, it's a beast, a suicidal mechanical doll - eating its children until its eaten by its children.

Now as far as some are concerned, the nano-thermite found in the wreckage is the smoking gun .

The chemical signatures found appeared to be nothing unusual, after further inquiry.

prince wrote:Humans are defined by emotions, feelings, sensitivety to the atmos. They are covered in hairless skin and are intensely exposed to extremes of all types.

Speak for yourself, sweet whorish baby girl.

Diebert wrote:The chemical signatures found appeared to be nothing unusual, after further inquiry.

Out of curiosity, is this your personal opinion on the matter, or can you provide some source to which this inquiry was directed to? (that finds chemical signature/remnants of nano thermate in wtc building debris as... "nothing unusual")

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:

Carl wrote:The powers that be love to undermine our spiritual nature, for one thing, by selling us on the idea that we are just glorified apes.

Who said that apes and other animals don't have a spiritual nature? Oh, yes, the Christian church.

Uh, no, that would be mainstream science.

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:

Carmel wrote: No matter how much evidence anyone provided, you will always come back with: but I don't trust science, scientists, "the man". It seems as though your mind is closed on the matter.

Yet, you seem to have no problem accepting "eyewitness testimony" regarding aliens. I'll never understand how that is more compelling than the volumes of evidence which support evolution.

I couldn't have said it better.

I could have. I would have said:
No matter how much is told to me by the representatives of established scoundrels, I, lacking the ability to study the subject in depth myself, will naturally distrust what they say. At the same time, I am aware of alternate scenarios -- evolution theory is not the only game in town -- and, again naturally, will endeavor to investigate these to the best of my ability.

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:

Carl G wrote:I disagree that Islam is the only force on earth with the means or the motive.

That's because you don't realize the attack wasn't against the American people,which are just the largest extremist faction of the cult of modernism. The attack was part of an essentially urban warfare against modernism, the ultimate globalist inherently violent "one world sentiment" that modernism couldn't help growing into.

While you are suggesting some "Illuminati" plot, my position shifted 180 degrees apart. It was against any supposed "controlling elite", performed by the deepest shadow the enlightened ones had cast over the last century. And would you think any "grass root" movement, libertarians, anarchists or whomever would ever be able to change the system? However, the system destroys itself and it seemingly creates its own adversaries to do just that. My difference with many conspiracy theorist is that I don't believe much, if any, conscious effort lies at the bottom. The system is not human, it's a beast, a suicidal mechanical doll - eating its children until its eaten by its children.

The evidence is against your so eloquently expressed theory. But thanks for sharing!

Now as far as some are concerned, the nano-thermite found in the wreckage is the smoking gun .

The chemical signatures found appeared to be nothing unusual, after further inquiry.

Please divulge your sources. As far as I can tell nano-thermite is of military manufacture and is a powerful charge for demolition. That is its only application. It isn't naturally found in construction materials nor does it naturally synthesize in building rubble or jet wreckage.

Carl,

Carl wrote: For me, the question is universal, not planetary,

lol - oh god, here we go..

In other words, how and where did life actually start? Probably not on our little planet.

"probably not on our little planet?" Why do you conclude this? Can you demonstrate the reasoning processes that got you to that conclusion? Do you have a background in physics, organic chemistry, biology and the ability to apply mathematics to what you know about these fields?

For another I see a case being made for intervention, in the form of an alien hand in the engineering of modern humans, and likely some of the plants and animals as well.

Carl, all you are doing is pushing problems far away where they can't bother you. Your "alien hand" has the exact same dilemma as humans. In other words, your alien dude is a red herring, because he also has to figure out how the hell he came into existence.

Maybe it was a different alien hand that helped him out, huh?

But at what point are you going to stop playing these childish games and make an effort to understand "abiogenesis".

The science establishment stinks because it is controlled.

If you recall, there was a guest on the reasoning show, Susan Blackmore, and she had all the freedom she needed to scientifically study astral travel, a phenomenon she claims to had experienced herself. After years of careful study, she found no evidence we have astral bodies, and realized that it was more likely that our brains were generating illusions.

