Modern entertainment

Kevin Solway · Post by **Kevin Solway** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:12 pm

Films made today pale against cinema classics of the past because they lack dialogue, character and plot, according to Michael Caine.

Too many good films 'for people who understand dialogue', were being sent straight to DVD or TV rather than to theatrical release in the assumption that no one would want to see them, he said

Interesting observation, I think.

Diebert van Rhijn · Post by **Diebert van Rhijn** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:13 pm

Yes.

Culture itself seems to revolve more and more these days around images and this trend can be witnessed in the cinema as well. Very highly technical cinematographic panning and shots somehow replaced much of the dialogue and character of older movies. It's as if the subconscious of the current movie-centered generation demands a more raw primitive discourse via the visual cortex: flashy action, lots of movement, large scale panorama's and lots of over-acting.

Might also be related by people growing up with TV, where many stations try to be as exciting as possible with changing camera positions and stories all the time, combined with commercials - breaking down attention spans even further.

It seems to me movies have become very advanced in technique while becoming way more primitive in what is addressed in the audience.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:26 pm

There are some movies with good dialogue, but what I find missing a lot of the time is a good story. Nowadays we have plotlines instead of stories. There aren't really anymore epic type films.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:16 am

I'm not a huge movie buff, but V for Vendetta was a movie with inspiring dialogue and good visual effects. Great movie for this time period. Dissapointingly, I think most people missed the point of the movie.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:45 am

What was the point?

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:58 am

sschaula wrote:What was the point?

The point was, as F.D.R. put it, "There's nothing to fear, but fear itself". Because once you start to fear something you allow yourself to be manipulted and taken advantage of. You become a prisoner of fear. Which is what was happening to the citzens in the movie. Rather than focussing on that aspect of the conflict, I think most people focused on the whether V was a terrorist or a stand up man of the people, and if his actions were justified.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:41 am

Ah I see.

Kelly Jones · Post by **Kelly Jones** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:12 pm

ksolway wrote:
Films made today pale against cinema classics of the past because they lack dialogue, character and plot, according to Michael Caine.

Too many good films 'for people who understand dialogue', were being sent straight to DVD or TV rather than to theatrical release in the assumption that no one would want to see them, he said
Interesting observation, I think.

When the education system is oriented to full-time employment, people don't have the luxury of exploring life freely. Urges to embark on wild thinking sprees are branded "useless", so the ability to express ideas never grows, and personalities are stunted.

Perhaps someone should produce a series of historical films about evil mothers, depressed fathers, abused children, and free and light-spirited hobos and gypsies. Another series could be of high achievers who didn't care about being health, longevity, and ease.

.

Tomas · Post by **Tomas** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:29 pm

Michael Caine is a Free Mason. He is, a 32nd Degree.

Tomas (the tank)

Prince of Jerusalem
16th Degree
Scottish Rite Free Mason

Matt Gregory · Post by **Matt Gregory** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:12 pm

What do Free Masons do?

Dan Rowden · Post by **Dan Rowden** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:12 pm

They conspire with the Illuminati to rule the planet. Geez, Matt, don't you know nothin'?

Blair · Post by **Blair** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:48 pm

Of the many films I have seen, there is at least one modern one that is significant, from a philosophical point of view;

Vanilla Sky, (a far superior 'Hollywood' remake of the Spanish film Abre Los Ojos - "Open your eyes" )

Cory Duchesne · Post by **Cory Duchesne** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:47 am

Anyone want to share with me some names of films that have had a powerful effect on you?

Last great movie I saw was kind of light: Crimes and Misdemeanors by Woody allen - but it was hillarious and insightful.

What else.....

Persona - Ingmar Bergman
My Dinner with Andre
Rashomon (1950) - Akira kurosawa
Rebel without a Cause
Paradise Lost: the child murders of Robin hood hills
Brothers keeper
Flight frome death: the quest for immortality
Happiness
Welcome to the doll house
Grizzly man

Those films I listed were probably the most challenging, subtle, darkly humorous and harrowing of all the films I've ever watched - which is what I look for in film, philosophy and books.

By the way, has anyone here actually seen the documentaries 'paradise lost' or 'brothers keeper'?

Those two movies (especially PL) had to be the most powerful, truthful and disturbing movies I've ever seen.

