GENIUS FORUMS

Carl, on the contrary, the meta-point you are trying to make has no bearing on crop circles; whereas my claim that crop circles are artistic completely destroys all need for further inquiry.

If you want to continue making this meta-point, pick a less farcical topic, and your complaint may not fall on deaf ears. You are making a parody of scientific methods by trying to apply them unnecessarily.

[withdrawn]

Carl as outlined the nub of the matter. We can decide how the crop circles were made later. At this point we are only trying to determine how they were not made. There are reports posted that mention anomalies. I was not there, I do not know. I'm simply looking at the photos, calculating the scale, and getting some sense of the number of man hours that would be needed to produce some of these more recent, and increasingly complex, examples.

A couple dudes with boards stomping wheat dont cut it. If it was a large team, well yes, theoretically they could get it done over nite, but common. Some stud would be *bragging*, and word would leak out. And as with the Three Stooges, people would be banging into each other, there'd be stumbles, and grain would be knocked down that should *NOT* have been.

Anybody got a sensible explanation why these -unusual apparitions- were not reported before the drunken duo (confessed pranksters) established the art form?

Just because you have not noticed, does not mean they didnt exist. I've seen *woodcuts* posted from the 18th century of what look like crop circles. Of course, in the era before airplanes, there could have been crop circles all over that nobody realized existed.

then too, compare the crop circles you know to be man made with what is being produced now. I dont claim no crop circles have been man made, only that those I've seen in the past couple years have become an increasingly sophisticated artform well beyond the usual mental capacity of frauds and pranksters.

Be nice to get the input from some surveyors on how long some of these designs would take to lay out with modern laser measuring equipment. Its no longer just a case of following the circle with a rope attached to the board.

daybrown wrote: A couple dudes with boards stomping wheat dont cut it. If it was a large team, well yes, theoretically they could get it done over nite, but common. Some stud would be *bragging*, and word would leak out. And as with the Three Stooges, people would be banging into each other, there'd be stumbles, and grain would be knocked down that should *NOT* have been.

A lot of baseless assumption here. There's so incredibly much a small dedicated group of inventive people can pull off when they have enough team spirit and motivation. And that's all you need to know really and perhaps get inspired by it!

sear wrote:Anybody got a sensible explanation why these -unusual apparitions- were not reported before the drunken duo (confessed pranksters) established the art form?

Well, there are a couple, perhaps even way more that nobody bothered reporting in a structural way. The most reliable, oldest report is probably the one in the Nature magazine, volume 22, pp 290-291, 29 July 1880 (source: Wikipedia).

"Of course, in the era before airplanes, there could have been crop circles all over that nobody realized existed."

Long before there were airplanes there were balloons.
And for eons before there were balloons, there was topology; cliffs, highlands, mounds, & hillocks; with vistas beneath.

Diebert,
I don't mean to seem dismissive. But I do not regard Wiki as a legitimate scientific / historical source.
It might be in this case. But due to promiscuous authorship, and virtually no editorial board (by standard of reputable written sources) I disregard such claims. I don't even bookmark Wiki in my browser.

sear wrote: And for eons before there were balloons, there was topology; cliffs, highlands, mounds, & hillocks; with vistas beneath.

Checking out patterns in the field from the top of a hill? Have you ever been on a hill to try that? It's way easier and common for a farmer to notice something flattened his valuable crop on a large scale, pattern or not. No need to get high.

I don't mean to seem dismissive. But I do not regard Wiki as a legitimate scientific / historical source. It might be in this case.

Wikipedia is not intended to be a legitimate scientific or historical source. Good thing you caught onto that at least. It's just damn handy and accessible, which is convenient to refer to on the Web without breaching copyrights or end up with subscription schemes. Most web users know this and use it as a way to introduce people to a topic but most importantly the references and sources that a good Wikipedia article should contain. In this case it was the Journal of Meteorology, Volume 25, if you had bothered to read the page.

But due to promiscuous authorship, and virtually no editorial board (by standard of reputable written sources) I disregard such claims. I don't even bookmark Wiki in my browser.

If you had any real interest in the issue or had any access to a library or university you could easily check out some of the references. Perhaps you prefer to appear skeptical on message boards only.

