GENIUS FORUMS

Sapius wrote:

Sue: That is plainly absurd. Emotion used for this purpose is done so consciously, as is the decision to make it your goal in the first place.

Thanks, Sue, but I simply wanted to clarify the definition of ‘emotional feelings’ in this context.

So, using ‘emotional feelings’ consciously, or lets say that being fully aware that it is necessarily a feminine trait, one can deliberately or knowingly use it for a different purpose. Is that right?

Yes, emotion used by conscious individuals to serve the goal of enlightenment, is perfectly acceptable. To use those same emotions for any other purpose is insane.

Sap: Strange… Once you know, you know; how can one have doubts reappearing again and again, and hence falling back, if one has already hacked through those doubts using reason?

Sue: There is nothing "strange" about ‘doubting’ - as it is the powerful examiner of thought. Without doubt there can be no philosophical progress towards certainty and Truth. And until you are perfectly enlightened, ‘doubting’ remains an important part of your thinking.

I’m kind of confused here, Sue. May be it is my lack of command over English. With such clarity of mind that you have, how did you gather that I was pointing to ‘doubting’ as being strange?

If you are cutting through those doubts using reason, yet still have not reached 100% certainty, you need to continue your doubting and reasoning.

What I find strange is how can doubts reappear IF they have been cleared, and one FALLS BACK, to climb up again?

If you are 100% certain about the Truth of something, then no, you will have no need to doubt it.

If you are not 100% certain about the truth of something, you will naturally fall into error. You then have to work hard by drawing yourself back up towards the Truth by using what you are 100% certain of, as a guide. This way, you slowly gain a deeper understanding about the truth of the thing in question. Then, if you keep at it, there is a greater chance that you will achieve 100% certainty about this as well.

For example: know cause and effect with 100% certainty and you possess the key which unlocks the truth about everything in the universe.

-
Sue

Yes, emotion used by conscious individuals to serve the goal of enlightenment, is perfectly acceptable.

But does that make emotional feelings any more masculine?

Sapius,

Are you implying that masculine minded people do not have emotions?

-
Sue

Sue Hindmarsh wrote:emotion used by conscious individuals to serve the goal of enlightenment, is perfectly acceptable. To use those same emotions for any other purpose is insane.

What about using emotions for motivation? for good health?

Positive feelings have been shown to have vast medical benefits.

Sue Hindmarsh wrote:Sapius,

Are you implying that masculine minded people do not have emotions?

-
Sue

No, not at all; I don't believe any mind can ever be free of femininity (emotional feelings) however masculine minded a person may claim to be. Emotional feelings remain a feminine trait irrelevant of a masculine minded person’s claim of consciously "using it" for any justified reason, for emotional feelings remain however.

Sapius,

You incorrectly identify emotion with one particular form of mind. By saying that all emotion is "feminine" you have made absurd its use by those people who are conscious. Emotion is used very differently by conscious people than it is by unconscious people. They are the same emotions, but when used for the sane purpose of understanding the nature of existence the effect is very much different than if you’d used those same emotions ‘insanely’ to win the heart of the girl of your dreams.

-
Sue

Elizabeth wrote:

Sue: emotion used by conscious individuals to serve the goal of enlightenment, is perfectly acceptable. To use those same emotions for any other purpose is insane.

What about using emotions for motivation? for good health?

Positive feelings have been shown to have vast medical benefits.

Using the emotions for any goal less than understanding Ultimate Reality is a waste of time. What use is “good health” when you are wallowing in the putrid muck of ignorance.

-
Sue

Sue Hindmarsh wrote:Using the emotions for any goal less than understanding Ultimate Reality is a waste of time. What use is “good health” when you are wallowing in the putrid muck of ignorance.