Greg Shantz · Post by **Greg Shantz** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:42 am

My three favourite movies of the year thus far are:

CachÃ©
The Sun
Miami Vice

I was talking with an accquaintance a while ago who said that this generation wants to see movies with special effects rather than good acting or story. I agreed with him.

David Quinn · Post by **David Quinn** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:17 pm

One can see Michael Caine's point nicely illustrated in the recent version of "Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy". The original TV series and books back in the early eighties were very much dialogue-driven. The humour and insights, of which there were many, were all generated out of the dialogues (and monologues) and witty word-play.

Fast forward to the 21st century and the release of the movie version last year, and we see that most of the witty dialogue has been expunged, everything has been dumbed down, special effects have been brought to the fore, and it is the biggest pile of crap imaginable. Did well at the box office, though.

-

Matt Gregory · Post by **Matt Gregory** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:54 pm

drowden wrote:They conspire with the Illuminati to rule the planet. Geez, Matt, don't you know nothin'?

Did you notice how quiet Tomas got when I asked that?

Tomas · Post by **Tomas** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:46 am

-Gregory writes- Did you notice how quiet Tomas got when I asked that?

-Tomas- No, it isn't that at all .. What is it that you would like to know that Free Masons do? Please be a bit more specific.
Don't have a helluva lot of time to answer someone who asked a simplistic question Wednesday PM and turn around with a simplistic answer on Friday AM.
Dan's answer, is somewhat correct in that the (all-knowing) Illuminati - and of some degrees of higher-ranking Masons anyways, have some influence with the political/religious/social organizations.
There are movers and shakers in most every endeavor.
Attaining my degree has/(had) allowed me to move in different circles that i wouldn't otherwise have been to be enter.

Just an old political mover and shaker, that's in the past though.

What do they do? - what are you asking?

BTW - I own and operate a business - i work for a living. You may not get a response for a day, two or three days. :-|

Tomas (the tank)
VietNam veteran - 1971

Matt Gregory · Post by **Matt Gregory** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:01 am

I was just joking around, Tomas. I'm sure some of them do have influence here and there, but I doubt there's a huge conspiracy. A huge bureaucracy...now that's something I can believe.

I was just wondering if it was like a church, or do they have cocktail parties or watch porn flicks or what.

GrandInquisitor · Post by **GrandInquisitor** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:30 am

Last great movie I saw was kind of light: Crimes and Misdemeanors by Woody allen - but it was hillarious and insightful.

What else.....

Persona - Ingmar Bergman
My Dinner with Andre
Rashomon (1950) - Akira kurosawa
Rebel without a Cause
Paradise Lost: the child murders of Robin hood hills
Brothers keeper
Flight frome death: the quest for immortality
Happiness
Welcome to the doll house
Grizzly man

Well, Cory this is a first time I have to agree with you, exelent choice, for the first time I am happy to be here.

sue hindmarsh · Post by **sue hindmarsh** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:57 pm

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:

Culture itself seems to revolve more and more these days around images and this trend can be witnessed in the cinema as well. Very highly technical cinematographic panning and shots somehow replaced much of the dialogue and character of older movies. It's as if the subconscious of the current movie-centered generation demands a more raw primitive discourse via the visual cortex: flashy action, lots of movement, large scale panorama's and lots of over-acting.

I recently watched a few silent films and I noticed the similarity between them and modern films. They of course relied heavily on action and extreme over-acting, with minimal dialog posted in between the action to explain the plot and characters. The popularity of these films relied on creating escapism for the cinema patron who numbered mostly from the poorer to middle-classes. The richer classes found their entertainment in plays, musicals, concerts and operas.

Though I found this correlation between silent and modern films, it must be said that silent films are greater works of art than anything you see today though both were/are aimed at the masses. Show an audience an old Charlie Chaplin silent film when theyâ€™ve come to see Scary Movie 4, and youâ€™ll have an uproar on your hands.

Might also be related by people growing up with TV, where many stations try to be as exciting as possible with changing camera positions and stories all the time, combined
with commercials - breaking down attention spans even further.

It seems to me movies have become very advanced in technique while becoming way more primitive in what is addressed in the audience.

