GENIUS FORUMS

Faizi wrote:

You cannot make your own decisions as long as you are in the roost. I cannot take you seriously. You are a child. You need to pay for your own blueberries.

Woah there little girl, you are making some harsh conclusions here. Just because I live with my parents doesn’t mean that I am a child, lazy, unable to live a wise life, and all the rest of it.

You are brainwashed by American culture, this is the same type of babble I hear spewed from Dr Phil’s mouth, be careful because we are conditioned from unwise sources.

Dr Phil will take hyper-sensitive males that still live with their parents because they fear working in a corrupt civilization and then he’ll gang up on him with a ‘Proud American morality’ (slave) to make him feel ashamed.

The hyper-sensitive male is much more intelligent than the Proud Drone Americans.

I do something much more intelligent than buy blueberries, I grow them.

“Children buy blueberries, men grow them”
CP

Dr. Phil is pure pussy.

Little girl? Are you gay?

I think you need to break free from your parents. Life is easy when you are given shelter. Life outside is tough. I do not think that you necessarily have to live a hard life to become wise but I do think you have to leave the nest and live as an individual. I think that you have to relinquish attachment to the nest.

If there is dole to get, then get it. But get out of your parents' house.

Until you break free from that, you are a child.

I left home when I was eighteen. How old are you? Do you have siblings? Are your parents going to relinquish their home to you?

Admittedly, getting housing is more costly now than it was when I was eighteen. But, damn -- it is a matter of individuality.

Why do you continue to live under your parents' provision?

My eighteen year old daughter lives on her own, not in my house. She buys her own clothing and food. I do give her money once in a great while but not much. She pays her rent. She pays for her own food. She buys her clothing.

She may not be a great thinker yet but she is an autonomous individual. Tough. Smart.

She was independent from birth but it was only today that the umbilical cord was cut.

Finally.

I think you need to make the same cut.

Faizi

Faizi is banal, subjective, common and trivial in her observations and outlook. Not worth considering.

She ain't no dietician either. Just a puppet.

Faizi wrote:

I think you need to break free from your parents. Life is easy when you are given shelter.

Why should I leave home and enslave myself to a corrupt civilization when my father is already enslaved, why not leech off the enslaved instead of becoming a slave myself?

Faizi wrote:

Life outside is tough.

No life outside is irrational, civilization is a disease.

Faizi wrote:

you have to leave the nest and live as an individual.

Making the connection between living with parents and loss of individuality is an incredibly poor argument on your part. You assume that because one lives with parents that they are somehow controlled, this is completely false. I hate my parent’s behavior, and I am influencing them to help me in transforming their property into a sustainable paradise based on permaculture models. A complete return to nature is the destiny of humanity.

Faizi wrote:

Until you break free from that, you are a child.

You have no idea what you are talking about, you are talking out of your ass.

Faizi wrote:

I left home when I was eighteen.

You sound very proud of this. Proud like Dr Phil who is pure pussy in your own words.

Faizi wrote:

Admittedly, getting housing is more costly now than it was when I was eighteen. But, damn -- it is a matter of individuality.

Again you forget that we live in a corrupt civilization where individuality is almost impossible, why do you think guys like Quinn are living off government checks? These people that you claim have individuality are merely enslaved to culture.

Faizi wrote:

Why do you continue to live under your parents' provision?

You are assuming that my parents have some kind of control over me, you are incorrect. I call the shots in my home, my parents fear my lifestyle and conform to my demands.

Faizi wrote:

She may not be a great thinker yet but she is an autonomous individual. Tough. Smart.

How can she be smart, but not a great thinker? I don't follow your logic here. when you say smart do you mean blindly adapted to a sick society? Are sheep that follow the shepherd smart? No, but the wolf is smart because he patiencely watches as an outsider.

Why should I leave home and enslave myself to a corrupt civilization when my father is already enslaved, why not leech off the enslaved instead of becoming a slave myself?

No life outside is irrational, civilization is a disease.

I hate my parent’s behavior, and I am influencing them to help me in transforming their property into a sustainable paradise based on permaculture models. A complete return to nature is the destiny of humanity.

gain you forget that we live in a corrupt civilization where individuality is almost impossible,

This was some of the funniest, most self-delusional crap I have read in a loooong time.

