The Basic Argument

Dan Rowden · Post by **Dan Rowden** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:26 am

Animus wrote:Yea, for some reason I can't get Windows Movie Maker installed, the Microsoft Download site only provides Windows Vista downloads. I just bought Windows XP too, but even with SP 2 I can't get Movie Maker from the Add Windows Components dialog.

Hmm, I would have thought it was part of the default installation (always has been for me), but, anyway, the software you're using is way better.

Animus · Post by **Animus** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:47 am

Sorry, man, I spent a while elaborating on this, but after I hit submit the page asked me to login and I lost what I wrote. I might come back to it later.

guest_of_logic wrote:
Animus wrote:See where I'm going with that?
Yes, I do, but without your explanation, the quotes on their own didn't lead me to that understanding. I mean, the anthropomorphisation is there in them, plain to see. If you want the viewer to see that anthropomorphism as symbolic, then you need to explain that symbolism first, but you didn't do so in the video. Here's the biggest example of why your interpretation doesn't naturally occur to the viewer: the end of the Romans 8:6-8 quotation that you provide is "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God". Now something that can be (dis)pleased is anthropomorphic, and I find it hard to see how this sentence can be interpreted in the way that you want us to interpret it - i.e. where God is an impersonal symbol for reality. I'm sure that you could find a way, all I'm saying is that it's not the interpretation that naturally occurs to the viewer, so if that's the one that you want us to take away from the quotations that you provide, then you need to build a case for it.

I want to add that I did get out of a lot of your quotes that parts of the Bible suggest that man's "free" will is actually determined or forced by God, so I don't think that you need to add a great deal of commentary there, but it would be useful to provide at least some IMO.

[reordered]
Animus wrote:That the point of the text was to deceive with parables and similtudes, while simultaneously providing a key (Parable of the Sower, etc..) to understanding that it's not all about Fantasitical nonsense.
Hmm. You sound a bit like Kevin, who interprets the Bible in the light of his own philosophy. I agree that the Bible is open to some degree of interpretation, but I strongly disagree that your radically unconventional interpretation can reasonably be described as "the point of the text". It's pretty clear to me that much of the Bible is intended to be taken literally, as - in the case of the Old Testament - the historical record of the acts of a veangeful, wrathful, violent, warlike, worship-demanding anthropomorphic deity in relation to His creation and His chosen people, and - in the case of the New Testament - as the historical record of both the literal saviour of mankind and the early community of believers which sprung up after the death and resurrection of that saviour. I have no objection to you (or Kevin) taking what you want from the Bible, and unconventionally reinterpreting it as symbolic, but I do object to you (or Kevin, although I don't think that he actually does make this claim: as I understand it he actually maintains that there is no objective way to interpret the Bible, and that any individual person's interpretation of it is simply more or less "wise" than any other person's interpretation) claiming that your unconventional interpretation is "the point of the text", as though you had found the "real" meaning, rather than what I believe that you are actually doing, which is trying to salvage something true and meaningful out of what I can only describe as a gigantic, contradictory, unbelievable and at times ridiculous mess.

Animus · Post by **Animus** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:58 am

True, but its not like I had the money for it either....

Yea, I don't know what happened to Movie Maker, I tried to get it installed for a day and got nowhere with it. And this is a legitimate copy of Windows XP I paid some $150 for. The pirated copy I have has Windows Movie Maker on it with no issues. This going legit thing is more trouble than I thought it'd be. I thought if I bought all my software legitimately I could avoid the dreaded virus-laden torrents, but then I find I have 10x as many issues with installing and running the legit copies.

Then again, I guess its not all about me. I'm sure I could string something together with MS Paint...

Dan Rowden wrote:
Animus wrote:Yea, for some reason I can't get Windows Movie Maker installed, the Microsoft Download site only provides Windows Vista downloads. I just bought Windows XP too, but even with SP 2 I can't get Movie Maker from the Add Windows Components dialog.
Hmm, I would have thought it was part of the default installation (always has been for me), but, anyway, the software you're using is way better.

brokenhead · Post by **brokenhead** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:24 pm

Animus wrote:This going legit thing is more trouble than I thought it'd be. I thought if I bought all my software legitimately I could avoid the dreaded virus-laden torrents, but then I find I have 10x as many issues with installing and running the legit copies.

Torrents are usually not virus-laden. Your AV software may identify the cracks or keygens of a download as a virus. When that happens, you simply turn off your AV during the install and subsequent use of the crack or keygen.

Because of the very thing you observe here, Animus, about legit copies, I always do the torrent thing first to find out which program I want and how to use it and only when I am satisfied will I shell out the money for a license.