-
Sue

How can one experience any level of Ultimate Reality if they are poisoning themselves in a putrid body of poor health? What if it takes longer to get closer Ultimate Reality than a body of poor health could survive? If a person depresses their immune system by a lack of positive emotions, the person could develop cancer or die of an opportunistic infection decades before achieving a state of good understanding, and is no longer on this plane to spread Truth. What if a lack of positive emotions causes a person to realize that life isn't worth the effort and commits suicide?

Sue, my point is…

You incorrectly identify emotion with one particular form of mind.

Isn’t ‘emotional feelings’ itself a particular form of mind? I’d rather say a state of mind, because one cannot reason oneself into it; it’s the high value one places over something, be it logical, which creates strong emotional feelings towards it. For example say Truth.

By saying that all emotion is "feminine" you have made absurd its use by those people who are conscious.

It is the conscious minded people who define it as a “feminine” trait, so how does its nature change simply by its use by a conscious mind?

Emotion is used very differently by conscious people than it is by unconscious people. They are the same emotions, but when used for the sane purpose of understanding the nature of existence the effect is very much different than if you’d used those same emotions ‘insanely’ to win the heart of the girl of your dreams.

I agree that ‘emotional feelings’ may be, not used (that’s not the proper word I would say), but directed towards a particular conscious or an unconscious goal, but as you mention, they are the same emotions, so how is it any different in nature?

The question is; how does its basic nature change when (used) directed towards ‘logical or illogical’ purposes? It still remains ‘feminine’ in nature.

I believe it is the phobia against the word ‘feminine’ that the masculine minded people dread to associate with, otherwise it the strength of both that one needs, for it is logical that…

David: The best method is to cultivate a genuine love for truth/cause and effect. If you constantly treat it as though it were the most important thing on earth (which it is), if you become obsessive over it to the point of madness, and if you can cultivate strong emotional feelings towards it, then you are in a position to build up some momentum, which is the key to all spiritual success.

The strong emotional feelings for truth, and the obsessing over it the point of 'madness' sounds very feminine.

The great man treats truth like the mediocre man treats woman.

That is why I say woman is a metaphor for truth.

Beautiful until you come to understand it.

Cory wrote:

The great man treats truth like the mediocre man treats woman.

That’s funny; my father constantly says to me: you know son, I’ve spent my entire life trying to understand your mother and I still don’t have a clue, they are the mysterious sex alright, you just cant figure them out.

I've heard that spiel so many times I just feel like saying: yeah, you keep telling yourself that old boy -
...

...

...

jerk!

Ryan,

Yes, he obviously worked her out a long time ago, and found that the best way to continue living with her was to pretend that he didn't really know her. That way he gets to enjoy his life without having to take any responsibility for it.

It is the same with those people who say that the Truth can't be known - for what they are really saying is that as long as there is no Truth binding their lives, they can be free to do and think whatever they please, and nobody can say that they're doing anything wrong.


-
Sue

Using the emotions for any goal less than understanding Ultimate Reality is a waste of time. What use is “good health” when you are wallowing in the putrid muck of ignorance.

I think you're taking your notion of healthy self-motivation a bit too far.

A healthy brain leads to a healthy mind.

Steven Coyle wrote:What often disrupts my consciousness of truth is a lack of penetrating wisdom. When I apply knowledge of the illusory nature of the self, it doesn't always help the situation. But when I again realize that the self is an illusion, wisdom - almost in response to the conflict of conceptual "ego" and "non-ego" - springs forth. Its as if I need to remind the ego of its illusory nature, for wisdom to allow itself to operate.

What are your methods/observations for remaining conscious?

why are you conscious?
the "ugliness" that offends,what is it?

do you think there is a final wisdom?
how can anything end?
do you believe that spiritual desire is less fatal than the sensuous?

why are you conscious?
the "ugliness" that offends,what is it?

do you think there is a final wisdom?
how can anything end?
do you believe that spiritual desire is less fatal than the sensuous?

bert!

("of montreal" plays on the radio: title: "I was never young")

:)

Bam.

1. To uncover knowledge - to know myself, to help others.
2. My own unconsciousness.
3. To follow the Tao alone.
4. Of true emptiness you speak.
5.