Thanks for the amusement, youngster. One day, though, you will be standing in the wreckage of your life wondering where it all went awry. But, I wish you the best. I really do. It's such a bummer to discover how much of a fool you are. I hope this reality never occurs to you.

Cato wrote:

This was some of the funniest, most self-delusional crap I have read in a loooong time.

Thanks for the amusement, youngster. One day, though, you will be standing in the wreckage of your life wondering where it all went awry. But, I wish you the best. I really do. It's such a bummer to discover how much of a fool you are. I hope this reality never occurs to you.

Why don’t you actually make an argument and go into detail about how foolish I am? Is there any rationality behind these blind judgements of yours?

Because perhaps I am a fool, but I don’t think you have the balls to actually form an intelligent argument as to why this is the case.

Go ahead Cato, open my eyes…. be a hero.

.

cosmic_prostitute writes:

civilization is a disease.

The crown jewel in the configurations of civilization is the Family - that bosom of patrician property rights and maternal services, et al, happily encouraged and secured by a state in exchange for lifeblood and constructive contribution.

.

The nuclear family, in a nuclear age, has compromised our sense of togetherness congruency: shifting our focus away from the family, and onto the family as effect, as opposed to the family as cause. The wheel of causality is halted, because the line traced to the familiar inevitably results in an examination of the individual, in light of an upbringing in a society with no discernable support hierarchy.

Cosmic P.,

Why don’t you actually make an argument and go into detail about how foolish I am?

What, I am here to save your soul??

See, here is the problem:

Let's say you come across the most committed racist, KKK member you ever saw. Would you deem it a good usage of your time to try to talk him out of being a KKK racist??

Or, like a sensible person, would you imagine he is so far gone that logic and common sense would make no dent in his world view?

Now, ask me again why I don't bother trying to talk you out of this immature attitude and your worldview?

You have decided on narcissistic, anarchism. I'd imagine it is probably because of some mental disorder, too. I doubt I could talk you out of such things. Don't you?

We only fight the battles that we have a chance of winning, you know?

Stephen wrote:

The nuclear family, in a nuclear age, has compromised our sense of togetherness congruency: shifting our focus away from the family, and onto the family as effect, as opposed to the family as cause. The wheel of causality is halted, because the line traced to the familiar inevitably results in an examination of the individual, in light of an upbringing in a society with no discernable support hierarchy.

Stephen, your intellect is your weakness, what is this? You need to work on concise writing. Speak simply. Read Quinn’s posts or Cory Patrick. You hide your lack of understanding behind a shield of cryptic mumbo jumbo. You haven’t added anything to what Pye has said, you have only made it more confusing for other readers. Writing shouldn’t be confusing, it demonstrates a lack of understanding., you can do better than this.

Forget the big words, your ego is having too much fun here, start with trying to see simple relationships such as the relationship between conformity and family pride. Then base an entire argument on this one observation. Start small and simple and grow into something complicated. You are starting from the complicated and you make no sense. Stay in the small.

If you can observe one true relationship then this is the seed to a much vaster understanding. This should be your objective Stephen, the sage’s mind is incredibly simple, follow this example. Stop trying to ‘wow’ us with your intellect.

Pye wrote:

The crown jewel in the configurations of civilization is the Family - that bosom of patrician property rights and maternal services, et al, happily encouraged and secured by a state in exchange for lifeblood and constructive contribution.

Agreed Pye.

Another component of civilization is the destructive large scale commercial farming model that we use to sustain the overpopulated godless unit called “the city”

And also we have spent the last 100 years refining and specializing our building supplies only as a means to create excessively vain overcomplicated structures that we must enslave ourselves by doing jobs we hate for 30 years as a means to pay it off.

A true wise men is content in a log cabin.

Settlers were able to manage for thousands of years and I bet they weren’t an overly stressed bunch who had to pill pop prozac everyday just to be able to get out of bed.

Buildings these days are much too feminine. A lot of luxury and comfort in exchange for slavery. Most men do it to please women or they’ve grown into domesticated pussies themselves.

Civilization is a disease that enslaves man, this is an irrefutable fact. A complete return to simplicity is the solution. That solution entails sustainable living practices.