Yes, modern films have to compete with not only TV, but also cable TV, Internet and computer games. With such a lot of visual entertainment to choose from, movie produces have to create products that appeals to an audience that is constantly hungry for â€˜more of the sameâ€™. Often people 40 years old and up, who grew up with a combination of TV, film and literature tend to be more interested and willing to see films that have both complicated plots and characters, and do not depend upon a prior interest in the subject matter. For example: Art House cinemas depend heavily on the patronage of the mature aged, as this age group tend to be more open to new experiences. This could be because of their past education and experiences, or maybe it is just something that takes place upon entering those more mature years â€“ though, from watching my nieces and nephews who range from 12-32 grow up, I donâ€™t hold much hope for the future of movies, as these young people are extremely conservative and illiterate, which makes them very closed off to new experiences.

-
Sue

Cory Duchesne · Post by **Cory Duchesne** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:34 pm

Grandinquisitor wrote:

Well, Cory this is a first time I have to agree with you, excellent choice, for the first time I am happy to be here.

I just watched: l'enfant

one of those movies that depicts the human condition so well that all desire to breed is blissfully anulled via eye-watering yet oddly relieving cartharsis.

What other films have had that effect on me?

All or Nothing - (mike leigh)
Eve's Bayou - (samuel L Jackson)
My flesh and blood (documentary)
Sweet Sixteen - (ken loach)
Bully
L.I.E.
Thirteen
Running on Empty & My own private idaho (river phoenix)
Tsotsi

As for comedy:

I just watched a few episodes of 'curb your enthusiasm' for the first time. (shown only on HBO).

I rented season 1 on dvd - hillarious show

There is a documentary called: "american movie" and it will surely make you laugh.

Do you have any recomendations G.I?

Cory Duchesne · Post by **Cory Duchesne** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:42 pm

Oh yeah:

'City of God' & 'pixote'

both those films are set in brazilian cities and are by far the most devestating yet powerful movies I've ever seen.

Oh yeah, woody allens latest movie: "match point" is very good, but doesnt go as deep as I'd like to see woody go.

Kevin Solway · Post by **Kevin Solway** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:05 pm

For comedies with good dialogues I recommend:

"Spaced"

"The Norman Conquests" (with Tom Conti)

"Coupling"

"Just Good Friends"

Cory Duchesne · Post by **Cory Duchesne** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:43 am

Allen's latest film doesnt go as deep as I'd like to see woody go.

ah, an unintentional pun

--------------------------------------------------------

I'll be sure to check out those comedies Kevin.

Hey, has anyone here seen Martin Scorceses 'the last temptation of christ' ?

I thought it was the most interesting film I've ever seen done on Jesus. It was considered very heretical and polemical when it was first released - - however, its too bad that Jesus was still portrayed as a man able to literally raise the dead and turn water into wine. I was dispointed by that element.

But it definitely was an offensive movie to the most bigotted of Christians - and overall I found it to be one of the more and unusual and interesting films I've ever seen.

Anyone know of any good movies on Jesus?

Oh yeah - a comedy you all might like:

I 'heart' huckabees (staring Jude Law, dustin hoffman and Mark Wahlberg)

Kind of satirizes environmentalists, and super-enthusiastic 'what the bleep to we know' sort of intellectualism.

Ryan Rudolph · Post by **Ryan Rudolph** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:09 am

The three worst films of all time that I recommend everyone go see purely for the psychoanalysis gained:

1. Reign of Fire â€“ worst defiance of casuality/natural science and psychology ever displayed on a moving picture.
2. Rambo 2 â€“ illustrates manâ€™s obsession with military heroism/superman and also depicts the dominant American/Capitalist perspective for that time period â€“ hatred/fear of communism.
3. Domino â€“ you may not get through this one â€“ worst display of egotism Iâ€™ve ever witnessed.

CPâ€™s Badness Rating:

1. Reign of Fire is so bad you will laugh out loud, it is actually quite enjoyable.

2. Rambo 2 is a genuine psychological case study for that time period.

3. Domino is so bad you will want to shut the TV off immediately and go straight to bed; it would take courage to get through this entire film.

Rotten Tomatoes Reviews:

Reign of Fire â€“ 42% Rotten Rating
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/reign_of_fire/

Rambo 2 â€“ 29% Rotten Rating
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/rambo_first_blood_pt_2/

Domino â€“ 17% Rotten Rating
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/domino/

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