Animus · Post by **Animus** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:45 pm

lol, well I generally don't have AV software running. I just get lucky with the torrents I guess. Last time I downloaded "Left 4 Dead" and had to format my hard-drive. Now if I really need something, I check if thepiratebay has it because they seem to be virus free.

brokenhead wrote:
Animus wrote:This going legit thing is more trouble than I thought it'd be. I thought if I bought all my software legitimately I could avoid the dreaded virus-laden torrents, but then I find I have 10x as many issues with installing and running the legit copies.
Torrents are usually not virus-laden. Your AV software may identify the cracks or keygens of a download as a virus. When that happens, you simply turn off your AV during the install and subsequent use of the crack or keygen.

Because of the very thing you observe here, Animus, about legit copies, I always do the torrent thing first to find out which program I want and how to use it and only when I am satisfied will I shell out the money for a license.

brokenhead · Post by **brokenhead** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:22 am

Animus wrote:lol, well I generally don't have AV software running. I just get lucky with the torrents I guess. Last time I downloaded "Left 4 Dead" and had to format my hard-drive. Now if I really need something, I check if thepiratebay has it because they seem to be virus free.

Not to be a nudnik, but you really must run an AV program, preferably one that has real-time monitoring, usually called something like "active shield." AVG free version seems to be the best freeware option. I liked my pirated version of Zone Alarm, but after it is on you system for a while, it slows down shutdown and booting. AVG free has a smaller footprint, but lifetime virus signature updates on a regular basis. It does the trick.

For torrent sites, I always start with isohunt. It will search most of the torrent sites, including thepiratebay. The single site with the best results for me has been demonoid.com. There may be a waiting list for membership, but registration is free.

You do have a firewall, right?

Seriously, you should not even be connected to any network, let alone the Internet, without a robust AV program. Then when you DL any software, just make sure you manually run the AV scan on the files if the program does not have the real-time feature. Any very large set-up programs, such as MS Office apps, are best installed with your AV utility off.

Having to format a HD and reinstall the OS ages you prematurely. Try to avoid it!

Dan Rowden · Post by **Dan Rowden** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:55 pm

brokenhead wrote:Torrents are usually not virus-laden. Your AV software may identify the cracks or keygens of a download as a virus. When that happens, you simply turn off your AV during the install and subsequent use of the crack or keygen.

Well, I just downloaded a torrent from Demonoid and AVG tells me the .exe file (installation file) contains Trojan Downloader Agent AKVZ. Now what? Did I just waste 420meg of my download limit?

[edit: actually the torrent file came from Mininova, not Demonoid]

Animus · Post by **Animus** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:07 pm

Dan Rowden wrote:
brokenhead wrote:Torrents are usually not virus-laden. Your AV software may identify the cracks or keygens of a download as a virus. When that happens, you simply turn off your AV during the install and subsequent use of the crack or keygen.
Well, I just downloaded a torrent from Demonoid and AVG tells me the .exe file (installation file) contains Trojan Downloader Agent AKVZ. Now what? Did I just waste 420meg of my download limit?

[edit: actually the torrent file came from Mininova, not Demonoid]

Download limit?!?!?!?

Sounds like it to me!

If you set up VMWare you might run the app in a protected environment and see if it causes any problems.

brokenhead · Post by **brokenhead** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:06 pm

Dan Rowden wrote:
brokenhead wrote:Torrents are usually not virus-laden. Your AV software may identify the cracks or keygens of a download as a virus. When that happens, you simply turn off your AV during the install and subsequent use of the crack or keygen.
Well, I just downloaded a torrent from Demonoid and AVG tells me the .exe file (installation file) contains Trojan Downloader Agent AKVZ. Now what? Did I just waste 420meg of my download limit?

[edit: actually the torrent file came from Mininova, not Demonoid]

Dan, I wouldn't risk the install. I just googled Trojan Downloader Agent AKVZ. It looks familiar. If you do enough downloading, these things show up - they are bots that will persistently download spy-ware and malware onto a PC and your anti-spyware utility might not be able to get rid of it. It won't crash your system or destroy files, but it invades privacy and slows things down. This particular little bastard looks as if it is not too hard to remove manually, but if that sort of thing is a pain in the ass for you, it is really not worth it.

Animus suggested a VMWare session, but that entails downloading and installing VMWare if you don't already have it.

What I would do is look for another (different) torrent of the program you want to use. If download limit is an issue, and you want to risk installing the torrent you already have, make sure to create a restore point for your system beforehand and disable AVG before running the setup. Then, when you are finished, google Trojan Downloader Agent AKVZ for instructions on how to remove it manually.

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