Solution:minimal dwellings.
Sustainable gardens. (permaculture)

Cato wrote:

You have decided on narcissistic, anarchism. I'd imagine it is probably because of some mental disorder, too. I doubt I could talk you out of such things. Don't you?

Come on Cato, use your logic, maybe I’m not too far good yet, give it a shot and perhaps the gods will smile on you for saving this one soul…

Can you make a good argument to refute the following:

1. 80% of all food in grocery stores is not edible to the wise man
2. universities have nothing to offer a wise man
3. restaurants are luxury, a wise man serves himself.
4. a wise man will not enslave himself to a feminine modern house, he’d rather keep his freedom and live in a minimal structure.
5. Super malls are the result of human vanity.
6. in small eco-villages, cars are not necessary, they are only necessary in a godless overpopulated feminine city.
7. Robots are only useful when you have slaves and masters, a wise man is beyond both.
8. Weapons are used by fools.
9. a wise man doesn’t need to cook because everything is eaten raw. Fruit, vegetables and grains all can be stored and eaten raw. Electricity is not necessary. They are thousands of off-grid communities living close lives to nature.
10. the fact that modern man is overly stressed and depressed is an indication that the environment has become overly complicated and corrupted.

The list goes on and on Cato, the sage must negate the entire world to retain his freedom.

The world is indeed a corpse as Jesus has suggested, only things are much much more complicated and corrupted now.

Stephen wrote:

Just writing some thoughts, forlorn guide.
Simple enough?
You wanna twist into Cory, now?
Please.

These are just helpful hints, do not forget that I’m still working on myself as well and I have fallen in the same pitfalls as you so this is not a personal attack, We are both in the same boat here.

we are both imperfect beings that are not afraid to feel pain as a means to grow.

think of suffering as the water that allows the plant (you) to grow.

Here’s another metaphor to help you along: when you build a sandcastle, you first need to put deep thought into the foundation and then build on top of that foundation.

The foundation represents your simple relationship: IE: the relationship between slavery and modern civilization.

And once you have your foundation you can build on top of it until you have the peaks of your sandcastle built.

Sometimes Stephen I feel like you are rushing to build the peaks of your sandcastle without first taking the time to deeply think about your foundation.

But without the foundation Stephen, the peaks are doomed to topple over.

The name is "Steven."

[happy, smile]

--

All I need to know, is that "I am."

I have (as I'm sure you also have) been working on my understanding of reality, non-stop, for some time now.

I've finally secured myself in my understanding. And what am I met with? Resistance!

As a matter of course.

"The learned are shame-ists."

Comic-Postulate

Well, I can point out the foolishness in your list, if nothing else...

1. 80% of all food in grocery stores is not edible to the wise man

This is just ridiculous. Are you positing that organic foods are better for you? because if you are no study definitively proves such a claim. Still, I could agree that a large portion of the processed foods might not be that healthy... but the number of 80% that you use reeks of hyperbole. If you want truth, hyperbole is to be avoided.

2. universities have nothing to offer a wise man

Nonsense. A wise man can find worth anywhere! If nothing else, one might learn how NOT to act and think by attending modern universities.

3. restaurants are luxury, a wise man serves himself.

What does that even mean??? Are you suggesting theft of food by that "wise man"? How does breaking laws make him "wise"?

4. a wise man will not enslave himself to a feminine modern house, he’d rather keep his freedom and live in a minimal structure.

Ah, the pointlessness of the "natural man"! Again, this structure you seem to blame for leading man astray is merely wood and stone. A wise man would not allow his abode to influence him so. A wise man can exist in ANY structure!

5. Super malls are the result of human vanity.

Again... what does this even mean? Sounds like pseudo, intellectual blather to me. A pseudo profundity that is empty of meaning.

6. in small eco-villages, cars are not necessary, they are only necessary in a godless overpopulated feminine city.

If man was able to easily live in these "small eco-villages" (A term that resounds with kitchy verbiage) then great cities would not exist in the first place. Man congregates. His congregation grows. It becomes a big city. That is human nature. Your proposal is based on utopian fantasies.

