Wev'e done....

Borommakot · Post by **Borommakot** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:21 pm

for all of our genius... how have we used what wev'e all learned here to help others?

beebuddy · Post by **beebuddy** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:24 pm

Actually, I haven't learned anything here yet. I don't really intend to help others either. Sometimes it just sort of 'happens' though, and it NEVER has anything to do with intellect. But that's just me.

Dan Rowden · Post by **Dan Rowden** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:39 pm

Um, for all whose genius, exactly?

Tharan · Post by **Tharan** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:27 pm

Why is it assumed that "helping others" is the default decision of a genius in a particular situation?

Dan Rowden · Post by **Dan Rowden** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:46 pm

Yes, it's a bad assumption because it takes genius to decide such a thing.

Rory · Post by **Rory** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:51 pm

Dan Rowden wrote:Yes, it's a bad assumption because it takes genius to decide such a thing.

Such a thing? Do you mean it takes a genius to decide to help others? or to decide not to help others?

Dan Rowden · Post by **Dan Rowden** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:01 pm

It takes an understanding of reality (genius) to know if and how and in what way one should help others. Also, to know if it ought be a "default" position or not.

Nice to see you posting here, Rory, btw..

Rory · Post by **Rory** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:49 pm

Dan Rowden wrote:It takes an understanding of reality (genius) to know if and how and in what way one should help others. Also, to know if it ought be a "default" position or not.

In what situations should one not help a person if they want and/or need it?

Nice to see you posting here, Rory, btw..

Thanks Dan. :)

Dan Rowden · Post by **Dan Rowden** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:56 pm

Rory wrote:
Dan Rowden wrote:It takes an understanding of reality (genius) to know if and how and in what way one should help others. Also, to know if it ought be a "default" position or not.
In what situations should one not help a person if they want and/or need it?

Short answer: wherein their desires are delusional or possibly contrary to one's own purpose. The second part of that is more obvious, but the first requires wisdom, ultimately. Otherwise, we're just guessing and could be fucking things up totally. I'll try and think of a couple of specific instances to highlight what I mean.

Rory · Post by **Rory** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:23 pm

Dan Rowden wrote: Short answer: wherein their desires are delusional or possibly contrary to one's own purpose. The second part of that is more obvious, but the first requires wisdom, ultimately. Otherwise, we're just guessing and could be fucking things up totally. I'll try and think of a couple of specific instances to highlight what I mean.

If their ideas are delusional would it not be helping them to try to help them realize this? Wanting help does not necessarily mean directly wanting, or knowing they want, the type of help you can or will provide.

But I will wait for your examples before commenting further, I think. :)

-Rory

Carl G · Post by **Carl G** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:15 pm

Borommakot wrote:for all of our genius... how have we used what wev'e all learned here to help others?

Agape love. By this, good will flows to all. And helps on the micro level through everyday interactions.

Borommakot · Post by **Borommakot** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:26 pm

"All whose genius?"

Uhh... I think at least one person here is truly a genius, but its definitely not me.
Together as a group, we could make decision beyond even pure genius.

Rory: "If their ideas are delusional would it not be helping them to try to help them realize this? Wanting help does not necessarily mean directly wanting, or knowing they want, the type of help you can or will provide. "

I agree. We don't have to help them in a way that they expect us to. If it leaves them in a state better than the one that they were in, then it's help.

I didn't mean single persons, though.

Rory · Post by **Rory** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:40 pm

Borommakot wrote:I didn't mean single persons, though.

Yeah, I think the conversation kind of changed - I was addressing that at the bit about how do we know when to help or not help.

Dan Rowden · Post by **Dan Rowden** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:22 pm

Rory wrote:
Dan Rowden wrote: Short answer: wherein their desires are delusional or possibly contrary to one's own purpose. The second part of that is more obvious, but the first requires wisdom, ultimately. Otherwise, we're just guessing and could be fucking things up totally. I'll try and think of a couple of specific instances to highlight what I mean.
If their ideas are delusional would it not be helping them to try to help them realize this?

Yes it would. But it's possible they may not see it that way.

Wanting help does not necessarily mean directly wanting, or knowing they want, the type of help you can or will provide.

Yes, sometimes actually helping people involves doing the exact opposite of what they may actually want. You don't help a drug addict by giving them drugs and you don't help a belief addict by shoring up their delusions.

Borommakot · Post by **Borommakot** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:26 pm

Is anyone here a doctor, or a social worker, or a teacher(and other jobs like them)? Does anyone aspire to be one? Whoever you are, you definitely deserve my respect. I take my hat off to all of you. I don't do anything for anybody that isn't my close friend or my family. I always feel terrible about it.

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:33 pm

Borommakot wrote:Is anyone here a doctor, or a social worker, or a teacher(and other jobs like them)? Does anyone aspire to be one? Whoever you are, you definitely deserve my respect. I take my hat off to all of you. I don't do anything for anybody that isn't my close friend or my family. I always feel terrible about it.

What makes a doctor, teacher, or social worker who helps others for pay any more noble than your auto mechanic who helps you by fixing your car for pay?

Carl G · Post by **Carl G** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:19 am

Borommakot wrote:Is anyone here a doctor, or a social worker, or a teacher(and other jobs like them)? Does anyone aspire to be one? Whoever you are, you definitely deserve my respect. I take my hat off to all of you.

Most doctors I've met are deeply disturbed individuals with little moral worth or compassion, and next to no knowledge of health. They are demons in disguise.

Borommakot · Post by **Borommakot** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:22 pm

A demon who does good(Ya you have to pay, but it's that way with anything), has still done good, demon
or not.

Liz, (can I say that?) I never said that they are more noble than anybody else. I was saying how doctors deserve my respect because they use what intelligence they have to SAVE PEOPLE'S LIVES. I never said that car repair men don't deserve my respect, only that however bad a person a doctor is he will always have it.

No offense to any car technicians, but would you rather have doctors or car technicians?

Carl G · Post by **Carl G** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:27 am

Borommakot wrote:A demon who does good(Ya you have to pay, but it's that way with anything), has still done good, demon
or not.

In your country the doctors help people? Here they mostly poison people and lead them astray.

No offense to any car technicians, but would you rather have doctors or car technicians?

I'd rather we have more health technicians.

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:23 am

Borommakot wrote: No offense to any car technicians, but would you rather have doctors or car technicians?

That depends if it's a car or a body that is malfunctioning. If you're talking a universal level, that's ridiculous. There isn't anything that is just going to wipe out all doctors or all car technicians. Supply and demand goes for the job market too.

**********************
edit to add: Since we have started playing "name that fallacy," what fallacy or fallacies (if any) is/are in the above quotation by starting the question off with "No offense to any car technicians"

Also, there is one other fallacy (or another example of a same fallacy) in Borommakot's argument. Can you name it?
.

Carl G · Post by **Carl G** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:23 am

Since we have started playing "name that fallacy," what fallacy or fallacies (if any) is/are in the above quotation by starting the question off with "No offense to any car technicians"

Not a philosophy student, but is it "begging the question"?

I'm pretty sure in legal lingo it would be called "leading the witness."

Borommakot · Post by **Borommakot** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:17 pm

Ok. My statement didn't need explaining, and now that Iv'e explained it I look like an idiot. I meant exactly what I said, and there really shouldn't be any reason to correct me(in my first statement about doctors etc..). Ya I did a shitty job explaining it, but I wasn't planning on explaining myself. It was pretty clear what I meant.

GENIUS FORUMS

Wev'e done....

Wev'e done....

Re: Wev'e done....

Ok.

Re: Ok.

Re: Ok.