GENIUS FORUMS

The perceiving mind initally observes actions as separate from itself. It separates consciousness from the will in order to protect the ego. The use of language as a device to describe events has unintentionally placed events at a distance, compartmentalizing them for further examination, to only be reinterpreted by the inefficency of language. The role of semantics as a means to explore causality is made evident through the symbolic nature of the mind. Language is a byproduct of a deeper process, a process continually occuring within the perceiving mind. In order to transcend the limitations of language, one must first recognize this process, in order to unite their will with their consciousness, for greater awareness.

This symbolic process constantly occuring below the threshold of consciousness is responsible for consciousness. Causality is not only a recognition of perception, but a recognition of what undermines perception. The nature of our environment, is defined by us, our consciousness, our symbolic mind. When the will acts in conjunction with consciousness, our mind is able to create its own symbolic language. This language is no longer limited by words alone, but is as limitless as Nature itself.

The impermanence of experience is also innately disrupted by language, as it causes the mind to reflect back onto itself, limiting perception, in favor of analysis. When the mind has become conscious of the will, this is no longer the case: allowing for language to become the will. This state of symbolic self-reference is the non-dual state of awareness, the ever-changing morality of ying and yang, the absolute realization of Tao.

The limitation of language from the Taoist viewpoint is that it is based on a Subject and Predicate with a Verb...Something is being said about something...this implies an underlying belief that Nouns or Things cause events...
Taoists say in the real Universe there are no things at all...that we think of the Universe as the sum total of things..that we divide up the Universe into parts for description and by so doing miss the point...that of it being a seamless whole..
We feel separate and isolated from the Universe and view it
as an Object to tinker with...to bring under our control...to master it...some kind of masters of the Universe as a becoming...Go Humans!...hehe..

frank

On a side note--

I whole heartily agree that language is so inadequate.

Where I consistently fault "philosophy" is in the fact that it tends to institutionalize a rhetoric that obscures the "truth" that a particular philosopher is trying to advocate/explore.

It gets worse in University settings where professors write in ways only other professors with their "edu-speak" can understand. They fall to short hand, or styles that appeals only to that small audience which tends to make their effectiveness limited. Terms, verbiage, word play, all things that one must institutionalize oneself to join the game.

Few attempt to simplify their thoughts to assure understanding, but complicate them to obscurity. Obviously, they aren't discussing "simple" concepts, but it is the unusual philosopher that even makes the attempt to teach. Many veer into trying to "impress" each other and lost their ability to discover.

frank,

But one must tinker to know. And hopefully to learn in the process :)

Certain Taoists also believe in magic. Lao Tzu said something to the effect: "The will, when combined with virtue, allows for the Universe to follow the sage." From my own experience, when emersed in the whole, the will is all that exists.

Something Jung would have dug. Maybe he did?

But one must tinker to know. And hopefully to learn in the process

That's what we're doing.

" From my own experience, when emersed in the whole, the will is all that exists.

The Will to survive isn't it?
Nietschke thought it was lust for power..
Nevertheless we haven't sat naked, dripping with rain, in the cold..being Spiritual.
We have sought to manipulate things to enhance our survivability.

"The will, when combined with virtue, allows for the Universe to follow the sage."

The Virtue would be Wisdom wouldn't it?
If we spray DDT on the mozzies to increase our comfort...then wisdom would inform us that because the Tao is an organisation...the spraying of DDT would have effects more far reaching than mozzie death...spiders, birds dine on these things and are similarly destroyed...bees are affected adversely, these bees that pollinate the flowers that give rise to vegetables...without the birds, spiders, bees we die...

The delusion according to Tao is 'we are separate'...according to Tao we must realise we are interdependant...each species relying on each other's existance for it's own existance...I am the spider, bird, bee, sun, moon, earth...

It's the philosopher who tempers the Mighty Will with Wisdom...

Wisdom is an Act that enhances survivability.

Don't leave home without it.

frank

The Will to survive isn't it?
Nietschke thought it was lust for power..
Nevertheless we haven't sat naked, dripping with rain, in the cold..being Spiritual.
We have sought to manipulate things to enhance our survivability.

Nietzsche was right! Human nature, and not only nature, is will to power! The drive, infinity itself. One finds nothing in its denial.

suergaz wrote:

The Will to survive isn't it?
Nietschke thought it was lust for power..
Nevertheless we haven't sat naked, dripping with rain, in the cold..being Spiritual.
We have sought to manipulate things to enhance our survivability.