7. Robots are only useful when you have slaves and masters, a wise man is beyond both.

Again, this is a meaningless garble. Who is the slave? The robot? If not and you are claiming both the slave and the master is man, what need is there for the robot??

8. Weapons are used by fools.

Ha, ha, ha, ha. Tell ya what. I'll give you a plush toy, send you down into the worst neighborhood with a $100 bill taped to your forehead and see if you wouldn't desire that weapon after a short time!! Would you be a fool to protect yourself? Weapons are and always will be necessary because man is a vile, evil, selfish, dangerous creature. That will never change because man's nature will never change. Further more, even the "wise man" loses his temper or does something stupid once in a while.

9. a wise man doesn’t need to cook because everything is eaten raw. Fruit, vegetables and grains all can be stored and eaten raw. Electricity is not necessary. They are thousands of off-grid communities living close lives to nature.

Uh huh. Still, I have a question for you. If you are so pure, so able to discern the best way to live and that way excludes electricity... how are you powering that computer? Hamsters? (By the way, how do you eat a grain raw?)

10. the fact that modern man is overly stressed and depressed is an indication that the environment has become overly complicated and corrupted.

And you know this level of stress is somehow higher than ever how? Did we get a good psychologist to study a man from 1800. Then one from the Middle ages? And hen a cave man? What do you have to prove this "stress" is so unnatural or somehow new to man?

I'd almost guess you are one of those guys who thinks the "singularity" is imminent, right?

Dude, your ideas are bundles of assumptions based on guesswork and hope, gathered up into a pseudo ideology intended to make you feel "different" or "special" by forcing your behavior to be outside the established order. It makes you feel all warm and gushy inside that you show disdain to the evil system. But, I'll bet you've never taken time to investigate man's history to see how it evolved.

I say that western culture is the most enlightened and free culture that ever existed and is man's best chance to live as he will. But, this culture is also a natural progression, NOT something that is somehow unnatural or forced or foisted upon us unwittingly.

That being the case, your bucking the trend is REALLY the unnatural attempt to operate. Utopian fantasies have all failed in every time and in every nation. The Pilgrims? Failed. New Harmony, Indiana? Failed. Etc., etc.

And lastly...

only things are much much more complicated and corrupted now.

This line proves you know nothing of history, not just US history, but ANY history! We are not living in any more "complicated" or "corrupt" time than man has ever seen before. It was just a little different in specifics, but it was pretty much the same in general!

Cato wrote:This was some of the funniest, most self-delusional crap I have read in a loooong time.

Thanks for the amusement, youngster. One day, though, you will be standing in the wreckage of your life wondering where it all went awry. But, I wish you the best. I really do. It's such a bummer to discover how much of a fool you are. I hope this reality never occurs to you.

What's the use of telling CP how delusional you think he is, only then to not explain why? Just so you can get your ego trip by publicly gloating about how much wiser you are than him? Maybe you should reflect on this oh wise elder.

Just so you can get your ego trip by publicly gloating about how much wiser you are than him?

OK. That would be a good point IF I had said I was wiser than anyone!

Cato wrote:

Just so you can get your ego trip by publicly gloating about how much wiser you are than him?

OK. That would be a good point IF I had said I was wiser than anyone!

Maybe not using those exact words sure, but you did essentially communicate "I know better than you." to CP. No need to get hung up on technicalities, I think my message to you is obvious, and you know what I mean. You can dissect every word in my post if you wish, but in doing so you may only be deflecting your attention away from examining what your motivations were in that first post.

I am a strong believer in kicking chicks out of the nest. I had two children. I was responsible for them. I sent them to school. I nourished them. I have seen one to adulthood and I will see the other in two years.

I will not succor them into their fifties.

Freedom works both ways.

If you can milk your parents, cool. But don't expect me to respect you.

I won't be milked. I served my time. I want the freedom to think clearly.

I was stupid enough to give birth to you and I paid that price for eighteen years. I am not stupid enough to support you beyond that. Make it or break it. Eighteen years of suffering for my mistake is enough. I am done.

You are an adult, not a child. You don't want to be treated like a child, then, make it on your own. I will always be your mother but I will not be your slave and I will not be your ticket to leisure time.

Get out of the fucking nest. Make it on your own. Fly.

