GENIUS FORUMS

A moment of frankness.....the moment I was enlightened I have not been the same. As I stood there realizing that my name and life was a dream story, that I had never done anything at all, or ever moved, or ever had experienced a yesterday or a tomorrow, nor had ever sinned or been born, or lived in a family... I saw that I was beyond purity, and, alone in the entire universe, I was god - the universal pristine consciousness.

What was I to do after that? I had no idea. I moped around after that night for a while to try to 'get back there.' Nothing worked, and life became more intolerable than ever....a 'dark age' closed in on me. My vampire years.

And then, some years later, I realized one day that I was still experiencing what I had experienced in that great flash of insight. It was all still there. And then I entered a new phase. From that view, nothing mattered to me at all. I was so utterly indifferent about anything that I believe I might have died. I don't know. I suppose I would have eaten or avoided obvious pain, but still, from that view, even that did not matter. I could have sat on a park bench all day and looked at birds. Just looking straight at my own being alone I was completely content.

But the problem was this: I had a family, a job, a house, cars, bills....etc. I was seeing two worlds at once. One in which nothing existed, and one where all the old scripts were running on. I saw that if I accepted the old script, it made no difference to the other view - as nothing made any difference to it. It was always there now. So, I concluded to live the old life. My reasoning was this: the old life was running off of old causes I had no idea about, these had created circumstances that kept the old boy moving and hustling around. So, I just let it all happen. Whatever this body wanted or needed to do, I did. Whatever needed to be done in a worldly way, I did that. I made money and paid for crap. I did not restrain myself in any way or follow any moral code. I was not even identifying with my personality and thoughts. They were all something I was just watching like they belonged to someone else. I just let whatever was destined to happen happen.

And so it is this person who comes here and does things. In just letting it all run, I find that I am losing interest in most things by its own weight. I don't grasp after things quite the same way as before. There is no effort at all or any preconceived ideas about what I ought to do. It occurs to me that if this continued for a few more lives, I would probably end up meditating in a cave all day in some future life....or perhaps live as a farmer doing real basic stuff. I have no idea. But I am increasingly indifferent, and it almost seems that my 'inside' life is seeping out into my 'outside' life. I see so many pros and cons and good and bad to all things that I am just becoming quite indifferent - and this is apparent to the personality now. The answer to everything appears to be yes and no.

There are times when doing nothing is quite fine with me. Sometimes I wonder what sort of world I prefer out there. When I look upon the world and people, they seem far more vested in their 'identity' like they are desperate to be somebody or achieve preeminence. I am out of that game completely. I don't know if the world can be any different than it is, though. I don't think so because they would have to see what I have seen. You could still do stuff after that, make things, have fun, date, raise families....but there would be a different quality to people. A zen quality, more authentic and sincere - perhaps more absurd also. It is all quite absurd.

I found when I just let the personality go wild that I wanted to fight with everyone.....and, I needed more sex- weird sex, and more drugs and alcohol. The beast wanted out. So I let it out. All the deep subconscious motivations were coming right out front. I let it happen. I watched the demons and ghosts come out. It was all fine with me. When the devil comes out he murders a few people and has his tantrums, but then even he gets tired and sits down. This process is mellowing out now for sure. I am losing my fighting spirit.

I am even losing my taste for bothering anyone here. Anyway, that is the full story. And here I am. I don't even care what you call it or what name you give to it. I think it's a good thing. It's been good for me, and now I have no questions. I feel like I am every man who ever lived. Funny, I am everyone and no one. That's cool.

wow, you might just be the patron saint of post-modernist burnouts.

Next...

It's empty and meaningless
THAT
it's empty and meaningless

frank

frank wrote:It's empty and meaningless
THAT
it's empty and meaningless

frank

What is?

all humans look for meaning in their lives, like you do

many find them one way or another

are they real? are they fake? one may never know

so why don't you find one?