Yeah.

I was born with a birth defect - pectus excavatus (without a sternum). It's "made me" abstain from the sensuous. At the moment, I still fear expressing myself, as an effect. But, the sea might have something to say about all this.

It's good to speak with you again, bert.

Steven Coyle wrote:

why are you conscious?
the "ugliness" that offends,what is it?

do you think there is a final wisdom?
how can anything end?
do you believe that spiritual desire is less fatal than the sensuous?

bert!
hi,steven

("of montreal" plays on the radio: title: "I was never young")

:)

Bam.
this is what I thought

1. To uncover knowledge - to know myself, to help others.
-this universe is daily destroyed,that's why!
2. My own unconsciousness.
-might it not be the vague knowledge that you will have to change your mind - exactly,that you germinate what you contain!don't we all remember what we forgot;this' the moment of reckoning and is to-day - by believing by force what you disbelieved?
3. To follow the Tao alone.
-your will to succeed towards a "supreme" is by a network of deadly desires because of the cowardice within you.namely,by some unsatisfied wisdom that seeks,and waits to suffer its evolutions.no final desire - no final wisdom.
4. Of true emptiness you speak.
-of your reality/my reality
5.

Yeah.

I was born with a birth defect - pectus excavatus (without a sternum). It's "made me" abstain from the sensuous. At the moment, I still fear expressing myself, as an effect. But, the sea might have something to say about all this.

-in point harmfulness/injuriousness spiritual desire is as fatal as the sensuous.

It's good to speak with you again, bert.
same here

Elizabeth wrote:

Sue: Using the emotions for any goal less than understanding Ultimate Reality is a waste of time. What use is “good health” when you are wallowing in the putrid muck of ignorance.

How can one experience any level of Ultimate Reality if they are poisoning themselves in a putrid body of poor health? What if it takes longer to get closer Ultimate Reality than a body of poor health could survive? If a person depresses their immune system by a lack of positive emotions, the person could develop cancer or die of an opportunistic infection decades before achieving a state of good understanding, and is no longer on this plane to spread Truth. What if a lack of positive emotions causes a person to realize that life isn't worth the effort and commits suicide?

Maintaining health and fitness, and emotional wellbeing, is nowadays considered all important. But what good are those things if your whole life is based on a lie? Better to first know the truth about life, and then work out how you’re going to live it.

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Sue

There's no good reason for a truth seeker to ignore health advice, so long as they are living the lie. Might as well live it well.

Here are some good tips which anyone can follow without wasting too much time: get to bed a little bit after it gets dark out. Eat when you're hungry, and eat balanced healthy meals. Get some light exercise everyday, such as walking in the morning and evening.

That should be no problem for any seeker.

Sue Hindmarsh wrote: Better to first know the truth about life, and then work out how you’re going to live it.

I think these things can be best achieved approximatly simultaneously. How can we know the truth about life if we are not healthy enough to recognize the truth when we find it?

It is true that getting all caught up in diet and exercise is either nonproductive or counterproductive, depending on how extreme one gets. I don't imagine that you are advocating the opposite extreme of someone trying to find truth through a fog of drugs and alcohol, but in recognizing that any extreme is illogical (let's skip the debate about "extremely logical" for the moment) we can go on to see that good health makes it easier to see the truth. Good balance is part of good health, as it is part of Truth.

Sue Hindmarsh wrote: Maintaining health and fitness, and emotional wellbeing, is nowadays considered all important. But what good are those things if your whole life is based on a lie?

Health and fitness are an insufficient replacement for Truth, they are only tools. I can not imagine true emotional well-being without living in Truth. If one's whole life is based on a lie, one's emotional well-being suffers, followed by one's health.

Think of it not quite like a ladder, but more like a gerbil wheel that actually goes somewhere in another plane of reality. You can get on at any part of the wheel, but what matters is which direction you go.