The irony is that the great delusion of the US is that anyone can make it on his own. The greater irony is that that delusion is true. The greater delusion is that the kids don't want to do it and the parents are stupid enough to play into that.

Poor little Ralphie!! How can he live without his Xbox and Broadband? How could he possibly afford his cell phone?

I think parental support beyond adulthood is detrimental to philosophy.

Faizi

Your parents conform to what you want -- what a spoiled brat you are, prostitute.

I cannot imagine that such brattiness could equal any sort of understanding of philosophy.

Who are the fops of philosophy -- Jesus? Buddha? Nietzsche? Spinoza?

Faizi

jason,

Maybe not using those exact words sure, but you did essentially communicate "I know better than you."

Wow. So you are joining the club you seem to want to disparage, then?

Cool.

Here is the secret handshake!

Cosmic wrote:

Electricity is not necessary. They are thousands of off-grid communities living close lives to nature.

Since you believe this, then, why are you still living with your parents and not among those communities living close to nature?

I cannot imagine truly knowing this and staying where you are.

Faizi

oh poor, poor little Faizi.

Can you believe the shit that this bitter old woman spins?

Steven wrote:

I've finally secured myself in my understanding.

This can be tricky business. One should always be open to the fact of being incorrect in understanding. Remember the human brain is inches away from the monkey brain and the reptilian brain for that matter.

Cato wrote:

Are you positing that organic foods are better for you?

What I’m suggesting is that most foods are laced with substances such as refined white sugar which causes disease. Most foods in supermarkets are not edible.

Cato wrote:

If nothing else, one might learn how NOT to act and think by attending modern universities.

Why would he get himself in large amounts of debt to become a slave only to learn that the entire venture was meaningless?

Cato wrote:

What does that even mean??? Are you suggesting theft of food by that "wise man"? How does breaking laws make him "wise"?

I’m suggesting that a rational man doesn’t need another person to serve him food. Restaurants are a feminine luxury that are doomed to go extinct as humanity wakes up.

Cato wrote:

A wise man can exist in ANY structure!

Yes, but he will be slave to pay the mortgage payment on any structure, you are circumventing all my points. The wise man can only be free in a minimal structure.

Cato wrote:

what does this even mean?

Walk through a supermall, 40% is dedicated to women’s vanity products, another 20% to corrupt fast food, 20% to hip trendy fashions, the entire supermall is meaningless.

Cato wrote:

Again, this is a meaningless garble. Who is the slave? The robot? If not and you are claiming both the slave and the master is man, what need is there for the robot??

Someone must own the robot, the owner ends up being the rich elitist who employs the worker who uses or manufactures the robot. Robots sustain the division between the rich and the poor. The little labour that needs to be done, humans can do. We don’t need robots.

Cato wrote:

send you down into the worst neighborhood with a $100 bill taped to your forehead and see if you wouldn't desire that weapon after a short time!!

I wouldn’t walk in the worst neighborhood of a corrupt city, this is just silly. I wouldn’t tape a $100 bill to my forehead, again silly. Your hypothetical examples are bizarre and based on the continuity of femininity.

Cato wrote:

Weapons are and always will be necessary because man is a vile, evil, selfish, dangerous creature.

That is a strong conclusion to make. Perhaps you are a dangerous creature, and perhaps I should stay away from you.

Cato wrote:

That will never change because man's nature will never change.

You are absolutely certain that the human being cannot change? Why do you come to this forum then? To witness how humans are not able to change?

Cato wrote:

how are you powering that computer?

I know what you are getting at, and I’m making the necessary research to become increasing minimal and sustainable. This sort of conversion takes time, we have become so spoiled and domesticated that one cannot simply rip the bandaid off fast so to speak, it requires intense research.

Cato wrote:

What do you have to prove this "stress" is so unnatural or somehow new to man?

What would a native Indian be stressed out about? everyday he would get up to wander around to find food. The hunter/gatherer lifestyle was much more simple than the complicated civilization that we live in now.

I’m suggesting that the more complicated things become and the more choice man has then the more disorderly, stressed, alienated, and inwardly tortured he feels.

Cato wrote:

I say that western culture is the most enlightened and free culture that ever existed.