Unwise, indeed it's a good thing. But you might want to consider you're just starting, after dropping a lot. Drop the idea that you might have been enlightened, just for the fun of it, if for nothing else. There's still a road left to go, if you can find it in 'yourself' to walk upon it. Become a starter, not merely an ender.

Unwise:

I feel like I am every man who ever lived. Funny, I am everyone and no one.

Nothing funny or even strange about that, but I would ask myself… Who is actually feeling or thinking ‘I am everyone and no one’? Is it logically possible to be all and one at the same time while I know that it is a self-centered thought? A subjective experience which necessarily needs a subject.

Then there are those who feel not only this, but actually being everything in existence, but even so, they cannot segregate the one that is experiencing it, step back, and actually look at it, because it will necessarily be a self-centered activity. So what does that say? Is it possible to be two things at the same time, or no thing sometimes? I don’t think so, although it is very much possible to think or feel so, which could be a very mind boggling experience, leading to interpreting it according to what is already known, or leading to further questioning the experience itself, but there is always the just one who is thinking and feeling it for sure.

Now there is no reason to even assume that this feeling proves a universal consciousness even if each and every one of us thinks and feels the same, because thinking consciousness needs the existence of a particularly complex enough thing, and not just any thing or all things put together. It does not necessarily have to be some conscious external force working from within, even if there is, I could best call it energy, but that by its self cannot think. We simply assume that this force could be “consciousness” since we see it in us and cannot believe that consciousness could arise just from a bunch of atoms and electro-chemical energy. We assume consciousness to be too fantastic to be so. I could say that Nature is intelligent, but Nature cannot think. Nature does create a consciously thinking thing, but it does not intend it so.

I second Diebert, there is much open road ahead.

.

Actually, to tell you the truth, after all of these stark realizations and experiences, I am quite happy to live a normal life. THAT seems like a miracle to me. And, without suppressed subconscious urges and demands, life is much easier. There is not the existential wondering and worrying of my soul and neither is there the extreme drama of the subconscious. The after effects are calming and humbling. To me, eating a cup cake is the same as traveling across the universe in a UFO. It is all amazing to me. I don't find a clear view of the void any different than petting my cat.

Unwise,

You're full of it. Take Diebert's advice, and think of yourself as unenlightened. It will get you further than all of your delusional thinking will.

Unwise:
According to me, a greater miracle is being conscious itself, being able to actually experience, irrelevant of what that experience may be, including the stark ones, for how else could you really find normal life really miraculous?

the moment I was enlightened I have not been the same.

I find the eastern idea of religious "enlightenment" rather silly and pretentious, myself. But, even as I scoff at Buddhism, for instance, at least it never claims that men should assume they have ever become "enlightened" and that it is a constant struggle and learning exercise that will never be complete.

So, in that light, I would think that those who imagine they have become enlightened have come no where near the reality of the matter.

So. Mark me down as agreeing with those who say you should stop running around telling people you are enlightened.

Would a truly wise and elightened man be so blown away by a cupcake? Even equating it to taking a ride on a UFO?

How lame.

Unwise, you sound like your still not only stuck on the aesthetic mode of being, but indulging in it to an abnormal degree.

I would say that Quinn was right when he said that you have confused the primal oceanic child-consciousness (the sort of consciousness that can be brought about through drug use, the sort of consciousness that is rapt in awe, wonder and aesthetic enjoyment) with a more grown up mature consciousness (that you evidently have no consciousness of).

I would say that Quinn was right when he said that you have confused the primal oceanic child-consciousness (the sort of consciousness that can be brought about through drug use, the sort of consciousness that is rapt in awe, wonder and aesthetic enjoyment) with a more grown up mature consciousness (that you evidently have no consciousness of).

I know quite well what it is like to see taint everywhere I cast my gaze. To see no wonder. To see ruination and death and 'illusion' all around. To hate life. To see it all as false and gross. To want it all to go away. Yes, I understand your view quiet well. I lived that way most of my life - the 'adult' view. Enjoy it; you can have it. It was only after the world totally disappeared for me, that I gained a whole new appreciation of what had disappeared.

