China: The Sleeping Dragon

Post questions or suggestions here.
User avatar
Cory Duchesne
Posts: 2320
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:35 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by Cory Duchesne »

Mill wrote,
You can advocate divestment and embargo from china
I can? To who?

Is there some kind of rally taking place somewhere where we can all get to together and chant 'divestment and embargo from china'?

Is there some kind of petition for me to participate in?
millipodium

Post by millipodium »

Cory Duchesne wrote:Mill wrote,
You can advocate divestment and embargo from china
I can?
Yes.


To who?
Everyone you encounter.


Is there some kind of rally taking place somewhere where we can all get to together and chant 'divestment and embargo from china'?
Maybe. DO a search. Be an adult and take responsibility for advocating your own thoughts. Or are you a one trick pony who only does nihilism?

Is there some kind of petition for me to participate in?
Maybe.

Be prepared. The right will call you a socialist or protectionist. And the left will call you a racist. So be strong. There are powerful forces of evil pulling the world down into totalitarianism.
User avatar
Cory Duchesne
Posts: 2320
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:35 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by Cory Duchesne »

I think intelligent pro-US survival trade policy would be sufficient. Without our billions in unconditional production orders, the totalitarians will implode on their own.
Do you really think that I can personally do something to influence the people who regulate and modify the trade-policy of my country?

Is that what you are advising me to do?
millipodium

Post by millipodium »

Cory Duchesne wrote:
I think intelligent pro-US survival trade policy would be sufficient. Without our billions in unconditional production orders, the totalitarians will implode on their own.
Do you really think that I can personally do something to influence the people who regulate and modify the trade-policy of my country?

Is that what you are advising me to do?
Yes. And yes. See the complacent zombie-like state this place puts you in? It won't be easy. Nothing worthwhile ever is.
User avatar
Cory Duchesne
Posts: 2320
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:35 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by Cory Duchesne »

Do you really think that I can personally do something to influence the people who regulate and modify the trade-policy of my country?

Is that what you are advising me to do?


Yes. And yes. See the complacent zombie-like state this place puts you in? It won't be easy. Nothing worthwhile ever is.
What are you doing to influence the people who regulate and modify the trade policy in your country? Give me details.
millipodium

Post by millipodium »

Cory Duchesne wrote:
Do you really think that I can personally do something to influence the people who regulate and modify the trade-policy of my country?

Is that what you are advising me to do?


Yes. And yes. See the complacent zombie-like state this place puts you in? It won't be easy. Nothing worthwhile ever is.
What are you doing to influence the people who regulate and modify the trade policy in your country? Give me details.
No.
User avatar
Cory Duchesne
Posts: 2320
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:35 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by Cory Duchesne »

Cory: What are you doing to influence the people who regulate and modify the trade policy in your country? Give me details.


Milli: No.
I'm guessing that's because you arent doing anything but ranting vainly on message boards?

Anyhow, I've done a search on Petitions and group rally's here in Nova Scotia.........not a whole lot going on here unfortunately.

My advice to you Mill is to do as I am doing and start working on the art of growing vegetables and perenial food producers.

If there is a huge economic depression than you are going to have a source of food and you will have the knowledge to help others produce their own as well.

This year I have grown enough potatoes, squash, turnips and tomatoes to last me all winter.

And it's only my second year gardening.

The city is a disease that has major roots feeding off China, other countries where there is child labor, and foolish and highly destructive methods of agriculture.

We need to put in the hard work and sacrifice required to establish food systems that are wise.

Even if you are like kevin Solway and only value the survival of wisdom, being able to provide yourself is wiser than depending on a food system potentially on the verge of collapse.
millipodium

Post by millipodium »

Cory Duchesne wrote:
Cory: What are you doing to influence the people who regulate and modify the trade policy in your country? Give me details.


Milli: No.
I'm guessing that's because you arent doing anything but ranting vainly on message boards?

Anyhow, I've done a search on Petitions and group rally's here in Nova Scotia.........not a whole lot going on here unfortunately.

My advice to you Mill is to do as I am doing and start working on the art of growing vegetables and perenial food producers.

