GENIUS FORUMS

When I said that I read your post and believed I understood it, I mean the structure of your words, the sentences. But you are very right: I do not at all get your essential message, and I have no idea at all how to extract it. I don't want to critique your prose but it is not at all easy to get. Like many who are attracted to this place, you seem to want to impart, and feel you can impart, certain 'keys' to consciousness or the deeper aspects of spirituality. You, as well as others here, have a deep love for abstractions. You seem to love hypothetical 'worlds' that you construct in your minds, like edifices in a cloudy realm. You define your spirituality in radically different terms than I do. I can only see and relate to spirituality that has tangible relationship to the life we live, and at the bottom it is ultimately, for me, about ethics. I am quite surprised at myself that I keep delving further and further into studies of the origins of Christianity. I have often wished that I abandon it, or lose interest. But more and more I am forced to see that this movement has so impacted 'our' consciousness that there is no way to get away from it. And I clearly see why it is that so many---the majority in fact---do not see that, cannot see it. I am not quite the pessimist you are as I think there IS value in discussing ideas, even these seeming 'academic ideas' which for David is 'hand-waving'. I come here in the hope of engaging---on some level---with such questions that, for me, have meaning and importance. But I think I understand that little of this holds much interest for you. Yours is another purpose. For me, what ultimately interests me, and terrifies me, is man himself. In this sense I am strictly humanistically oriented. I suppose that is one of the reasons I am attracted to Jewish and Christian personalism and why the subject is so compelling.

Genius Forums is about ultimate reality Alex, not fairy tales.
Understand?

"Already at age twenty he (Goethe) had decided that imitating Christ was meaningless. He thought you ought to locate the best part of yourself and imitate that." (Nicholas Boyle)

"Make yourself grow to a greatness beyond measure, by a bound free yourself from your body; raise yourself above all time, become eternity; then you will understand God." (William Blake)

You will also understand Jesus and the Buddha and Alexis and David and on and on and on.....

I do respect your position, and I clearly understand the magnetic draw historical religion pins your mind to. The first mistake you, as most others who read me make is to believe I am religious. If you must label me, then you must label me as the original humanist who no longer deal in the false belief, or assumption that repetition of expanding learned ideas of repetitious ideas will break the circle of false beliefs.

I live from the foundation Consciousness has an object that is subject to only Consciousness. Whether you know or realize it, your mentalism is also founded upon this principle. How? because all you do in thought and action is conscious initiated, yet not finalized because Conscious is infinite in the infinity of Consciousness. What do I mean? The very intake of these words to you ride the infinity of your moment of conscious awareness. To revive them is the eternality of this moment now, which is the same moment of intake within you that has not died but expanded your intake of this continuum of the moment of you.

There is no value in discussing ideas that does not cause one to realize ideas are pointers of expanding ones mind beyond the belief of them being a reality. Always the truth of any individual is found in the eternal word of continuum. The eternal word is never a recall. It is always an extension of expansion of the eternality of now. The eternality of now is the object of Consciousness. For and individual to comprehend the reality of who they are, the must comprehend the are the eternal life of all they are right now. There is no humanism, no God, no wisdom, nothing beyond you now. All your ideas, values, integrity, hopes, faith, all that you are is in the word of your eternal eternality of your conscious awareness now. There is no other moment of you but this moment now of the infinity of you.

So what are you truly aware of? And what are you going to do about it? Is there anything you can do to alter the object of Consciousness?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

Dennis Mahar wrote:Genius Forums is about ultimate reality Alex, not fairy tales.
Understand?

Ultimate Reality is a fairy tale, Dennis.