Do you think she was controlled or that the results of her studies were twisted and suppressed? If so, how exactly did this happen?

As far as I am concerned the evolution theory may no more than an atheists' creationism story. It is just as likely that humans came from the stars, as the tales of so many indigenous peoples tell.

Again, an absolutely ridiculous red herring. IF they did indeed come from another star, how did they initially get on that first star? You are doing nothing but trying to escape from your problems into fantasy. You take a problem, and then you insert a fantasy that doesn't even remotely solve the problem, but merely pushes it far, far away. Light years away! But no matter how many light years away you push something, no matter how many billions of years back into the past you try to bury it, the problem is still going to be there. Please give it up with these childish red herrings.

It is likely that life is widespread. It is reported that there is life on Mars currently.

Reported by who? Do you have the balls to actually back up the insane shit you say by giving us your sources?

It is reported that there are aliens among us now, and have been for millenia. It is reported that their ships are in earth orbit and can be found throughout our solar system. Why doesn't mainstream science admit this?

Do you even know the names and backgrounds of any of the scientists and astronauts who get the clearest perspective of events around the international space station and solar system? There really is no "mainstream science", Carl. There are just individual people. People of which I doubt you have any connection to or understanding of. Yet you feel warranted to make sweeping and demeaning conclusions about these people. You insult and demean some of the best of mankind, all the while, gobbling up all these flaky ideas dispensed by some of the most reckless, naive, megalomaniac, idiotic and dishonest people our planet has to offer.

The powers that be love to undermine our spiritual nature, for one thing, by selling us on the idea that we are just glorified apes.

Well obviously your "spiritual nature" is pretty feeble if it can be undermined/harmed by a theory as elegant as that of natural selection. In your case, I would substitute "spiritual nature" with "emotional, fantasy-prone nature".

Carl G wrote:

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:

Carl wrote:The powers that be love to undermine our spiritual nature, for one thing, by selling us on the idea that we are just glorified apes.

Who said that apes and other animals don't have a spiritual nature? Oh, yes, the Christian church.

Uh, no, that would be mainstream science.

Would you please point to one scientific study claiming that animals do not have a spiritual nature? One single study will do fine.

Carl G wrote: I, lacking the ability to study the subject in depth myself, will naturally distrust what they say.

"I, Carl, do be uneducated and uneducatable, so's I do be suspicious of them there learned folk."

Okay, so what are you doing on a site called "Genius Forum?"

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The 08/08/08 Crop Circle
The sheer scale of this formation is a wonder to behold.
http://my.opera.com/richardinbellingham ... re=7983636

Jesus Christ Crop Circle Wall Clock
Only $18.00
http://www.cafepress.com/+jesus_christ_ ... k,99008453

Wise Owl Crop Circle Wiltshire, UK. August 10th, 2009
This crop circle has a very Mayan feel to it and is another message about wisdom.
There are 13 feathers above the eyes of the owl and 13 in gematria + ECHAD = One.
http://academysounds.blogspot.com/2009/ ... ircle.html

Phoenix Crop Circle
The 400-foot design was discovered in a barley field June 15, 2009.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... world.html

_______________________________________
BETTER WATCH OUT FOR THE MEATGRINDER


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Tomas wrote:.


The 08/08/08 Crop Circle
The sheer scale of this formation is a wonder to behold.
http://my.opera.com/richardinbellingham ... re=7983636

Interesting that they decided that it was an 8 because it showed up on 8/8/08. At first it looked like an infinity symbol to me, but I guess it would make more sense that the space aliens wanted to communicate to us that they support the Gregorian calendar.

Cory Duchesne wrote:

In other words, how and where did life actually start? Probably not on our little planet.

"probably not on our little planet?" Why do you conclude this? Can you demonstrate the reasoning processes that got you to that conclusion? Do you have a background in physics, organic chemistry, biology and the ability to apply mathematics to what you know about these fields?

The law of averages, plus the high probability per witnesses private and government who have reported contact with far more advanced civilizations than ours.