If there is a huge economic depression than you are going to have a source of food and you will have the knowledge to help others produce their own as well.

This year I have grown enough potatoes, squash, turnips and tomatoes to last me all winter.

And it's only my second year gardening.

The city is a disease that has major roots feeding off China, other countries where there is child labor, and foolish and highly destructive methods of agriculture.

We need to put in the hard work and sacrifice required to establish food systems that are wise.

Even if you are like kevin Solway and only value the survival of wisdom, being able to provide yourself is wiser than depending on a food system potentially on the verge of collapse.
I still want you to advocate against trade with china. WHy not try to stop the worst from happening, IN ADDITION to preparing for it. Afraid to take an unpopular stand? Coward.
User avatar
Cory Duchesne
Posts: 2320
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:35 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by Cory Duchesne »

I still want you to advocate against trade with china.
And you should make your own anti-china website, film yourself expressing your views (you have the personality for it), do college radio, go around announcing your views with one of those conical loud speakers, print your message on t-shirts, hats and buttons....

I Believe in you Milli.

Now put that Bon Jovi song on repeat, crank it, up and get to work.
millipodium

Post by millipodium »

Cory Duchesne wrote:
I still want you to advocate against trade with china.
And you should make your own anti-china website, film yourself expressing your views (you have the personality for it), do college radio, go around announcing your views with one of those conical loud speakers, print your message on t-shirts, hats and buttons....

I Believe in you Milli.

Now put that Bon Jovi song on repeat, crank it, up and get to work.
I might.

And cory, sorry I call you so many names. You're just like the favored son I want to push to be his best. I will try to no do it so much.
User avatar
Ryan Rudolph
Posts: 2490
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:32 am
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

Milli wrote:
I might.
Image

Go Milli Go! Save the world for me big fella!
millipodium

Post by millipodium »

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Milli wrote:
I might.
Image

Go Milli Go! Save the world for me big fella!
Wow. That's face she makes when we.... you know.
Elizabeth Isabelle
Posts: 3771
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:35 am

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

mil wrote:
I still want you to advocate against trade with china.
Do you want fries with that? And you believe that Cory, or anyone else, should take orders from you because why? Because you can't do it yourself? Because you won't? Because you think you're too special to have to carry out your own ideas?
millipodium

Post by millipodium »

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:mil wrote:
I still want you to advocate against trade with china.
Do you want fries with that? And you believe that Cory, or anyone else, should take orders from you because why? Because you can't do it yourself? Because you won't? Because you think you're too special to have to carry out your own ideas?
I just think more people should be concerned about china. We're truly empowering evil when we empower them. What's your damage, Heather?

I know taking an actual position is not really respected in this forum's bizarro implementation of logic, but please be tolerant of the actually rational.
User avatar
Cory Duchesne
Posts: 2320
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:35 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by Cory Duchesne »

And cory, sorry I call you so many names. You're just like the favored son I want to push to be his best. I will try to no do it so much.
That's ok Dad, I love you too. I just wish you'd stop drinking.
User avatar
sue hindmarsh
Posts: 1083
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:02 am
Location: Sous Le Soleil

Post by sue hindmarsh »

millipodium wrote:
I know taking an actual position is not really respected in this forum's bizarro implementation of logic, but please be tolerant of the actually rational.
This forum constantly fosters taking the position of Truth, as it is the only logical position to take.

-

As far as China is concerned, being the most populous nation with one of the fastest growing economies puts it in a very powerful position. But there is a down side and that is they are also becoming one of the greatest polluters on the planet. As far as I can see, this mix could certainly mean drastic changes to the world order in the coming decades. It is already placing pressure on the planet’s environment, and will continue to do so as China powers forward in its industrialization.

China has a history of keeping to themselves and doing things their own way. Opening up their economy to compete with the rest of the world hasn’t aided the freeing up of their culture. They have been willing to glean the financial benefits from the West’s style of capitalism, but not the accompanying ideologies of democracy and freedom of speech. In the future they may well change their minds about this, but now they have no interest in joining the West in this way. At present, they are quite sure of their own cultural superiority, and confident about their growing economy.