You are giving the west more credit than it deserves, the west’s luxury is only achieved at the expense of exploiting the rest of the world.

Cato wrote:

Utopian fantasies have all failed in every time and in every nation.

These are not utopian fantasies, these are proven scientific methods that are being adopted across the globe. Do a search on David Holmgren through google. Permaculture as a lifestyle has become the new revolution. Wise people are not getting involved with politics or any of that garbage. One must go for the head of the snake to solve the myriad of environmental and psychological problems that we now face. The species is destroying itself, we must act intelligently.
This worldview is not projected to feel special. There is only one way to live and the western world are abusers and exploiters of the rest of the world. The western cities represent a complete and total femininity.

Cato wrote:

This line proves you know nothing of history, not just US history, but ANY history! We are not living in any more "complicated" or "corrupt" time than man has ever seen before. It was just a little different in specifics, but it was pretty much the same in general!

This is not true. Western Civilization has been evolving to become incredibly feminine. Our food has become more gratifying, our houses are more luxurious, man is trying to maximize all his pleasure/security and comfort and is enslaving himself worse than he ever has.

Do you think settlers three hundred years ago needed prozac? No, because they didn’t have to worry about a $1100 monthly payment on a mortgage, our houses are incredibly vain, excessive and feminine.

The facts bluntly speak the truth. There is only one truth and it is not special.

Faizi wrote:

If you can milk your parents, cool. But don't expect me to respect you.

But having children is just plain immoral. Can you admit that it was a mistake to have children in the first place? My parents are in a difficult predicament, they have brought a deep thinker into this world and they themselves do not reflect on anything. They are feminine circumventers of all truth.

They know what my worldview is, but they choose to stay enslaved to corrupt jobs because they are not fearless. I see them as the children and myself as the parent. I am constantly trying to educate my father who indignantly reacts to every word I utter.

Faizi wrote:

I won't be milked. I served my time. I want the freedom to think clearly.

The tragedy is that you brought children into the world and then you had to live with the consequences of that action. I will not have children because to have children at this stage of our psychological maturity is irrational.

Faizi wrote:

The greater delusion is that the kids don't want to do it and the parents are stupid enough to play into that.

Children that resist working at fast food places, call centers, malls, casinos or anything else in civilization are not stupid, they are hypersensitive and they are the prototype of humans of the future.

Faizi wrote:

Poor little Ralphie!! How can he live without his Xbox and Broadband? How could he possibly afford his cell phone?

All three of these objects are feminine attachments that the genius can live without.

Faizi wrote:

Your parents conform to what you want -- what a spoiled brat you are, prostitute.

My views are excessively masculine, my parents views are excessively feminine. Typically feminine people are afraid of masculine views. My parents will allow me to do whatever I want on their property within reason because they fear a discussion with me because their emotions will be stirred by such an encounter.

This is why I’m able to plant fruit trees, berries, perennial vegetables, vegetables, and all the rest of it.

Faizi wrote:

Since you believe this, then, why are you still living with your parents and not among those communities living close to nature?

I cannot imagine truly knowing this and staying where you are.

I am not completely fearless, and this is why I’m testing these methods to make sure they can support one individual. However I have researched places where these methods have been successful in sustaining small off-grid communities.

Cosimc Prostitute,

(your comments preceded by --)

--What I’m suggesting is that most foods are laced with substances such as refined white sugar which causes disease. Most foods in supermarkets are not edible.

The scare mongers in the whole foods industry have gotten to you. But, I will admit that many processed food items are not great for you and that too many people do not vary their diet from those processed foods.

--Why would he get himself in large amounts of debt (going to University) to become a slave only to learn that the entire venture was meaningless?

It is not "meaningless". This is funny that I am sticking up for Universities, though. I generally find them to be run by communists that wish to destroy this country. I would love to see many of them closed down. Further, I'd love to see foreign students removed and barred from our schools.

But, because our Universities are generally garbage now does not mean the concept is bad. Nor does it mean that one can glean nothing of use from them even in the sorry shape they are now in. throwing the baby out with the bath water bespeaks a radical mind not open to truth.

One wonders if your instant scoffing at Universities stems more from your not wanting to attend one where you will be expected to work, than out of any real principle, though.

