GENIUS FORUMS

Orenholt wrote:

Getoriks wrote: Freedom isn't free. Nor is it easy. What is most difficult? To know thyself. To he who does not know himself, the bliss of agape seems so agonizing, its warmth so freezing.

Could you speak in plainer terms instead of being poetic about it?

How can infinity be ideal when it has things in it that aren't ideal?
Would you say that a milkshake is ideal if it has brusslesprouts in it?

What does milkshake and brusselsprouts have in common, whether or not they are mixed together?

movingalways wrote:
What does milkshake and brusselsprouts have in common, whether or not they are mixed together?

Well they're both still sustenance.

Would it have been any better if I had said a milkshake with bolts and screws in it?

Orenholt wrote:

movingalways wrote:
What does milkshake and brusselsprouts have in common, whether or not they are mixed together?

Well they're both still sustenance.

Would it have been any better if I had said a milkshake with bolts and screws in it?

No, same question applies.

Perhaps if you reply to my previous post to you in this thread it will help you understand my direction in this post.

movingalways wrote:
What does 'may not' or 'shouldn't have to' (speculation) have to do with ultimate reality, which is the focus of this board?

Can you use a word or words to suggest what you intuit to be the nature of ultimate reality and give reasons why you used that word or words? No speculation allowed. :-)

Finding the word that suggests ultimate reality, then understanding this word, and finally, being transformed of this understanding, for me, is the highest ideal.

To be honest I don't understand what you're requesting.

Is the answer infinity?

From "Hope for the Flowers", one of the stories you posted in your "enlightening stories" thread:

It got darker and darker
and he was afraid.
He felt he had to let go of
everything…

Broccoli and milkshakes are empty of inherent existence. Knowing this, the butterfly can let go of any feelings it has about broccoli and milkshakes. Eat broccoli or don't eat broccoli, both movements of self/I am are equal in value. Referencing this thought to the other children's book you posted "The Big O", both thoughts about broccoli, to eat or not to eat, are whole thoughts. Being enlightened is to be moved of one's spirit unconditionally, without residue of doubt or uncertainty, to be whole. Again, I refer to your caterpillar/butterfly story. Once the caterpillar realized the futility of climbing, he had no more doubts about the futility of climbing. He was absolutely, unconditionally done with the futility of climbing. The same thing will happen when he lets go of his fear of letting go of everything and actually does let go of everything. He will have realized the futility of hanging on and will have no more doubts about the futility of hanging on. He will be absolutely, unconditionally be done with hanging on. Of my understanding, most on this board, including myself understand the futility of hanging on but have not yet completely let go of one or several or many object(s) of support.

"Infinity" is an intellectual term. The Infinite, however, suggests relationship, does it not?

ok but if we are using the analogy of glass that contains milkshake and brusslesprouts it's showing that there is both something to be perceived as good and something to be perceived as bad and they are in relation to the self.

Infinity is a noun while infinite is an adjective used to describe something so yes, you could say it's in relation to something.

Yes, Hope for the Flowers is about letting go of false conceptions to find greater happiness.
Yes, The Missing Piece Meets the Big O is about being whole in one's self instead of relying on other people to make you whole.


Though I fail to see the analogy you were attempting to make when considering practicality. The butterfly who gave up his attachment to climbing didn't give up his desire to be up high. The triangle who gave up his attachment to the idea of being part of someone else didn't give up his desire to be with the big O.



I don't understand how becoming enlightened would make me enjoy war, poverty and disease. Furthermore wouldn't it be better to solve those problems than to simply be content with them?

Orenholt wrote:

Getoriks wrote: Freedom isn't free. Nor is it easy. What is most difficult? To know thyself. To he who does not know himself, the bliss of agape seems so agonizing, its warmth so freezing.

Could you speak in plainer terms instead of being poetic about it? How can infinity be ideal when it has things in it that aren't ideal?

Certainly, in time. I was about to post an in-depth explanation, but I'm not satisfied with it just yet.

Orenholt wrote:ok but if we are using the analogy of glass that contains milkshake and brusslesprouts it's showing that there is both something to be perceived as good and something to be perceived as bad and they are in relation to the self.

Infinity is a noun while infinite is an adjective used to describe something so yes, you could say it's in relation to something.

Yes, Hope for the Flowers is about letting go of false conceptions to find greater happiness.
Yes, The Missing Piece Meets the Big O is about being whole in one's self instead of relying on other people to make you whole.


Though I fail to see the analogy you were attempting to make when considering practicality. The butterfly who gave up his attachment to climbing didn't give up his desire to be up high. The triangle who gave up his attachment to the idea of being part of someone else didn't give up his desire to be with the big O.



I don't understand how becoming enlightened would make me enjoy war, poverty and disease. Furthermore wouldn't it be better to solve those problems than to simply be content with them?

Enlightenment has nothing to do with enjoyment or contentment. If this upsets you, then either you are ready for enlightenment or you are not ready for enlightenment.

movingalways wrote: Enlightenment has nothing to do with enjoyment or contentment. If this upsets you, then either you are ready for enlightenment or you are not ready for enlightenment.

But before you said "Finding the word that suggests ultimate reality, then understanding this word, and finally, being transformed of this understanding, for me, is the highest ideal."

And aren't you defending Getorik's assertion that infinity is ideal? And since infinity includes things like war, poverty and disease wouldn't that mean that they are "ideal" also just by the fact that they are part of infinity also?