"Checking out patterns in the field from the top of a hill? Have you ever been on a hill to try that? It's way easier and common for a farmer to notice something flattened his valuable crop on a large scale, pattern or not. No need to get high." Diebert

A farmer at grade level might easily recognize that a portion of his field had been bent or flattened.
But he might not recognize the artistic pattern (they're called "crop circles", but that's become a bit of a misnomer, as they can vary in shape, and complexity of pattern).
I suggested the elevated viewpoint as a means to indicate that while heavier than air craft may be useful in viewing some such creations, they are not essential to it.

"Perhaps you prefer to appear skeptical on message boards only." Diebert

Hmmm.
Yeah.
That's probably it.
There's probably no more sensible explanation less disparaging to me.

.



Police find swastika cut into acres of New Jersey cornfield

Back behind the towering corn is a message that can only be seen from the air

http://www.nbc10.com/news/14193066/detail.html



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Crop circles lol Fields of dreams.

Anything capable of travelling to earth or with the technical know how to send bursts of electromagnetic shit to place a certain type of pattern in a certain spot 50,000 or so years in advance would not be fucking around with crop circles.

Here you go.. :D

edit: ahh, here we go...

http://www.informantnews.com/starshipga ... /index.htm
Happy now?

Jamesh wrote:Crop circles lol Fields of dreams.

Anything capable of travelling to earth or with the technical know how to send bursts of electromagnetic shit to place a certain type of pattern in a certain spot 50,000 or so years in advance would not be fucking around with crop circles.

Lol, another country heard from. In this case, Stupidistan.

Carl,

You make too many assumptions that technology can do anything. I for one do not believe it is possible for large objects to travel at speeds we have only seen in the electromagnetic spectrum, which is precisely what is required for aliens to travel to earth from whatever distant solar system is capable of creating life. Forget about worm holes and time travel and all that crap, it is mere fantasy. All observed life evolved on earth, our DNA is local - again forget about the nonsense you hear about it potentially coming from asteroids or the like. There is life on other planets, but such planets are so far away this point is essentially meaningless.

What my knowledge or reality tells me is that there are limits to everything and the only way to travel from one many light years apart place to here is either to do so in the electromagnetic spectrum, or to take thousands of years doing so in a computerised regenerative hibernation state. Those alien cultures with the ability to do either really should have no interest in other planets or life forms - such desires/curiousities would have longed passed away from the nature of such aliens as they would already have a complete understanding of reality in all its forms - they would have no need for curiosity or control of other life forms or even any desire to communicate. You are simply projecting present human values and desires into your concept of what an intelligent alien might be, and this is a totally false viewpoint.

My personal viewpoint is that technology will ALWAYS lead to the total destruction of intelligent life forms, albeit that such destruction may be like voluntary euthanasia. This is biased viewpoint relating to my knowledge of all life on earth, and the fact that everything innthe universe is always at war with whatever is not viewed as itself. In reality the only other option to anilhilation is that what once was many parts of a life system, becomes a singular form of life (ie godlike), in which case it would remain existant as a closed system, and have no need for influencing life elsewhere.

Tomas wrote:Police find swastika cut into acres of New Jersey cornfield

Finally, the long-awaited proof that the aliens are followers of Jainism.

This should certainly settle all religious debates immediately.

DHodges wrote:

Tomas wrote:Police find swastika cut into acres of New Jersey cornfield

Finally, the long-awaited proof that the aliens are followers of Jainism.

This should certainly settle all religious debates immediately.

...


(pardon the dyslexia)

Wow, where do i begin? So much of Jain(ism) is like a mirror-image of (Dakota & surrounding area) Native American Indian "teachings". I know, i've ranted about this before but growing up next to Three Affiliated Tribes (Mandan, Arikara, Hidista) Indian Reservation (The Rez). I'll be there (invited onlooker) next week for a pow-wow. I think i've attended 10-15 events, only caveat is that i must be under a buffalo skin (blanket) with only the face exposed and must not look at anyone elses facial area (esp. eyes). The peyote will be available :-) to ingest ahead of time gonna be a real gas.

The girlfriend (my lifetime soul-mate) will be at her 7th one as she keeps track of these matters, i tend to forget, overlook the (petty) nuances but not the body language exhibited at these gatherings.