Unwise,

I'm glad that you're starting to be a little more open about your life. However, I still have a number of problems with your story and current viewpoint.

For example, you wrote:

A moment of frankness.....the moment I was enlightened I have not been the same. As I stood there realizing that my name and life was a dream story, that I had never done anything at all, or ever moved, or ever had experienced a yesterday or a tomorrow, nor had ever sinned or been born, or lived in a family... I saw that I was beyond purity, and, alone in the entire universe, I was god - the universal pristine consciousness.

What was I to do after that? I had no idea. I moped around after that night for a while to try to 'get back there.' Nothing worked, and life became more intolerable than ever....a 'dark age' closed in on me. My vampire years.

And then, some years later, I realized one day that I was still experiencing what I had experienced in that great flash of insight. It was all still there. And then I entered a new phase. From that view, nothing mattered to me at all. I was so utterly indifferent about anything that I believe I might have died. I don't know. I suppose I would have eaten or avoided obvious pain, but still, from that view, even that did not matter. I could have sat on a park bench all day and looked at birds. Just looking straight at my own being alone I was completely content.

But the problem was this: I had a family, a job, a house, cars, bills....etc. I was seeing two worlds at once. One in which nothing existed, and one where all the old scripts were running on. I saw that if I accepted the old script, it made no difference to the other view - as nothing made any difference to it. It was always there now. So, I concluded to live the old life. My reasoning was this: the old life was running off of old causes I had no idea about, these had created circumstances that kept the old boy moving and hustling around. So, I just let it all happen. Whatever this body wanted or needed to do, I did. Whatever needed to be done in a worldly way, I did that. I made money and paid for crap. I did not restrain myself in any way or follow any moral code. I was not even identifying with my personality and thoughts. They were all something I was just watching like they belonged to someone else. I just let whatever was destined to happen happen.

And so it is this person who comes here and does things. In just letting it all run, I find that I am losing interest in most things by its own weight.

This increasing indifference towards the world seems to be at odds with your dualistic view that the world and the state of Purusha (pure consciousness) are equally real. Indeed, you are saying that you are steadily regarding the world to be increasingly unreal. The end-result of this process, I would assume, is that you will see the world as completely unreal, leaving the state of Purusha as the one true reality.

To remain consistent with your dualistic worldview, shouldn't you be as equally passionate about the world as you are about the state of Purusha?

How do you deal with this dilemma?

-

This increasing indifference towards the world seems to be at odds with your dualistic view that the world and the state of Purusha (pure consciousness) are equally real. Indeed, you are saying that you are steadily regarding the world to be increasingly unreal.

Well, I view the Purusha and Prikriti as equally real, although the Prikriti (universe) does display duality within itself all over the place. Yes, it is magical and mysterious. When I say 'I am loosing interest' I think I mean doing the things people normally do. I am losing interest in other people, for sure. I find the ego unpleasant to deal with. I am fond of animals, and I am always in awe of the manifestations in nature. It's just the usual human entertainments and mutual contact that I am losing interest in. I think this is due to the stinkiness of the ego. For some reason, I find myself pitted against the ego; It is like a wooden puppet making fun of the ventriloquist.

The end-result of this process, I would assume, is that you will see the world as completely unreal, leaving the state of Purusha as the one true reality.

From the viewpoint of Purusha, Prikriti is indeed unreal. From the viewpoint of Prikriti (normal human consciousness) Purusha is unreal. I view them both as real since I am both and neither of them.

To remain consistent with your dualistic worldview, shouldn't you be as equally passionate about the world as you are about the state of Purusha?