Corner Bakery

"Mornin', Mac!"
"This Morning is just a subjective reflection of the Consciousness that expresses it..."
"Er..alright. Would you care for a pastry?"
"Two strudel, please".
"Very good, Mac, you got it. Still warm!"
"The loveliness of this strudel is only a manifestation of the Loveliness in original Conscioiusness".
"Well, I suppose I couldn't disagree there...How 'bout those Yankees, huh!?"
"Yankees?"
"The baseball team, buddy"
"There is no value in discussing ideas that do not cause one to realize that ideas are pointers to expanding ones mind beyond the belief of them being a reality."
"Well, I don't MYSELF believe them always..."
"...Always the truth of any individual is found in the eternal word of continuum."
"Hmmmm. I like that. Just going round and round and round the diamond eternally. It bores some people..."
"...The eternal word is never a recall..."
"Oh I get it! You're a METS fan! Did you hear the Mets recalled D.J. Carrasco from Triple-A Buffalo and optioned Dale Thayer on Sunday in a swap of right-handers for the bullpen?"
"???"
"Well, they did, they really did. And this has certainly upped Carruscos trade value, which was in doubt you know, under the circumstances..."
(Taking stock of himself)..."For and individual to comprehend the reality of who they are, the must comprehend that they are the eternal life of all they are right now."
"Alright, mac: I'm a baker and a baseball fanatic, and you're saying I'll be this ETERNALLY?! (Aside) Hey Judith! Did you hear this? I'm going to be a baseball nut in Heaven baking pastries for JESUS!"
Judith (absently, from the back): "That's nice, honey...I'm sure He'll 'preciate em..."
"...There is no humanism, no God, no wisdom, nothing beyond you now."
(Cautiously) "Well, yeah. (Under breath) You know, Mac, I agree with that, I really do. (Whispering hoarsely) It's my WIFE, see? She's a religious NUT if you must know. (Chirpily) You want coffee too?"
"Sure. Black, one sugar."
(Ebulliently) "Alright, here ya go!""
(Sips)..."All your ideas, values, integrity, hopes, faith, all that you are is in the word of your eternal eternality of your conscious awareness now."
" 'Eternal eternality?' (Ponders, waxes nostalgic). "Yeah well, I suppose you're right. (Recovers) "But did you hear Yankees outfielder Nick Swisher's romance with 'Gossip Girl' star Joanna Garcia is gettin' serious? The pair were lookin' REAL LOVEY-DOVEY at the QVC Style-Party and fashion show the other night at Bryant Park...Some guy's got all the luck, eh?"
"...There is no other moment of you but this moment now of the infinity of YOU."
(Looks squarely at him, puzzled, then concerned) "Mac...do you...do you get out much?"
"...I live from the foundation that Consciousness has an object that is subject to only Consciousness."
"Yeah? That, uh, makes sense. Gotta live SOMEWHERE. 'Consciousness has an object that is only subject to consciousness' I can't argue AGAINST it, that's for sure. But, did you hear that Bartolo Colon strained his hamstring covering first base on a ground ball this past Saturday? OUCH!"

[et cetera et cetera]

Sorry Jufa, I couldn't resist. I just tried to put some of your rap (?) into a mundane context. I believe that I grasp that you are referring to inner levels of consciousness, and to ideas about origins which you manage and explain, but I honestly cannot relate to it. What would a conversation be like between two people who had internalized such a view and such a dialogue?

[et cetera et cetera]

Sorry Jufa, I couldn't resist. I just tried to put some of your rap (?) into a mundane context. I believe that I grasp that you are referring to inner levels of consciousness, and to ideas about origins which you manage and explain, but I honestly cannot relate to it. What would a conversation be like between two people who had internalized such a view and such a dialogue?

No need to be sorry, made me smile, as I am doing now. I found all the characters in the rap plot, as the elements of objects all a part of your expanded conscious awareness of a conception now finding the fullness of time to be birthed, not from recall, but what emerges as your chidren of objective subjection.

What would a conversation be like between two people who had internalized such a view and such a dialogue?

You moot your question by your conversation with you. Is not your inner conversation that of your Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personalities?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strengdth - jufa

p.s. I notice you are attempting to divert your attention from my questions. Perhapsour next exchange will be your rap answering them.

Alexis Jacobi wrote:However, the very notion of having 'fallen' is not universal, or is it? I've seen cosmologies in which the myth described emerging upwards, from a darker, underground world into a brighter, better world. And your reading is certainly 'post-Christian', as is mine. And while it is true that a parable can be read 'universally', it has also to be considered 'locally' and specifically.