I scanned what you'd included DHodges, and came upon a section where the twin-soul thingy about being born twins (boy and a girl) and the oddity of my girlfriend of 40 some years... i had gone to the North Dakota State Fair in Minot, North Dakota in the early 1960s, a bunch of us guys had gone thru the Midway and we ended up at one of those "gypsy" palm-reading booths, and i paid the $2 for a Reading, you know, where she looks at your eyes, facial creases, moles, freckles on hands arms whatever. She gave me the once-over and started to give me her "impression" when i involuntarily pulled my shirt-sleeves up (it was warm, humid night in that tent in late July, oddly on my birthday, no less!) and her eyes checked my arms and she grabbed my right arm just below the elbow and jumped up and "shrieked?" she wobbled on her feet for a few seconds and pointed (at mole-freckle birthmark) and said, "You're the one"!
Well, i was still a virgin in every sense of the word, no cigs, sex (no wet dreams yet), booze, drugs etc. If i had had some urine in the bladder i would've pissed my pants she startled me that much.

To make this story short she said my soul-mate (twin) would have the same birthmark in the same place AND be born on the same day and same year as me. Yeah right...

Well, at the junior-high school that fall, this family settled at Minot air force base, her father was a Major in the missile fields. On the first day of orientation, the locker assignments were handed out, hers assigned next to mine on the right side. A few days later, we arrived at lockers, Wall-Ah! soon as our eyes met (body language etc.) it was like instant out-of-body communion. A kind of misty, cloudy, white light bathed us all over. I'm leaving it at that. We knew right then and there.

Anyways, about 70 miles from where we live in California is one of the Jain "temples". Drive by it five days a week to/from my business. Think i'm gonna check this out this weekend and see what its all about. I'd been to one when i was in the Army all those years ago and read a 30-page booklet a few years back.

Then off to Dakota for powwow and a short visit to the surreal hellish landscapes of (The Badlands) lots of dinosaurs' bones to pick thru near The Rez... and Norsk Hostfest in Minot.



Thanks, DHodges



Tomas (the tank)
Prince of Jerusalem
16 Degree
Scottish Rite Free Mason




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Jamesh wrote:Carl,

You make too many assumptions

Really? Where? Actually, I have advocated only a strictly scientific approach to crop circles, based on examining the evidence in them. It is you who fill your post with assumptions, and at that, ones that do not even apply directly to the issue:

1.

I for one do not believe it is possible for large objects to travel at speeds we have only seen in the electromagnetic spectrum

2.

which is precisely what is required for aliens to travel to earth from whatever distant solar system is capable of creating life.

3.

Forget about worm holes and time travel and all that crap, it is mere fantasy.

4.

All observed life evolved on earth, our DNA is local

5.

There is life on other planets, but such planets are so far away this point is essentially meaningless.

6.

the only way to travel from one many light years apart place to here is either to do so in the electromagnetic spectrum, or to take thousands of years doing so in a computerised regenerative hibernation state.

7.

Those alien cultures with the ability to do either really should have no interest in other planets or life forms

8.

- such desires/curiousities would have longed passed away from the nature of such aliens

9.

as they would already have a complete understanding of reality in all its forms

10.

- they would have no need for curiosity or control of other life forms or even any desire to communicate.

11.

You are simply projecting present human values and desires into your concept of what an intelligent alien might be,

12.

and this is a totally false viewpoint.

13.

technology will ALWAYS lead to the total destruction of intelligent life forms, albeit that such destruction may be like voluntary euthanasia.

14.

everything in the universe is always at war with whatever is not viewed as itself.

15.

only other option to annihilation is that what once was many parts of a life system, becomes a singular form of life (ie godlike),

16.

in which case it would remain existent as a closed system, and have no need for influencing life elsewhere.

How will you be able to examine any issue while carrying about such baggage as this litany of personal opinion.

Directed at no one in particular:

Assumtion is the mother of all fckups... Assumtion that you know everything-> based on your current understanding of the world, which you have collected from mainstreem media and institution education... that is one of the biggest fckups there is.

Every time you are cought by suprise about something is the proof of this.

I find that when someone who is extremely well educated in the realm of physics who says worm holes and the like in the context of using them for travel purposes is mere fantasy is just getting a little snippy.

One night when I was 15 years old I was in Salem Oregon visiting a cousion in the Keiser area where she lived in an aparment complex.

As we walked to a friends place we looked up and about 100 meters away we saw about 20 ft above some manufactured homes 3 lights spaced about 4-6 ft apart.

