GENIUS FORUMS

I think its a great tragedy to realize emptiness ever, at least when looking at it clearly early on.

You've had me being acutely aware of the emptiness of the very concepts of suffering, pain and the negative connotations in the mind, which effectively cuts off whatever meaning these manifestations could have.

See why I ask for communication, you can sometimes just say things, the path to the end of suffering is through lasting non-attachment to conceptual and emotional manifestations of the mind, in this way over coming the apparent identity or apparent inherent existence of such feelings/thoughts/attachments, it is done through present awareness of these feelings/manifestations as they pass by, which leads to the end of a dualistic perspective, the end of clinging to identity and ego.

SeekerOfWisdom wrote:...it is a matter of liberation that can occur while living rather than drastically changing existence as is? Could one live each day without any suffering?

Existence is drastically changing the whole time but it's our belief in things that is lagging. Life itself, as conceived usually, has suffering as center piece. Once that is understood it's clear that suffering cannot be completely undone without undoing life. What you're asking for then is the eternal life and how that would work.

seeker,
emptiness/dependent origination as understandings, as a breakthrough, 'sets the scene'.
a fresh start,
beginners mind,
a sudden realisation of true nature.

all the layers of the onion have peeled off to disclose nothing.
A massive shock because ordinarily 'the thinking' on these matters expects the disclosure to reveal a core or substance thereabouts.
WTF!

what happens next,
out of nothing,
a possibility for possibility shows up.

What's your possibility?

Nothing, semantics, possibility, I Love You?

Dennis Mahar wrote:
what happens next,
out of nothing,
a possibility for possibility shows up.

What's your possibility?

Nothing, semantics, possibility, I Love You?

Not really sure what you mean here?

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:Once that is understood it's clear that suffering cannot be completely undone without undoing life. What you're asking for then is the eternal life and how that would work.

I clearly haven't done this then in terms of 'undoing life', what would you expect it to involve?

Not really sure what you mean here?

You haven't described your breakthru' moment.
From some things you say I assume it happened to you.

In that moment,
you would have experienced 'nothing'
all prior meanings (semantics) would have blown off.
a possibility for existence would have occurred to you.
an explosion of love would have erupted for 'true nature', the infinite.

You haven't asked about it. Personally it happened over time with me, I found that the world was made up of empty manifestations of the mind just through prolonged awareness, not through reading or learning, tho I had already known it before I knew I knew it. I wouldn't characterize it as any one moment or even one feeling toward it such as love. At some points, I really believe breakthru can come with great fear regarding the initial emptiness of self. There of course was an overwhelming happiness in having found the answer, the 'ineffable' bliss that comes with awareness of reality/forever/infinite. Isn't it ironic that 'empty and meaningless' holds meaning, 2 truths I guess.

tho I had already known it before I knew I knew it.

yeah, recognition.

re cognition

re recognising

its funny how the mind goes down dark corridors looking for something concrete to grasp.
bit of a thrillseeker.

dwell in the infinite

Dennis Mahar wrote:
dwell in the infinite

It was a meaningless problem to start, but that is the solution.

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:

SeekerOfWisdom wrote:...it is a matter of liberation that can occur while living rather than drastically changing existence as is? Could one live each day without any suffering?

Existence is drastically changing the whole time but it's our belief in things that is lagging. Life itself, as conceived usually, has suffering as center piece. Once that is understood it's clear that suffering cannot be completely undone without undoing life. What you're asking for then is the eternal life and how that would work.

Cutting through that vacuous response ...

Yes. Absolutely. One can live not only each day, but each moment, without any suffering.

And would you say the path is the same as Dennis described?

What I've discerned so far is a path of awareness of the emptiness of the very concept of suffering, (and of other feelings arising) to even see it as suffering or think of it as negative is really, well, bullshit. Differentiating it and clinging to some old meaningless idea about it.

Cahoot wrote:

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:

SeekerOfWisdom wrote:...it is a matter of liberation that can occur while living rather than drastically changing existence as is? Could one live each day without any suffering?

Existence is drastically changing the whole time but it's our belief in things that is lagging. Life itself, as conceived usually, has suffering as center piece. Once that is understood it's clear that suffering cannot be completely undone without undoing life. What you're asking for then is the eternal life and how that would work.

Yes. Absolutely. One can live not only each day, but each moment, without any suffering.

Perhaps by not thinking about it. Little suicides? Good luck!

SeekerOfWisdom wrote: a path of awareness of the emptiness of the very concept of suffering

It's not a concept. Well, unless you want to frame all of life as a concept. But awareness includes but is not limited to the endpoint of conceptualization.

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:

Cahoot wrote:

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:

SeekerOfWisdom wrote:...it is a matter of liberation that can occur while living rather than drastically changing existence as is? Could one live each day without any suffering?

Existence is drastically changing the whole time but it's our belief in things that is lagging. Life itself, as conceived usually, has suffering as center piece. Once that is understood it's clear that suffering cannot be completely undone without undoing life. What you're asking for then is the eternal life and how that would work.