Over twenty years ago I studied Chinese language, politics, history and culture because I thought this 'Sleeping Dragon' was going to be a major influence on Australia's future. This hasn't taken place as fast as I thought it would, but as history has taught us, "Every dog - and in this case 'Dragon' - has its day". So we'll just have to wait and see what unfolds.

-
Sue
millipodium

Post by millipodium »

Sue Hindmarsh wrote:millipodium wrote:
I know taking an actual position is not really respected in this forum's bizarro implementation of logic, but please be tolerant of the actually rational.
This forum constantly fosters taking the position of Truth, as it is the only logical position to take.

-

As far as China is concerned, being the most populous nation with one of the fastest growing economies puts it in a very powerful position. But there is a down side and that is they are also becoming one of the greatest polluters on the planet. As far as I can see, this mix could certainly mean drastic changes to the world order in the coming decades. It is already placing pressure on the planet’s environment, and will continue to do so as China powers forward in its industrialization.

China has a history of keeping to themselves and doing things their own way. Opening up their economy to compete with the rest of the world hasn’t aided the freeing up of their culture. They have been willing to glean the financial benefits from the West’s style of capitalism, but not the accompanying ideologies of democracy and freedom of speech. In the future they may well change their minds about this, but now they have no interest in joining the West in this way. At present, they are quite sure of their own cultural superiority, and confident about their growing economy.

Over twenty years ago I studied Chinese language, politics, history and culture because I thought this 'Sleeping Dragon' was going to be a major influence on Australia's future. This hasn't taken place as fast as I thought it would, but as history has taught us, "Every dog - and in this case 'Dragon' - has its day". So we'll just have to wait and see what unfolds.

-
Sue
And in the meantime, we should stop enabling their totalitarian ways.

"let's wait and see and hope for the best", is a cowardly, apathetic, and ineffective strategy.
User avatar
sue hindmarsh
Posts: 1083
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:02 am
Location: Sous Le Soleil

Post by sue hindmarsh »

Milli,

I just can’t take anything you say seriously. From what you have written, I’d say you’re just playing at being concerned for the people of China, for your real love is ‘grandstanding’.

-

The only way that China is going to change politically is through economic growth. At present, their major concern is their growing unemployment rate. Engaging in trade agreements with many Western nations has provided them with the necessary raw materials from imports and profits from export of their home grown industries to stabilize their economy, and thereby provide their people with a higher standard of living. Of course, countries such as Australia and the USA have profited out of these agreements – but along side this they have been given the opportunity to voice their concerns about China’s human rights violations. Whilst China remained closed off from the rest of the world, all attempts by the West to confront China on these issues has fallen on deaf ears. Even now, no one believes that China can be persuaded to change politically overnight – their culture is far too blinkered for that to happen, but given time and the level of economic growth expected, they will slowly but surely begin there own push into the 21st century. Imagine a billion people all wanting their own TV, DVD player, iPod, mobile phone, PC, fridge, washing machine, car, nicer home, better job, and cheaper electricity – and they all want them now! It is through these wants, and the need for political change to provide them, that nations are enabled to forge lasting political change.

So the bottom line is – China will change when the circumstances are ripe for it to change, and not a moment sooner.

-
Sue

p.s. There are organizations that you could join if you feel so inclined, such as Amnesty International or something like the China Friendship Society. And by the way – no, I’m not a member of either.
millipodium

Post by millipodium »

Sue Hindmarsh wrote:Milli,

I just can’t take anything you say seriously. From what you have written, I’d say you’re just playing at being concerned for the people of China, for your real love is ‘grandstanding’.

-

The only way that China is going to change politically is through economic growth.
economic growth does not bring freedom, when freedom is not a value the leadership aspires to. They are MONOPOLY capitalists, fascists basically.

At present, their major concern is their growing unemployment rate. Engaging in trade agreements with many Western nations has provided them with the necessary raw materials from imports and profits from export of their home grown industries to stabilize their economy, and thereby provide their people with a higher standard of living.
They're using SLAVE LABOR! That is not a lifestyle improvement.