Yes, I am in awe of both which is why I say a cup cake blows my mind. And, the nice thing about this is that there is no end to the world's manifestations, enjoyments, novelty, and things to learn. No end. Even for gods there is no end to learning and being amazed - and amused. The only thing I say I'm growing tired of is the usual human striving for the very temporal - and things to please the ego. When you are young you do many things simply to show off. Now I would only do things that are enjoyments in themselves. I am as happy with the success or skill of another as I am with my own. On the other hand, I can make an easy transition into Purusha and stare out into space with enjoyment. I could be happy in jail. I can be happy in both states.

Unwise,

DQ: This increasing indifference towards the world seems to be at odds with your dualistic view that the world and the state of Purusha (pure consciousness) are equally real. Indeed, you are saying that you are steadily regarding the world to be increasingly unreal.

Unwise: Well, I view the Purusha and Prikriti as equally real, although the Prikriti (universe) does display duality within itself all over the place.

At this very moment, you may be perceiving Purusha and Prikriti as equally real, but as you state below, at other times you perceive each of them, in turn, as being unreal. So which is it to be? Are they both real? Or are they both unreal? Or is only one of them real and the other unreal?

From the viewpoint of Purusha, Prikriti is indeed unreal. From the viewpoint of Prikriti (normal human consciousness) Purusha is unreal. I view them both as real since I am both and neither of them.

If you are, in this very moment, viewing both of them as real, then it would mean you are currently adopting a third perspective on the matter. You cannot, at this moment, be viewing things from Purusha, for that would make you see Prikriti as unreal. And you cannot be viewing things from Prikriti either, for that would make you see Purusha as unreal. So you must be viewing the pair of them from some other perspective which comes from some other place. It would mean that you currently consider this third place as being more real than either Purusha or Prikriti. So what is this third place?

When I say 'I am loosing interest' I think I mean doing the things people normally do. I am losing interest in other people, for sure. I find the ego unpleasant to deal with. I am fond of animals, and I am always in awe of the manifestations in nature. It's just the usual human entertainments and mutual contact that I am losing interest in. I think this is due to the stinkiness of the ego. For some reason, I find myself pitted against the ego; It is like a wooden puppet making fun of the ventriloquist.

Human egotism is also a manifestation of nature. At root, it is just as natural and as awe-inspiring as animal behaviour is. So why do you discriminate between them, calling one of them disgusting and the other wonderful? They are all part of the magic and mystery of Prikriti, wouldn't you agree?

DQ: To remain consistent with your dualistic worldview, shouldn't you be as equally passionate about the world as you are about the state of Purusha?

U: Yes, I am in awe of both which is why I say a cup cake blows my mind. And, the nice thing about this is that there is no end to the world's manifestations, enjoyments, novelty, and things to learn. No end. Even for gods there is no end to learning and being amazed - and amused. The only thing I say I'm growing tired of is the usual human striving for the very temporal - and things to please the ego. When you are young you do many things simply to show off. Now I would only do things that are enjoyments in themselves.

Well, you're still pleasing your ego there. Pursuing things for enjoyment's sake - such as a sunset or a piece of music or an experience of Purusha - is still a case of trying to please the ego. Pleasuring the ego comes in many different forms - focusing on the vain pursuit of trying to enhance one's reputation and status in the world is just one of them. Other forms include being pleased about how endlessly rich the world is with its many sources of amusment, and indulging in the pleasures of mysticism. This is all still in the realm of egotism.

-

unwise wrote: Finally, if I am mistaken, it has at least provided me with a model that seems to work very well in understanding the world. Also, it has had a deep psychological calming effect. You may call this a 'benumbing.' Perhaps. But it has certainly taken away the common fears of the ego, because I saw that I could exist without the ego - or that the ego was not important - or a dream etc. I can fully imagine another existence in which a new body is obtained, a new brain is built, a new ego is installed....and 'I' would return just as now. So it is clear to me that I cannot die. What is clear to me is that this existence cannot be extinguished and neither can the experiencer.