Cutting through that vacuous response ...

Yes. Absolutely. One can live not only each day, but each moment, without any suffering.

Perhaps by not thinking about it. Little suicides? Good luck!

Why, you can think about any old thing you want. Any old thing at all. And in a little while you probably won't even remember what those thoughts were. Thinking is a natural function, just like breathing. Denying what is, as a means, is a typical misunderstanding of the academic.

There are concepts of suffering but I didn't say that is the entirety of how suffering exists,
feelings, sensations, that negative stuff we wake up to when we're hurting. The point is that suffering doesn't have to hold that negative meaning/feeling, awareness of its true empty nature removes those past connotations. It isn't hard to see them as bullshit, tho often the mind will cling to the identity of suffering and see it as real in itself, that occurs when there is an absence of awareness or non-attachment.

Because we are of the principles and patterns of causality, causality is the way we are moved/emanated/expanded. This is the whole purpose of wisdom, to realize one has total control over what they do or do not cause to be effected. This requires mindfulness, effort, obedience, dedication, etc. Which means if one desires to cause the end of suffering, they must define what suffering is for them and begin the process of causing its demise.

Cahoot wrote:Why, you can think about any old thing you want. Any old thing at all. And in a little while you probably won't even remember what those thoughts were. Thinking is a natural function, just like breathing.

Then I'd suggest to breath deeper before your brain suffocates and you'd forget more of yesterday's thoughts. Birth, death, breath in, breath out: it's still suffering.

SeekerOfWisdom wrote:The point is that suffering doesn't have to hold that negative meaning/feeling, awareness of its true empty nature removes those past connotations. It isn't hard to see them as bullshit, tho often the mind will cling to the identity of suffering and see it as real in itself, that occurs when there is an absence of awareness or non-attachment.

And that differs from Eckhart Tolle's book p. 246 exactly how? LOL, just kidding, I do not disagree although absence of awareness would mean being unconscious, no?

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:

Cahoot wrote:Why, you can think about any old thing you want. Any old thing at all. And in a little while you probably won't even remember what those thoughts were. Thinking is a natural function, just like breathing.

Then I'd suggest to breath deeper before your brain suffocates and you'd forget more of yesterday's thoughts. Birth, death, breath in, breath out: it's still suffering.

A presumption firmly rooted in ignorance, bolstered by arrogance, and as typical, ungraciously disseminated.

What is the path to end suffering?


Acceptance

Cahoot wrote:

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:

Cahoot wrote:Why, you can think about any old thing you want. Any old thing at all. And in a little while you probably won't even remember what those thoughts were. Thinking is a natural function, just like breathing.

Then I'd suggest to breath deeper before your brain suffocates and you'd forget more of yesterday's thoughts. Birth, death, breath in, breath out: it's still suffering.

A presumption firmly rooted in ignorance, bolstered by arrogance, and as typical, ungraciously disseminated.

Where does it hurt Cahoot? You can tell me. It only hurts when it's misunderstood. And you gracefully misunderstand with every breath you take.

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:

Cahoot wrote:

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:

Cahoot wrote:Why, you can think about any old thing you want. Any old thing at all. And in a little while you probably won't even remember what those thoughts were. Thinking is a natural function, just like breathing.

Then I'd suggest to breath deeper before your brain suffocates and you'd forget more of yesterday's thoughts. Birth, death, breath in, breath out: it's still suffering.

A presumption firmly rooted in ignorance, bolstered by arrogance, and as typical, ungraciously disseminated.

Where does it hurt Cahoot? You can tell me. It only hurts when it's misunderstood. And you gracefully misunderstand with every breath you take.

Well, you're augmented the presentation of yourself as sneering fool with a kind of creepy weird.

But we accept that, and deal with what presents, albeit with judicious splashings of disinfectant.

Laugh with me now. Haw haw haw haw.

Cahoot wrote:Well, you're augmented the presentation of yourself as sneering fool with a kind of creepy weird.

Yes, that's life for you, hurting, sneering, foolish, creepy and weird. Yet you deny, resist. And I'm bringing it to you gently. You can thank me later!

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:

Cahoot wrote:Well, you're augmented the presentation of yourself as sneering fool with a kind of creepy weird.

Yes, that's life for you, hurting, sneering, foolish, creepy and weird. Yet you deny, resist. And I'm bringing it to you gently. You can thank me later!

Not exactly. Not life.

But hey, don't worry about it. Takes all kinds. Laugh a little. Your so-called "serious" makes intelligent folks chuckle, you know.

Beingof1

I completely agree and had previously been tossing up between ideas I saw as rejection or acceptance. Good to see others are of t he same mindset with acceptance.

Moving always

Did you say we had control over our actions and how we respond/progress? I was under the impression everything we say or think or do, even enlightenment, involved no free choice whatsoever.

What are you accepting?

A condition?

waving the white flag?