Of course, countries such as Australia and the USA have profited out of these agreements – but along side this they have been given the opportunity to voice their concerns about China’s human rights violations.
And the western nations have made morally reprehensible choices, which will ultimately only empower and legitimize fascist totalitarianism. Why can't you see this? I am voicing my concerns.


Whilst China remained closed off from the rest of the world, all attempts by the West to confront China on these issues has fallen on deaf ears. Even now, no one believes that China can be persuaded to change politically overnight – their culture is far too blinkered for that to happen, but given time and the level of economic growth expected, they will slowly but surely begin there own push into the 21st century.
They have made zero progress on this front. They are NOT changing. They are only working on new and improved ways to censor and control.


Imagine a billion people all wanting their own TV, DVD player, iPod, mobile phone, PC, fridge, washing machine, car, nicer home, better job, and cheaper electricity – and they all want them now! It is through these wants, and the need for political change to provide them, that nations are enabled to forge lasting political change.
Material things are not equal to personal freedom.

So the bottom line is – China will change when the circumstances are ripe for it to change, and not a moment sooner.
We should not allow slave labor to exist a moment longer in the world economy. Remember when we boycotted South Africa to force and end to apartheid? we should do the same with china.
-
Sue

p.s. There are organizations that you could join if you feel so inclined, such as Amnesty International or something like the China Friendship Society. And by the way – no, I’m not a member of either.
China is not our friend. And Amnesty international is a hippy freak organization. so, no thanks.

Divest From China Now!

Support Freedom!
Elizabeth Isabelle
Posts: 3771
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:35 am

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

millipodium wrote: What's your damage, Heather?

... please be tolerant of the actually rational.
Who's Heather?
Elizabeth Isabelle
Posts: 3771
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:35 am

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

Sue Hindmarsh wrote:Imagine a billion people all wanting their own TV, DVD player, iPod, mobile phone, PC, fridge, washing machine, car, nicer home, better job, and cheaper electricity
...then imagine if they find out that much of the rest of the world has unrestricted access to the internet. They might get online with the whole world wide web and suddenly realize that killing babies just because they are female is not a great solution - unless they spend too much time on misogyny sites, of course.
millipodium

Post by millipodium »

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:
Sue Hindmarsh wrote:Imagine a billion people all wanting their own TV, DVD player, iPod, mobile phone, PC, fridge, washing machine, car, nicer home, better job, and cheaper electricity
...then imagine if they find out that much of the rest of the world has unrestricted access to the internet. They might get online with the whole world wide web and suddenly realize that killing babies just because they are female is not a great solution - unless they spend too much time on misogyny sites, of course.
The chinese government censors the internet in china.

Also. Are you against abortion in general, or against it for the "wrong reasons"? Just curious.
User avatar
Ryan Rudolph
Posts: 2490
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:32 am
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

Here are some relevant articles I found pertaining to the current economic changes happening within China and how those changes are affecting the world:

China's global hunt for oil: This article outlines that the competition to acquire the necessary energy resources has caused China to work towards buying out major US oil companies.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4191683.stm

China's growing focus on Africa: China allies herself with Africa for raw material extraction.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4619956.stm

Buyers line up for China's arms: imitating the US: China becomes new outlet for third world countries that cannot afford to buy expensive US weapons.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5086416.stm

China's rural millions left behind: city dwellers feel superior to rural farmers: Doesnt this attitude sound familiar?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4782194.stm

China bank aims for record float: China Imitates US Banks and scores big: Billions big, but billions enslaved to debt.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6032693.stm
millipodium

Post by millipodium »

Sue Hindmarsh wrote:
-

The only way that China is going to change politically is through economic growth.
This is a completely unproven assertion.

Actually the way we changed The Soviet Union and South Africa was through embargo and economic punishment. It worked in both cases.
Elizabeth Isabelle
Posts: 3771
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:35 am

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

millipodium wrote: Are you against abortion in general, or against it for the "wrong reasons"? Just curious.
Who?

I meant that many times they throw their babies away after they are born if they are female. It isn't abortion after birth, it's infanticide. If you think there are right reasons for infanicide, maybe you need another look at the genocide thread.

If you were asking me about my opinion about abortion - well, maybe that deserves a separate thread.
Locked