Blue, green, and yellow though the rest of the craft was not visible at all and it was moving under 5 mph with zero deviation in altitude steady as a rock.

The strange part is as we watched it move north at barely a walking pace it made zero noise.

I knew of silent rotor technology at the time and even that would be heard at that close of a range.

Then after perhaps 10-20 seconds one light after the other disappeared into a curtain of blackness and it was gone.


I may not be highly educated or a genius but I damned sure can bet that that craft was either highly advanced human engineering or something else.


It still haunts me to this day just thinking about it and I am about to attempt to get on to google maps to find the exact location where it happened just for old times sake.

I tell you this was something that many would kill to have seen.

The only explanation for the lights being visible I could think of was a simple form of camoflauge and it just occurred to me that it was so low because it was avoiding radar.

I have not talked to her in years but will be calling her to get the exact location of the sighting so I can look down on it from google maps mainly for my own sastisfaction.


She will probably understand why I want to do it.

Tek0, while I'm really a 'believer' when it comes to the UFO mystery, at the same time your story is so easily to explain that I would like to point out the obvious:

One night when I was 15 years old I was in Salem Oregon visiting a cousion in the Keiser area where she lived in an aparment complex.

So you were obviously not familiar with the airspace there. Did you know they have an airport which includes the National Guard as well as municipal flights? Probable smaller plane types which easily could fly once in a while above there houses when weather conditions would demand it (for example strong winds - also could explain the lack of sounds).

As we walked to a friends place we looked up and about 100 meters away we saw about 20 ft above some manufactured homes 3 lights spaced about 4-6 ft apart.

These distances could be estimated wrong. If the spacing was 100/3=33 ft (100 being average wingspan 737) then a possible airplane could fly 100-200 ft higher than your estimate.

Blue, green, and yellow though the rest of the craft was not visible at all and it was moving under 5 mph with zero deviation in altitude steady as a rock.

Slow descend of an airplane would look exactly like that! Check out this page
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/el ... 0263.shtml
Green - yellow -red sequence is common in aviation. Jenny Randles writes that strobes can easily look blue. Also blue has other significances possibly, I believe medical or humanitarian transports.

The strange part is as we watched it move north at barely a walking pace it made zero noise.

Wind direction and speed? South perhaps? Could you check if an airport lies in the North? Like the major hub in Portland perhaps, 50 miles on?

Then after perhaps 10-20 seconds one light after the other disappeared into a curtain of blackness and it was gone.

Perhaps it got blocked by trees, buildings etc on the horizon? Or low clouds, mists?

I may not be highly educated or a genius but I damned sure can bet that that craft was either highly advanced human engineering or something else.

Or did you witness a for you unusual landing sequence of a common airplane? Everything you describe fits that bill, apart from your size/hight estimation and the lack of sound.

I have not talked to her in years but will be calling her to get the exact location of the sighting so I can look down on it from google maps mainly for my own sastisfaction.

I hope she remembers anything at all but you could ask about flight patterns she witnessed over the years. How often do they fly over her town?

Perhaps this looks like me debunking but I really just want you to increase your skills in reasoning about this event, not trusting only eyes or a fleeting memory but also let pure reasoning have a say! Because way more interesting mysteries will unfold and can be examined this way.

The memory is still pretty strong of what actually occurred and I will gain access to a cell phone later today to talk with my cousin about the location that night.

I had searched around with google maps last night, however the land marks I recall like the local convenient store and other buildings names elude me except for the Circle K store which for all I know is not there anymore.

In any case most of the scenarios and factors you described are unfortunately out of the question completely.

Honestly this was something that was hovering with "zero" sound and I know for a fact it was no airplane or helicopter just passing by
on some routine flight route or reconnaisance/ training mission.

I served in the military so I have seen a fair bit of aircraft and nothing compared to this thing.

The thing had some insane stealth to it and the lights were not illuminating anything at all of the main body which simply blended in with the night rendering it not visible at all.

The only reason I could think of for the lights was that whatever was piloting it actually reasoned that someone standing under it or in close enough proximity could panic and possibly pose a threat to it, meaning it was making an effort to baffle anyone who might have happened to see it from anywhere within a certain radius.

Leading most people to simply write it off as government or local aircraft.


People have often reported when in close enough proximity to a advanced unknown aircraft a slight humming sound emanating from the craft but that was inaudible even from our close position.

