GENIUS FORUMS

rodgertutt wrote:
What I do claim is that a literally (not interpretively) translated Bible is divinely inspired.

So do you claim to be enlightened?

Glostik91 wrote:

rodgertutt wrote:
What I do claim is that a literally (not interpretively) translated Bible is divinely inspired.

So do you claim to be enlightened?

I claim to be enlightened about the wrongness of the KJV and similar versions of the Bible.

THE KING JAMES AND SIMILAR VERSIONS ARE WRONG

My name is Rodger Tutt. I am 70 years old. I could have avoided a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78), had I known as a youth about the following information concerning what a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches.

You can access my website through Google by typing in hope4you Rodger Tutt, or my website is http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/

Many assume that the KJV they have is the same one as published in 1611. But during the three years after 1611 there were 14 minor revisions. Then more important changes were made to the KJV in 1629, 1638, 1762, and 1769.
King James told his board of translators not to deviate from the Bishop’s Bible instead of just using the Greek text when translating. The Bishop’s Bible had already been translated interpretively instead of literally as it should have been.
In the preface to the earlier revisions the board of translators wrote this message.
“The whole history of Bible translation in any language is a history of repeated revision and correction.”

All of the following urls prove that the present day KJV version and other similar Bibles are wrongly translated.

If necessary copy and paste the following urls into the address bar.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/jesus ... nhell.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/lists/BibleStudyTips.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew5/D5-Ki ... round.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/KJV.htm
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/PowerOfL ... rWord.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter14.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/K ... ersion.htm
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/Etern ... ained.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter2.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew3/D3-BookReview.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/b ... lation.htm
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter13.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/tracts/DoesForeverS.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/ifhel ... ntable.htm
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/ifhellisreal.htm
http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/forever_eternity.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/tracts/ShortOneAion.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/Etern ... ofGod.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/Retur ... Power.html

rodgertutt wrote: I claim to be enlightened about the wrongness of the KJV and similar versions of the Bible.

So you do claim enlightenment. Does that mean I am delusional?

Glostik91 wrote:

rodgertutt wrote: I claim to be enlightened about the wrongness of the KJV and similar versions of the Bible.

So you do claim enlightenment. Does that mean I am delusional?

I would say you are simply not aware of the truth.

CORRECTLY TRANSLATED BIBLES

One of the important tools for believing that the Bible teaches universal
reconciliation is to use a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible. Here
are several. The ones on line you don't even have to pay for.

CORRECT TRANSLATIONS ONLINE

CONCORDANT http://www.concordant.org/about/index.html
http://www.concordant.org/version/index.html
YOUNG'S LITERAL http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/rylt/rylt.html

OTHER CORRECT TRANSLATIONS NOT ONLINE LISTED AT THE FOLLOWING THREE LINKS
http://www.members.cox.net/tmurr10/aswundivided.html#10
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/Hell_ ... rever.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html

Or, if the links don't work, copy and paste into Google any of the following three titles

Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment

Chapter Ten - Bibles Without "Everlasting Punishment"

Hell is leaving the Bible forever

I think the Concordant Literal Translation is the most accurate.
Of the versions not online I like ROTHERHAM'S EMPHASIZED BIBLE the best.

Four scriptural expositions expounding UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION are found at

http://concordant.org/expohtml/HumanDestiny/doubts.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/HumanDestiny/1cor15.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/index.html
http://gtft.org/Library/condon/Question ... nswers.htm

Regarding the most common argument that the same word for "punishment" is also used for "life" see the following:
http://www.savior-of-all.com/aionian.html

All three of these articles should be studied with care, especially the third one.

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon1.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon2.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon3.html
also see:
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/aion.html
http://concordant.org/version/tranprin.html

.


-rodger-
I claim to be enlightened about the wrongness of the KJV and similar versions of the Bible.

-tomas-
Yes, KJV is a nasty adulterated version of reality.

rodgertutt wrote: I would say you are simply not aware of the truth.

The definition of delude is to deceive or mislead the mind or judgments of someone. Would the word delude describe what I believe and teach?

Glostik, I don't understand why you care what I think if you are sure you are right?

I found this article by Gary Amirault to be very helpful.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html

In his introduction he says
"When it comes to the final destination of the wicked, or unrighteous, Christians over the past two millenniums have divided themselves into three beliefs: 1. Eternal Torment, 2. Eternal Death (Annihilationism), and 3. Salvation of the whole world through Jesus Christ. Each of these views can be supported with Scriptures. Having been in all three groups, I know that there are sincere Bible centered believers in all of them. Obviously, all three cannot be true. Two of them have to be false."

rodgertutt wrote:Glostik, I don't understand why you care what I think if you are sure you are right?