For another I see a case being made for intervention, in the form of an alien hand in the engineering of modern humans, and likely some of the plants and animals as well.

Carl, all you are doing is pushing problems far away where they can't bother you.

Fuck off with your kindergarten imagination. I'm not doing this at all. First off, the issue doesn't bother me. Second, I'm not pushing anything off. I have simply stated that I am not of a mind to investigate this particular subject in depth, and I do not trust the mainstream establishment -- for good reason -- that promotes the particular viewpoint, that is, evolution theory. So, I guess I will never know. And I'm fine with that.

Your "alien hand" has the exact same dilemma as humans. In other words, your alien dude is a red herring, because he also has to figure out how the hell he came into existence.

Maybe it was a different alien hand that helped him out, huh?

That is exactly what I said, so you can stop rolling your self-righteous girlie eyes at me.

But at what point are you going to stop playing these childish games and make an effort to understand "abiogenesis".

Good point, but not from that hodge-podge video with an obvious agenda. You're saying the issue of the inception of life is different from the development of life. They are two separate issues, good point. Has science reached a consensus about the inception. If so, then much of the progression from there could quite feasibly be a natural (evolutionary) one. I still think the evidence is quite strong for intervention in the case of humans, and perhaps some plants and animals as well. Lloyd Pye, for one, makes a fair case for that.

The science establishment stinks because it is controlled.

If you recall, there was a guest on the reasoning show, Susan Blackmore, and she had all the freedom she needed to scientifically study astral travel, a phenomenon she claims to had experienced herself. After years of careful study, she found no evidence we have astral bodies, and realized that it was more likely that our brains were generating illusions.

Do you think she was controlled or that the results of her studies were twisted and suppressed? If so, how exactly did this happen?

I recall listening to part of that podcast but not finding it very compelling. Astral bodies, that was it?

As far as I am concerned the evolution theory may no more than an atheists' creationism story. It is just as likely that humans came from the stars, as the tales of so many indigenous peoples tell.

Again, an absolutely ridiculous red herring. IF they did indeed come from another star, how did they initially get on that first star?

Exactly my point. I was simply stating an alternate way for humans to arrive on Earth. Crawling out of the sea is just one way.

You are doing nothing but trying to escape from your problems into fantasy.

You are the one with the problem. I do not have one.

You take a problem, and then you insert a fantasy that doesn't even remotely solve the problem, but merely pushes it far, far away. Light years away!

This is your fantasy about me, it has nothing to do with me.

But no matter how many light years away you push something, no matter how many billions of years back into the past you try to bury it, the problem is still going to be there. Please give it up with these childish red herrings.

You obviously haven't red(sic) my posts too well. I am not trying to push anything anywhere. I question whether life began on earth, that is all. It is a valid question.

It is likely that life is widespread. It is reported that there is life on Mars currently.

Reported by who? Do you have the balls to actually back up the insane shit you say by giving us your sources?

What makes it "insane shit"? The fact that mainstream media and science don't cover the issue?

http://projectcamelot.org/index.html

I've posted this link before in reference to Kevin's query to me about extraterrestrials. You can do a search there for Mars bases, or if you want more detail PM me.

It is reported that there are aliens among us now, and have been for millenia. It is reported that their ships are in earth orbit and can be found throughout our solar system. Why doesn't mainstream science admit this?

Do you even know the names and backgrounds of any of the scientists and astronauts who get the clearest perspective of events around the international space station and solar system?

Huh? Who do you think has a clear perspective? Have you ever heard of black projects? Top secret clearance? Do you know anything about the secret space program for which NASA is a front? Do you have any idea how the world really works?

There really is no "mainstream science", Carl. There are just individual people.

This is your fantasy and you are welcome to it.

People of which I doubt you have any connection to or understanding of. Yet you feel warranted to make sweeping and demeaning conclusions about these people.

Unfortunately, I do.

You insult and demean some of the best of mankind, all the while, gobbling up all these flaky ideas dispensed by some of the most reckless, naive, megalomaniac, idiotic and dishonest people our planet has to offer.

Sadly you are incorrect.