--I’m suggesting that a rational man doesn’t need another person to serve him food. Restaurants are a feminine luxury that are doomed to go extinct as humanity wakes up.

Ah, now I get you. I can sort of agree here. But, I think it is harmless and you place far too much emphasis on it. And, being served will never go extinct! YOU expect your parent to serve you! Why are you not so "feminized" that you aren't stepping out on your own?

I'd say you are.

--Yes, but he will be slave to pay the mortgage payment on any structure, you are circumventing all my points. The wise man can only be free in a minimal structure.

See, the problem is that your "minimal" structure will STILL need upkeep. Repair. The land to be purchased. Etc. You still need a form of money and/or trade. You will always be a "slave" to some degree to that structure no matter how "minimal" it might be.

Yet, again, you place the emphasis on the physical manifestation, which I find rather amusing since you keep claiming that the "wise man" needs his attitude adjusted. This structure is not an issue for the real man who can easily handle its demands!

Further more, a real man must make a safe and comfortable place for his wife and children to grow and live. This is the charge of the male. To make the place for the woman so she might focus on the children.

But, how do you consider that aspect? Do you imagine this "free man" you keep talking about is so free that he is without wife and child? If so, then you are obviating that human nature you keep talking about. Our very essence is to procreate. It is the main and most deep seated imputes for being. If you say you don't want wife and child, then you are violating that preordained nature you keep talking about.

And here is another aspect. One of the woman's role is to "feminize" her man to a degree. To keep him with her, not roaming about with other women. To domesticate him so that he provides for her. So, while you keep saying it is "bad" to be feminized, you are ignoring the role of the female to do just that to the man (to a degree). It is also the man's duty to accept this small amount of feminization to make the wife comfortable and give a safe place for children to be raised.

Anyone who does NOT procreate is VIOLATING nature. (This is why homosexuality is wrong at the very least)


--Walk through a supermall, 40% is dedicated to women’s vanity products, another 20% to corrupt fast food, 20% to hip trendy fashions, the entire supermall is meaningless.

Yeah. I guess I have to agree with you there. I never go in the places, myself. I rarely find anything that interests me. Even the books stores are too small to have much of the subjects that interest me.

I am NOT much for popular culture. I DESPISE sports and I hate movie star talk!

--Someone must own the robot, the owner ends up being the rich elitist who employs the worker who uses or manufactures the robot. Robots sustain the division between the rich and the poor. The little labour that needs to be done, humans can do. We don’t need robots.

Well, this is a ridiculous claim. See there was a day when only rich people owned cars, refrigerators, washing machines, cell phones, VCRs and color TVs. They were VERY expensive in the early days of each of those manufacturing industries. But, as they improved and grew in interest, they got cheaper. Now even the "poor" in the US own just about all of the above mentioned items.

See, when/if robots first come out for the general public, it will surely be that only the rich own them. But, as in EVERY industry, EVERY manufactured item, if it works it improves and gets cheaper. Even the poor will have one if they get that pervasive and if they are need that much.

Without the rich to absorb the trial and error stage, the research and development stage, the poor never get the benefit of the product. The rich serve a great purpose at least with this measure.

--Your hypothetical examples are bizarre and based on the continuity of femininity.

Meaningless mantra. You aren't very experienced with life and people are you? How old are you? Under 25? Under 20? I generally cannot take anyone under 30 seriously.

--That is a strong conclusion to make. Perhaps you are a dangerous creature, and perhaps I should stay away from you.

If you think it strange that man is a dangerous, selfish, and evil creature, you have not read much history, nor met many people, nor been around very long. THIS is why your utopian ideas are doomed to failure.

--You are absolutely certain that the human being cannot change? Why do you come to this forum then? To witness how humans are not able to change?

No, man as a "race" cannot change. But man as an individual may. This is the role of introspection, religion and philosophy. To make the individual aware of a better way, one that will improve him. But, this is all individual, not collective because there will be the preponderance of humans that will not be able to succeed with this way or will refuse to even try to follow these paths.