In one direction, each time you touch on a rung of Truth, good health, and emotional well-being, you get healthier (including emotionally) and filled with more Truth. There's a point where you can't get more Truth without getting healthier, and the more Truth you get, the more health you are rewarded with, which rewards you with more Truth.

In the other direction, the less heathy you become, the less emotionally well adjusted, the less Truth you see. Insufficient Truth is depressing, and depression leads to illness and to behaviors that lead to poor health, ultimately leading to a blindness to Truth.

Truth is healthy, so health is along the path to Truth.
.

sschaula wrote:There's no good reason for a truth seeker to ignore health advice, so long as they are living the lie. Might as well live it well.

Here are some good tips which anyone can follow without wasting too much time: get to bed a little bit after it gets dark out. Eat when you're hungry, and eat balanced healthy meals. Get some light exercise everyday, such as walking in the morning and evening.

That should be no problem for any seeker.

by subordinating animal instincts to reason you quickly lose control.
the animals that get trained in circuses,are they not trained by torture?and the animals that slay their master,are they not reared in love?
wise is he who nourishes and embraces all things,but doesn't act as master.only when the passions are ruled by outside environments can they become dangers.
when you leave things to work out their own salvation,is control - when we interfere,we become identified with and subject to their desire.
only by "becoming the desire",by love for the self,is there peace.there is no interfering,we have lost all,"we are" what we desire,we never obtain.there is nothing that you shall not realise when you desire nothing.desire is to make completion,the emotion that it is "all happiness",all wisdom,pure fucking harmony.
but then you believe,you are a liar and become identified with pain,did you but knew,pleasure and pain are one and the same.
revert to a simplicity even childhood hasn't obtained yet.

To realize that there is no such thing as "right" and "wrong" is to also be without desire - the two mind states complement each other interchangeably. Desire arises from an almost masochistic sense of shame, brought on by a need to pacify a wavering ego. In reality, there is nothing but the mind. You're a zero, divided into a one. (or 1/1). There's really only what is "good" and what is "bad" - and these adjectives become clearer once desire has been vanquished from the mind.

Steven Coyle wrote:You're a zero, divided into a one. (or 1/1).

If you're going to express something mathematically, please use correct math.

"You're a zero, divided into a one" would be expressed mathematically as: 1/0 but 1/0 is an undefined number. Mathematically, that could be a philosophically accurate statement as in "You are undefined."

"You're a zero" would be 0, which could be expressed a number of ways including 0/1

1/1=1

so by saying

Steven Coyle wrote:You're a zero, divided into a one. (or 1/1).

did you mean "you are nothing" or "you are undefined" or "you are one" or any combination of the above?

Ryan Rudolph wrote:


That’s funny; my father constantly says to me: you know son, I’ve spent my entire life trying to understand your mother and I still don’t have a clue, they are the mysterious sex alright, you just cant figure them out.

I've heard that spiel so many times I just feel like saying: yeah, you keep telling yourself that old boy -
...

...

...

jerk!

That reminds me of a book my friend's father had in the bathroom at his house called 'Everything Men Know About Women.' All of the pages were blank.

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:

Steven Coyle wrote:You're a zero, divided into a one. (or 1/1).

If you're going to express something mathematically, please use correct math.

"You're a zero, divided into a one" would be expressed mathematically as: 1/0 but 1/0 is an undefined number. Mathematically, that could be a philosophically accurate statement as in "You are undefined."

"You're a zero" would be 0, which could be expressed a number of ways including 0/1

1/1=1

so by saying

Steven Coyle wrote:You're a zero, divided into a one. (or 1/1).

did you mean "you are nothing" or "you are undefined" or "you are one" or any combination of the above?

I was being clever. :(

Testing the reader's ego. :)

Ultimately what I was trying to get across was that in reality causality governs the universe - leading to the notion of an illusory self (represented here as a zero). And at the same time, causality implies that all is interconnected.

Didn't mean to be tricky.

Thank you for the clarification. :)