GENIUS FORUMS

Unidian wrote:Have fun with your Ubermensch fantasies.

I never considered myself an Ubermensch -- you did. When you called me that in all seriousness a few years ago, I had told you that I do not consider myself to be one.

Seriously, though. Do you actually want to talk about this shit yet again? LOL...

After I completely humiliated you the last time? Not really, no. It's old hat.

David Quinn wrote:If a person was fully rational and consequently fully accepted every scenario created by Nature (in the knowledge that Nature cannot do otherwise), then he wouldn't experience any coercion by Nature.

Nature would be the cause of such an acceptance, so it would still be coercion. :)

I don't even recognize that people are agents, let alone Nature itself. Yet it is useful to pretend that they are, for the purposes of simplifying communication. It is easier to say, "Victor decided to go to the shop and buy bread", rather than go through a list of the zillions of causal factors which contribute to the formation of such a decision.

You seem to be forgetting that words are mere figures of speech, at bottom, and don't actually contain any significant truth within themselves.

You are ignoring the fact that what you call 'pretense' -- the notion that instead of talking about zillions of causal factors, we talk about choosing to buy bread -- is reality. Such pragmatic considerations are the stuff truth is made of.

Your point is kinda like complaining that biology is not real science, because any biological event is in fact zillions of quantum effects under the hood. This is naive, sophomoric bullshit.

Victor,

Yep, keep on believing you "completely humiliated" me. It's what you need to believe, in spite of the fact you did so poorly the whole "body snatchers" joke was coined to explain what happened to the invincible Victor everyone was expecting.

Meanwhile, while you fantasize about "completely humiliating" me and various other opponents, I think you'll have the privilege of buying me a Coke tonight on your nickel. Aaaaaah, that classic flavor. Thanks, old pal! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZNfx3yed5I

You are welcome, kid. Spend your nickels wisely. You will never get any less pathetic than you already are.

Aw, don't be so pessimistic. I'll try just for you.

As for "kid," you're about three minutes older than me, son.

Learn what actual freedom is and then I might allow you to come study at my knee. Until then, toodles. :)

Unidian wrote:Learn what actual freedom is and then I might allow you to come study at my knee. Until then, toodles. :)

learn about freedom, from you? The poor loser trapped in a desperately miserable relationship because you can't afford to split up? Unable to even afford keeping your car? Desperately trying to change your life, but too weak to actually go through with your plans? Or have you finally managed to leave that dysfunctional relationship?

You had an alternative lined up at least once, and you were simply too afraid. You were too scared of change to leave.

That's not freedom. You have simply convinced yourself that you love your prison walls.

No, dude, you have nothing to teach me about freedom.

vicdan wrote:

David Quinn wrote:If a person was fully rational and consequently fully accepted every scenario created by Nature (in the knowledge that Nature cannot do otherwise), then he wouldn't experience any coercion by Nature.

Nature would be the cause of such an acceptance, so it would still be coercion. :)

Only to the degree that a person is caused to oppose such a development.

Causality isn't coercive in itself since it has no opposition to overcome.

vicdan wrote:

I don't even recognize that people are agents, let alone Nature itself. Yet it is useful to pretend that they are, for the purposes of simplifying communication. It is easier to say, "Victor decided to go to the shop and buy bread", rather than go through a list of the zillions of causal factors which contribute to the formation of such a decision.

You seem to be forgetting that words are mere figures of speech, at bottom, and don't actually contain any significant truth within themselves.

You are ignoring the fact that what you call 'pretense' -- the notion that instead of talking about zillions of causal factors, we talk about choosing to buy bread -- is reality.

It's a part of reality, yes.

Such pragmatic considerations are the stuff truth is made of.

Truths about practical matters, sure.

Your point is kinda like complaining that biology is not real science, because any biological event is in fact zillions of quantum effects under the hood. This is naive, sophomoric bullshit.

It's the other way around. You've been berating me for using language figuratively, something which biologists (and physicists, for that matter) do all the time.

-

learn about freedom, from you? The poor loser trapped in a desperately miserable relationship because you can't afford to split up? Unable to even afford keeping your car? Desperately trying to change your life, but too weak to actually go through with your plans? Or have you finally managed to leave that dysfunctional relationship?

You had an alternative lined up at least once, and you were simply too afraid. You were too scared of change to leave.

Do you think this diatribe is going to have desired effect? Or will it perhaps tell the audience more about you than about me?

That's not freedom. You have simply convinced yourself that you love your prison walls.

No, dude, you have nothing to teach me about freedom.

Hehe, okay.

Like I said, best of luck with your life.

Unidian wrote:Do you think this diatribe is going to have desired effect?

of proving that you have no idea what freedom is? Absolutely.

Like I said, best of luck with your life.

My life is quite good, thankyouverymuch.

And my life is improving steadily. Not materially or conventionally, of course, because I invest no effort in those areas. There's nothing there for me. Psychologically and spiritually, however, I've never been better. I still have a long way to go, of course, but I'm reasonably confident I can get there. My progress has been outstanding.

As I said in the other post, congratulations on your life, which is apparently quite successful with reference to your value system. I hope to someday achieve an equal measure of success with reference to my own value system. I'm sure you share that hope, since it will probably involve me becoming even more "pathetic" by conventional standards.

Talking to you has provided me some valuable insights and highlighted some areas I need to work on. For the record, some of your uglier remarks were fairly upsetting, so if that was your goal (which I assume it was), consider it achieved. No one has ever doubted that you are a master at knocking people down. Thing is, I'm always open to a little discomfort if it can be used for my own betterment. With any luck, your "help" will open a few psychological doors for me. In particular, I'm always keenly interested in finding ways to care less what society thinks of me. A vitriolic lambasting from someone who represents conventional values is always good for that. I still remember the discussion with Dan where you suggested that he and I could share a DSL line with "the other 99 indolent dickwads." That was a classic. :)

Anyway, I hope you've enjoyed attempting to trash me. It's been useful to me, and hopefully rewarding to you in some manner. I've had some egotistical fun with it, anyway. These arguments are a guilty indulgence.

Got to catch up with the other 99 indolent dickwads now. There's a meeting at the government home.

Enjoy.