Again, your Luddite (another failed community, by the way) like attitude presupposes a forced existence. If you wish to somehow return man to some more natural state, you will be forced to destroy the impediments to that goal. Are you suggesting a totalitarian beginning to "remake" man, Mr. Marx? If so, you are doomed to ignominious failure, just like all the ones that came before you did.

-- This sort of conversion takes time, we have become so spoiled and domesticated that one cannot simply rip the bandaid off fast so to speak, it requires intense research.

I would suggest research is feminizing you. Just go out and DO it. A real man needs no research. (wink, wink)

--What would a native Indian be stressed out about? everyday he would get up to wander around to find food. The hunter/gatherer lifestyle was much more simple than the complicated civilization that we live in now.

Wow. What an uninformed view of aboriginal life!!! Do you imagine that all Indians were the same? That they were all this idyllic "hunter/gather" societies you seem to idealize?

Let me give you a little list of the things they had to "worry" about...

-Invasion and war among tribes (happened ALL the time)
-Sickness and disease was nothing they could cure
-Planting seasons (if you don't think that a "gathering" society -- or a farming one-- isn't a slave to weather conditions, then you are sadly mistaken)
-Lack of rain
-Too much rain
-A season too cold
-Too hot
-Low child birth rate
-Early death
-Accidental injuries which cannot be cured

No, my ill-informed friend, there were as many and varied Indian cultures as they are anything else. Some were exclusively war like and stole about everything the used. Raided other tribes and enslaved their peoples. Some were very bad on their environment. Used up everything in the area and then moved on leaving that area devastated and ruined. Some were farmers and stayed put for generations.

Your offhanded comment shows you know nothing of our aboriginal peoples. You infantalize them and reduce them to a convenient stereotype to fit your outlandish theories. In fact, I find your characterization of them highly insulting.

--I’m suggesting that the more complicated things become and the more choice man has then the more disorderly, stressed, alienated, and inwardly tortured he feels.

And, I find this an assumption that is beyond proof.I find it a mere assumption posited with a sort of "religious" fervor.

--You are giving the west more credit than it deserves, the west’s luxury is only achieved at the expense of exploiting the rest of the world.

Absurd. The rest of the world has had their standard of living raised right along with the west's. Further, they generally have been WILLINGLY "exploited"!

--Do a search on David Holmgren through google.

I will do that sometime this week when I have some time. I expect to be highly amused by yet another Jim Jones Guru who is half off his nut, proposing another doomed utopian scheme. Meanwhile, I'd guess he is making a TON of cash off of disciples like yourself. But, I will reserve final judgment until I check it out more. I hope to be surprised, but I doubt I will.

-- Wise people are not getting involved with politics or any of that garbage.

And THIS is the most silly utopian aspect of your claims. Get two people together and you have politics! Your system cannot, due to man's nature, stay free of politics. Guaranteed if such a community starts it will split along what will amount to "Party lines" and fail due to this conflict.

I am telling you, these ideas have been tried dozens of times throughout the ages and have ALWAYS failed.

--Western Civilization has been evolving to become incredibly feminine. Our food has become more gratifying, our houses are more luxurious, man is trying to maximize all his pleasure/security and comfort and is enslaving himself worse than he ever has.

I do agree with this statement, such as it is. I only disagree that the solution is to return to some mythical "hunter/gatherer" society that you propose. In fact, I say this era of the perfect life NEVER existed! It is a myth.

-- There is only one truth and it is not special.

I agree. It is quite common. But what is NOT common is to realize it, see it. I think you are common in that you do NOT see it!

Cato wrote:

Anyone who does NOT procreate is VIOLATING nature.

A bit extreme since nature is about way more than procreation alone, for example if one doesn't procreate the herd can still be served.

Wisdom might not be 'natural' at all in the usual sense. Self-consciousness is not exactly healthy, at some point it starts to damage the drives and instinct. Or at least twists them around a bit.

This is the tight spot humans find themselves in, suffering. Not natural enough to be an animal, not wise enough to be god.

The only solution ever offered, apart from devolving back into the primitive, is to develop further. Going all the way. Buddha.

A bit extreme since nature is about way more than procreation alone, for example if one doesn't procreate the herd can still be served.

Agreed. I was being a tad provocative with that one. But can our fan of "masculinity" be imagined to be much different with his ideas? I doubt it.