Details on silent rotor become something I could look into but honestly with the short distance from us to it and the zero decibels coming from it I highly doubt the military would be precisely where it was and doing what it did.

Think I will go into a quick search for some hovering helicopters and see what the standard lighting arrangement is for civilian and possibly military helicopters that might fit the bill.



I would honestly need to go stand in that same spot to get more precise distances.

To that end I will eventually go out there for a visit and make a stop there to regain the sense of distance and height more accurately for my own memory.

But the details are photographically instilled in my mind of the flight characteristics and the weather was calm and clear with some sparse clouds in the sky.

The weather was irellevant as far as judging distance and speed due to our proximity.

The rest of the night we were a little afraid of going outside due to being unable to believe what we had just seen since we both knew that it was very unique in it's movement and behavior and lack of appearance other than the lights.

The two friends we told were slightly skeptical but we were taken a little seriously when they saw how disturbed we were by the event.

Another thing I might like to do is find another account with the same characteristics but I believe that may prove hard to do as I equate spotting something essentially the same as what my cousin and I saw that night close to the odds of winning a powerball lottery or worse.

As for crop circles: they is something fishily advanced about the most intricate and amazingly difficult crop circles for the artists to have played a part in making them.


a quick google flick just for giggles: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=5


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=1

The part about the tribes and their cargo-cult was particularly amusing and made me laugh a bit.

There are more parts to the last one but I won't bother posting them.

Btw I am far from gullible enough to believe everything I sees on the inter-tubes.

I just appreciate seeing imagry I have not seen that is historic in nature.

CIA infiltration craft tech since 1950 was way cool, look some up, lots of that tech is now declassified. 1 man suitcase helicopters etc. Bussy little bees, all this spreading of democracy around the world and working on Unified field theory must be a realy thankless job
There is a law(!)that prevents USA citizens from making contact with UFO's of extra terrestrial origin, kind of lucky I guess you guys did not make contact = Jail time :D
Guess they got so tired of people making stories up and then changing them (eg. July 1947 Roswell link) about ufo's that they found fitting to pass a law. The:
"Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, adopted on July 16, 1969"
.(MIB's saving the world from these nasty monsters/aliens = work in secret, for if it was out.. umm, not sure, but bad things would happen.. people would miss work etc.. not a good thing)


If it was Santa Claus though(might have been Rudolph’s red nose, which is green around the year, reflecting of 2 weather balloons that were passing, then because of the weather phenomena made reflections yellow and blue. - I should work for fox news! :P )... you are free to fraternize with him, no law against that. :-S

(Edit:)I have seen one of these lights (red/yellow) myself about 2 years ago in Australian outback night time (with another guy) near a river, streak from horizon to horizon in about 1-2 seconds high up = not a meteorite ;-) First we saw reflection over water, looked up as the thing was almost gone.

I just watched quite a few videos of swat helicopters, civilian helicopters, and even black hawks hovering at night minus any stealth rotor technology of course.

None of them come even close to what we saw as in no blinking strobes and the layout of the lights was not resembling typical setups.

I just read someones post saying they have seen totally silent blackhawks that are reputed to be flown by various government agencies although they never specified the range from which they had seen them.



The whole dissapearing thing really spoils most explanations also.

Many times upon recollecting that I try to imagine what would have happened if I had had a firearm at the time and shot a few rounds at it.

Hard to say what would happen excactly though I can also imagine that if it did enter a wormhole a measely 9mm round would not phase it =)

tek0 wrote:
Many times upon recollecting that I try to imagine what would have happened if I had had a firearm at the time and shot a few rounds at it.

They might have thought you are being very rude at best and declaring a war at the worst? That's would be my guess ;-S

Newsflash: "Interstellar free trade begins: Export = lead pellets, propelled by chemical decomposition of nitrated cellulose. Imports = BIG can of whoop ass."
WarBurg:Finaly, some good news. Mmm, free trade...*salivate*

I'm pretty sure the crop circles could not have been made by an enthusiastic cult group for a numer of reasons. Sadly, I doubt the alien theory as well. I believe the military is the likely culprit, it is experimentation of new, secret technologies most likely, perhaps it also has other purposes. England chosen most likely because the American and English military machines are the most advanced, dangerous and aggressive in the world. Perhaps also the wet climate helps to bend the stalks. Most crop circles happen on rainy nights, another rather small but significant argument against prankster involvement.