Carl wrote:http://projectcamelot.org/index.html

The producers of that show are too gullible.

Alternative religion. Pray to the aliens once. :-)
http://www.goodworksonearth.org/do_you_ ... ow_up.html

1456200423 wrote:

Carl wrote:http://projectcamelot.org/index.html

The producers of that show are too gullible.

How so?

Alternative religion. Pray to the aliens once. :-)
http://www.goodworksonearth.org/do_you_ ... ow_up.html

So you spam us with crap??

Carl G wrote:

1456200423 wrote:

Carl wrote:http://projectcamelot.org/index.html

The producers of that show are too gullible.

How so?

It is my opinion on them, after watching them for a while.

Project Camelot interviews Dr Steven Greer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzqDVOjtNhg

Carl G wrote:

1456200423 wrote:Alternative religion. Pray to the aliens once. :-)
http://www.goodworksonearth.org/do_you_ ... ow_up.html

So you spam us with crap??

Your standards are not that high, to call my posts spam and crap. Care to elaborate?

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:

Tomas wrote:.


The 08/08/08 Crop Circle
The sheer scale of this formation is a wonder to behold.
http://my.opera.com/richardinbellingham ... re=7983636

Interesting that they decided that it was an 8 because it showed up on 8/8/08. At first it looked like an infinity symbol to me, but I guess it would make more sense that the space aliens wanted to communicate to us that they support the Gregorian calendar.

I should've mentioned that image #111 is of the solar system's planets and well-worth a peek. #113 (close-up of a circle) demonstrates the space alien's sloppiness that they didn't pay attention to detail, note the stalks weren't properly laid-in-place. Perhaps their whirly-wheel was malfunctioning.

-Thin Lizzy-
...that they support the Gregorian calendar.

-tomas-
Very good, Elizabeth. You win a cookie!

Isn't it great to go from crop circle, through intelligent design to 9/11 demolition theory? They have all one thing in common: there must exist a they or an it or uncertain powers or forces to make the ideas work. In other words the problem is not being too much conspiracy minded or a doubting Thomas: the problem is being not cynical, not suspicious enough toward the possibility of falling into traps: some subtle need for hidden realities behind reality to exist - in itself not a bad drive.

Carl G wrote:The evidence is against your so eloquently expressed theory. But thanks for sharing!

This is the thing which you seemed to have missed: my theory is just that, not relying on evidence, one can think about it, using ones own mind and perhaps compare it with some general knowledge or insights and reject it or ponder over it. That was the point of it.

On the other hand your theorizing is totally dependent on who you want to believe, a mainstream, government funded inquiry, one or the other expert, people trying to appear like an expert or experts in one field trying to be an expert of another one or specialists who act like they are representing "their field" somehow in an authoritative sense while they're still just one opinion.

In that little world Carl, it's all about whose motives or sanity you trust or not. And you made up your mind, it often seems, without much room for debate left. Wouldn't it be safer to assume all people, including many scientists can be very gullible and emotion driven or agenda ridden? And work from there, not automatically assuming you picked the 'winners' because their story somehow fulfills a desire to be the one to peek "behind the screens".

1456200423 wrote:

Diebert wrote:The chemical signatures found appeared to be nothing unusual, after further inquiry.

Out of curiosity, is this your personal opinion on the matter, or can you provide some source to which this inquiry was directed to? (that finds chemical signature/remnants of nano thermate in wtc building debris as... "nothing unusual")

On the thermite issue I'm not qualified to make any bold statement but there are various experts out there saying different things. One convincing argument from a chemist called Greening is that traces of alumium-thermite reactions would be not a surprise considering the violently burning molten aluminum from the disintegrated planes and the building facade, combined with many other chemicals that in a fully operational building are plenty around of.

So even after proving there were thermite reactions going on, weakening the steel structure, does not necessarily conspiracy make. When there's a simpler explanation it's really better to go with the one giving the least complications and mystery: questions like who brought the thermite in, how was it attached and detonated, all of which there's no evidence available and weaken the whole demolition theory in the face of any alternative explanation that even looks remotely likely.