I found this article by Gary Amirault to be very helpful.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html

In his introduction he says
"When it comes to the final destination of the wicked, or unrighteous, Christians over the past two millenniums have divided themselves into three beliefs: 1. Eternal Torment, 2. Eternal Death (Annihilationism), and 3. Salvation of the whole world through Jesus Christ. Each of these views can be supported with Scriptures. Having been in all three groups, I know that there are sincere Bible centered believers in all of them. Obviously, all three cannot be true. Two of them have to be false."

Only one of us can be right. Isn't it my job to discover which? I do not wish to give you any words of wisdom because God told me I shouldn't. I merely wish to see where this concept will lead us.

Glostik91 wrote:

rodgertutt wrote:Glostik, I don't understand why you care what I think if you are sure you are right?

I found this article by Gary Amirault to be very helpful.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html

In his introduction he says
"When it comes to the final destination of the wicked, or unrighteous, Christians over the past two millenniums have divided themselves into three beliefs: 1. Eternal Torment, 2. Eternal Death (Annihilationism), and 3. Salvation of the whole world through Jesus Christ. Each of these views can be supported with Scriptures. Having been in all three groups, I know that there are sincere Bible centered believers in all of them. Obviously, all three cannot be true. Two of them have to be false."

Only one of us can be right. Isn't it my job to discover which? I do not wish to give you any words of wisdom because God told me I shouldn't. I merely wish to see where this concept will lead us.

The strongest sets of influence will always dictate what we choose to believe.
Obviously, the frame of reference of the strongest influences in the lives of you and me are very different.
So be it.
Like I said before, you are welcome to believe anything you want to believe about what the Bible teaches.
Everyone else does.

rodgertutt wrote: The strongest sets of influence will always dictate what we choose to believe.
Obviously, the frame of reference of the strongest influences in the lives of you and me are very different.
So be it.
Like I said before, you are welcome to believe anything you want to believe about what the Bible teaches.
Everyone else does.

I assume you believe it doesn't matter what anyone believes because everyone will eventually go to Heaven regardless, but since I'm delusional why would Jesus allow me to be delusional in the first place if Jesus' priority is love?

Glostik91 wrote:

rodgertutt wrote: The strongest sets of influence will always dictate what we choose to believe.
Obviously, the frame of reference of the strongest influences in the lives of you and me are very different.
So be it.
Like I said before, you are welcome to believe anything you want to believe about what the Bible teaches.
Everyone else does.

I assume you believe it doesn't matter what anyone believes because everyone will eventually go to Heaven regardless, but since I'm delusional why would Jesus allow me to be delusional in the first place if Jesus' priority is love?

Everyone will believe what God wants them to believe when He wants them to believe it.
Like my hero Ray Prinzing said, "God chooses the false cult that He wants each person to be involved in, and He also chooses how long that person will stay in that false cult to teach them the lessons that He wants them to learn."
Very few Christian actually believe Ephesians 1:11 "God works ALL things after the councel of His own will."

rodgertutt wrote: Everyone will believe what God wants them to believe when He wants them to believe it.
Like my hero Ray Prinzing said, "God chooses the false cult that He wants each person to be involved in, and He also chooses how long that person will stay in that false cult to teach them the lessons that He wants them to learn."
Very few Christian actually believe Ephesians 1:11 "God works ALL things after the councel of His own will."

Is the Father omniscient?

Before you answer I'll ask another question, does the Father know what it feels like to be under a delusion or in sin?

Glostik91 wrote:

rodgertutt wrote: Everyone will believe what God wants them to believe when He wants them to believe it.
Like my hero Ray Prinzing said, "God chooses the false cult that He wants each person to be involved in, and He also chooses how long that person will stay in that false cult to teach them the lessons that He wants them to learn."
Very few Christian actually believe Ephesians 1:11 "God works ALL things after the councel of His own will."

Is the Father omniscient?

Before you answer I'll ask another question, does the Father know what it feels like to be under a delusion or in sin?

To me your question is irrelevant.
I have a Father Who is in intimate sovereign control over all strongest influences, and because of what Christ accomplished for us all by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, He will eventually transform all of the temporary negative consequences of our responses to strongest influences into something better that they temporarily prevailed as He fits each person into His master plan in their own unique way.
And He will eventually do this for every fallen creature without exception.
http://www.godfire.net/eby/restitution.html

rodgertutt wrote:

Glostik91 wrote:

rodgertutt wrote: Everyone will believe what God wants them to believe when He wants them to believe it.
Like my hero Ray Prinzing said, "God chooses the false cult that He wants each person to be involved in, and He also chooses how long that person will stay in that false cult to teach them the lessons that He wants them to learn."
Very few Christian actually believe Ephesians 1:11 "God works ALL things after the councel of His own will."