Nietzsche was right! Human nature, and not only nature, is will to power! The drive, infinity itself. One finds nothing in its denial.

Certain Taoists also believe in magic. Lao Tzu said something to the effect: "The will, when combined with virtue, allows for the Universe to follow the sage." From my own experience, when emersed in the whole, the will is all that exists.

the abyss Self projecting from non-resistance the procreatrix I,was the great chance and beginning: to extend the purpose of desire - for Time to make all existence inexact - those things kept ever vague.
thus was the will to operate unbegotten.
one thing nominally,everything alternatingly desirous.that which is first desired is permitted,then externalized and taken away by a circumlocution of beliefs becoming law.
no knowledge would seperate us from the virtues of non-existence but that for man - having become involved with disease,all his food is poisonous;his complete saturation is inevitable that he may become healthy.thus man wills by thought.
by the simulation of death by the utter negation of thought the Body is allowed to manifest spontaneously and is arbitrary and impervious to reaction.
only he who is unconscious of his actions has courage beyond good and evil:and is pure in his wisdom of sound sleep.
Will to pleasure is the basic function underlying all activity whether conscious or not, - and whatsoever the means.

Will to pleasure is the basic function underlying all activity whether conscious or not

Nope, the will to obtain pleasure and the Will to Power are caused by the will to become infinite. Pleasure and a sense of power are merely evolutionary caused rewards for doing the best thing for your survival.

Pleasure/power are how we(humanity) best seek infinity, so will to such still does in fact underlie all human activity.

Jamesh wrote:Will to pleasure is the basic function underlying all activity whether conscious or not

Nope, the will to obtain pleasure and the Will to Power are caused by the will to become infinite. Pleasure and a sense of power are merely evolutionary caused rewards for doing the best thing for your survival.

typical.
cowards fear,and must needs promise pleasure of their sufferings;And they who have experienced "I",would have you destroy its body;and are but outsproken hypocrites - their manifestation of pleasure being potential:verily,I realized that the origin of I ,was for pleasurable procreation...but that things had been changed.

The Will to infinity,what a joke.
man invented Self-pleasure but knoweth not his own love.
man,a feeder on dead bodies of Self.

speaking to my growing nails:
destroy O,my Self,these hallucinations of I am not by knowledge of pleasure.
thou mighty ecstasy that willeth Thy pleasure in suffering!make my consciousness reality of thee in body!
what is Self but Cosmos?what is I but Chaos?
eternally creating its pleasure,everything could become arbitrary.
whatever deceit we practice,the functions of emotions are one;their expression dual: Time making multitudinous by denial.
what is experience,but denial?what is the centre, but belief?

speaking to my growing nails:
destroy O,my Self,these hallucinations of I am not by knowledge of pleasure.
thou mighty ecstasy that willeth Thy pleasure in suffering!make my consciousness reality of thee in body!
what is Self but Cosmos?what is I but Chaos?
eternally creating its pleasure,everything could become arbitrary.
whatever deceit we practice,the functions of emotions are one;their expression dual: Time making multitudinous by denial.
what is experience,but denial?what is the centre, but belief?

Last night, I was clipping my nails, looking down on my progress, watching my once stickly fingers, becoming whole. As I was in bed, a bug had attached itself to my thigh, sucking my blood. It was my mother's own prediction, worrying long ago, that a tick would infect my body with lime disease. I quickly grabbed it and threw it on the floor. Once again, I was back inside my own body. As I type, she has insisted on clipping a toe nail. A "friendly" reminder of detachment.

[edit: redundancy]

don't go for concentration,it will not free you,the mind conceiving the law is bondage.arrived at that ,you will want deconcentration.dissociation from all ideas but one is not release but imaginative fulfilment.

the more evolved thinkers of past and some on this forum praise the belief in a moral doctrinal code,which they naturally and continually transgress,and never obtain their purpose.Given the right nature,they succeed fairly in there own governing.and are sane and healthy.

but the great work... fledge your wings you humble ones.ride the shark of your desire.
things must not matter - please yourself
by the recognition of juxtapositioned experience one knows about the quality of the work to be done."I am not" against "I am" - by this duality, let him remember to laugh at all times,recognize all things,resist nothing;then there is no conflict.
these are good beginnings.

'cram it', one might add to that.