I am like a man having a lucid dream. I see that the world is a dream, 'I' am not the protagonist in the dream because I'm in bed - not in the dream at all. I act in the dream as though everything is normal, but where is my deep fear? How can I have any? Also, not fearing, the dream is even more beautiful to me - a miracle of my own creation. The star fish is totally blowing my mind.....and the cup cake.

Why would I want to throw all of that out?

When frank lays his body to sleep at night, his mind is full of frank's concerns, and as these concerns trail off like wisps of smoke and vanish...frank is empty and frank dreams of 'rushing thru' tunnels'...of flying in space with hair pushed back...of frank experiencing himself as simply a 'pair of eyes' gazing at planets 'hanging' in space...of 'soaring like an eagle' looking down at picturesque villages esconced in valleys, rising mountains, green fields...of diving for sunken treasure in warm, pristine waters...of making love to beautiful women...of feeling love...
Palpable, vibrant, luminous, rich.

And as frank stirs the 'dreams' trail off like wisps of smoke and vanish and frank is empty.

and as if on cue, frank remembers frank...frank enters frank's mind as a memory stream...at first haltingly, jarringly 'til finally the complete picture of frank is remembered...

and frank greets frank warmly as he remembers the fun of being frank...

frank looks across at frank's wife and smiles at her and thinks 'how is it so?'....how generous of frank's wife to share her Life in this way...

frank rises and showers his body...shaves his face...and dresses in his costume...frank eats his 'diet' and slowly picks up the other pieces of the threads of frank's life that he had laid aside for a time...and soon it is all put together seamlessly and runs along nicely by itself...

and frank does his Life or his Life does frank...I forget...

and frank knows it's not a permanent situation...so each moment is appreciated as it appears and vanishes..never to return...

frank does his Life 'in order to' persist...it's OK..

frank thinks it's 'realistic' rather than 'real'....

frank goes along with it happily because frank trusts...

sometimes frank knows 'what happens next'...

frank has a certain rhythm that pleases frank...

frank's a player fersure..

it's not a problem.

Go frank!

frankie boy...who 'digs' the pictures unwise presents...

DQ - If you are, in this very moment, viewing both of them as real, then it would mean you are currently adopting a third perspective on the matter.

Yes, the enlightened ego, the 'good ego' is the third position. The entire game is viewed from the ego position. Human ego can only detect Prikriti, while 'good ego' perceives both Purusha and Prikriti - at the same time. When entirely absorbed in human ego (Prikriti), the Purusha is unreal. When absorbed (in Samadhi), Prikriti disappears. But the enlightenment position is the exact interface between the worlds.

Human egotism is also a manifestation of nature. At root, it is just as natural and as awe-inspiring as animal behavior is. So why do you discriminate between them, calling one of them disgusting and the other wonderful?

Human ego may very well be a stage of the game, or even a mutation, mistake or aberration - like a Siamese twin is sort of a mistake of nature. Because things are in some way necessary does not make them necessarily lovely. Jesus said of the human ego: "Get behind me Satan."

Because the human ego does not acknowledge Purusha - the very foundation of his consciousness - he is an ingrate.

Because the human ego perceives himself as the apex of creation - he is a moron.

Because the human ego desires domination - he is demonic.

Because the human ego supposes he himself is real - he is delusional.

Because the human ego supposes that ONLY he is real - he is arrogant. I try to stay clear of this dangerous MONSTER.

Well, you're still pleasing your ego there. Pursuing things for enjoyment's sake - such as a sunset or a piece of music or an experience of Purusha - is still a case of trying to please the ego.

It is my believe that reality's highest achievement is the creation of the enlightened mind. it is this mind that is finally able to enjoy. It is the purpose of life to enjoy and appreciate. The human ego mind is unable to either enjoy or appreciate. He is too obsessed with himself and death. He does not appreciate Prikriti because he has never seen it disappear. The purpose of nature is to create 'good ego' and it is the purpose of good ego to enjoy life. It is 'god' enjoying 'god.'