Is the Father omniscient?

Before you answer I'll ask another question, does the Father know what it feels like to be under a delusion or in sin?

To me your question is irrelevant.
I have a Father Who is in intimate sovereign control over all strongest influences, and because of what Christ accomplished for us all by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, He will eventually transform all of the temporary negative consequences of our responses to strongest influences into something better that they temporarily prevailed as He fits each person into His master plan in their own unique way.
And He will eventually do this for every fallen creature without exception.
http://www.godfire.net/eby/restitution.html

So your god isn't omniscient. You are an idolater. Do you have any proof that you are not an idolater?

Glostik91 wrote:So your god isn't omniscient. You are an idolater. Do you have any proof that you are not an idolater?

So far as I know, it is impossible to prove a negative. Would you like to rephrase the question?

Yes, my God is all-knowing (omniscient).

What I do have proof of is that the Bible correctly (literally not interpretively) translated teaches universal salvation.

Here is a fifteen chapter exposition on how the Bible teaches universal salvation.
THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... /index.htm
or
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html

rodgertutt wrote:Yes, my God is all-knowing (omniscient).

What I do have proof of is that the Bible correctly (literally not interpretively) translated teaches universal salvation.

Here is a fifteen chapter exposition on how the Bible teaches universal salvation.
THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... /index.htm
or
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html

Does God know what its like to sin?

Glostik91 wrote:

rodgertutt wrote:Yes, my God is all-knowing (omniscient).

What I do have proof of is that the Bible correctly (literally not interpretively) translated teaches universal salvation.

Here is a fifteen chapter exposition on how the Bible teaches universal salvation.
THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... /index.htm
or
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html

Does God know what its like to sin?

God is responsible for all sinning.
But by being responsible for it He Himself does not sin.
In fact God cannot sin.
When sin and suffering has taught all the lessons that God wants His fallen creatures to learn from their temporary prevalence, He will then eradicate them both from existence.
THE PROBLEM OF EVIL – John Essex
AND THE ROLE OF THE ADVERSARY – James Webb
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/TheProblemofEvil.html

rodgertutt wrote:

Glostik91 wrote:

rodgertutt wrote:Yes, my God is all-knowing (omniscient).

What I do have proof of is that the Bible correctly (literally not interpretively) translated teaches universal salvation.

Here is a fifteen chapter exposition on how the Bible teaches universal salvation.
THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... /index.htm
or
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html

Does God know what its like to sin?

God is responsible for all sinning.
But by being responsible for it He Himself does not sin.
In fact God cannot sin.
When sin and suffering has taught all the lessons that God wants His fallen creatures to learn from their temporary prevalence, He will then eradicate them both from existence.
THE PROBLEM OF EVIL – John Essex
AND THE ROLE OF THE ADVERSARY – James Webb
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/TheProblemofEvil.html

If I am a part of God and I sin did God sin?

Before you answer I want to ask something else. Is Jesus omniscient?

I post on forums for one reason, and one reason only; and that one reason does not include playing the question and answer game.
That one reason is to direct people who might be interested to the evidence that I have found that the Bible correctly (literally not interpretively) translated does not teach that God will let anyone suffer forever.
All other issues are infinitely secondary to me.

Like I said before, anyone is welcome to believe anything they want to about what the Bible teaches.
I’m just so glad that I learned about the following information!!

People who can love an “eternal torment” or “annihilationist” god will not be interested in the following information

Copy and paste the following into Google.

THE LAW OF CIRCULARITY
http://www.godfire.net/eby/circularity.html

But people who cannot love an “eternal torment” or “annihilationist” god will
discover that all of the arguments against the Bible teaching universal salvation have been refuted in the following links.

Copy and paste one of the following titles into Google

THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... /index.htm

ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
http://www.sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm

BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThr ... ained.html

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/index.html

INFORMATION ON HELL AND UNIVERSAL SALVATION
http://www.tentmaker.org/bloglinks.htm

UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html

THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

THE SCHOLARS CORNER THE CENTER FOR BIBLE STUDIES
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

Also Google up TENTMAKER and at the top of the front page type a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage into the search engine. Ten articles will come up refuting the claim that the Bible teaches eternal torment or annihilation. Then click to the next page and ten more articles will come up, and so on and so on for many pages.
The link to TENTMAKER is
http://www.tentmaker.org/

Then leave. Your work is done.

Glostik, you are a psychopath with a psychopathic god. Just thought you should know.

BTW, kudos to rodger for trying to offer an alternative to the psychopathic insanity that is fundamentalist Christian doctrine.

I was just trying to find out what God is. Somebody else was just posting about a string called God. So it's a person or what?