In all cosmologies you'll find the concept of evil with its related sin or erring (any deviation from the "Way") to be delivered from, no matter if it's by mediation of spirits, gods or ancestors,ritual or medication. This deliverance would not make sense if the evil would not be seen as a form of interruption of what is considered the formerly natural and good. Without hope on or belief in restoration, the whole exercise would just not happen.

The differences between lets say the more tribal belief in a temporary curse or interruption of the balance, and the more intricate understanding of the human condition as one of suffering or ignorance caused by the conflicts of interests of the increasingly civil, differentiated being, should not be exaggerated. Civil life has moved from existing mostly in a some physical plane with its immediate concerns toward existing in a mental plane, which is not a real different plane (as if there could be some kind of division) but more comparable with the difference between a small village and a metropolis.

What remains is the concept of evil as pattern and the attempts to understand its causes and the emerging teaching about how to address this. One could also say: diseases rise with their cures. Hence the notion of the sacrificial.

to David wrote:Well, what actually happens---please forgive me---is that you make a fool of yourself. It is unfortunate, really unfortunate.

It would be your turn to interpret the following parable, please indulge!

• The next Sabbath Jesus began teaching in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed. They asked, "Where did he get all this wisdom and the power to perform such mighty work?" Then they scoffed, "He's just a carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon. And his sisters live right here among us." They were deeply offended and refused to believe in him. Then Jesus told them, "A prophet is honored everywhere except in his own hometown and among his relatives and his own family." And because of their unbelief, he couldn't do any miracles among them except to place his hands on a few sick people and heal them. And he was amazed at their unbelief. Then Jesus went from village to village, teaching the people. (- Mark 6)

David Quinn wrote:He [Jesus] was more like the Buddhas of old who "seized dung-shovels to rid themselves of all such rubbish as metaphysics and sophistry". That's what comes across to me from the Gospels, that Jesus was down-to-earth, direct, practical and entirely devoid of theosophy.

The notion of a man being beaten up and mistreated and left for dead as the side of the road seems to me a good example of how down-to-earth and direct he tried to get his point about the human condition across. The context of healing the blind and lame, resurrecting the dead and to "leave the dead burying the dead" were meant literal; this is probably exactly how he saw it: people appearing moronic, fractured, damaged, beaten up, barely alive and continuously in great stress and conflict: ignorance. The only metaphysics left are all the far-out stories many have come to call their "reel life".

But that is not a parable, Diebert. To say, "A prophet is not without honor except in his native place and among his own kin and in his own house" is really just a declaration of contextual fact. It seems pretty transparent to me, in the context of the narrative that is. But if you MUST know, I begin to perceive that David plays a role similar to Paul's: an antogonistic relationship to the Jerusalem Church. David, unknowingly, is a Pauline figure. Paul had no connection at all to the living person Yeshua and his knowledge (and his mission) came through his 'vision'.

Diebert wrote: ...people appearing moronic, fractured, damaged, beaten up, barely alive and continuously in great stress and conflict: ignorance.

And these people who are moronic, fractured, beaten and barely alive: when they receive the doctrine (energy) that brings them Life, what do they then do? What do they do with themselves and their lives? (Fly up into the clouds? Mumble abstractions?)

Can you portray what happens to them? Like on a time-line?

Here's another little jewel for your delight:

Unmasking of a Confidence Man

AT LAST, ABOUT TEN o'clock at night, I came to the doorway of the fine house where I was invited to spend the evening, after the man beside me, whom I was barely acquainted with and who had once again thrust himself unasked upon me, had marched me for two long hours around the streets.

'Well!' I said, and clapped my hands to show that I really had to bid him goodbye. I had already made several less explicit attempts to get rid of him. I was tired out. 'Are you going straight in?' he asked. I heard a sound in his mouth that was like the snapping of teeth. 'Yes.'

I had been invited out, I told him when I met him. But it was to enter a house where I longed to be that I had been invited, not to stand here at the street door looking past the ears of the man before me. Nor to fall silent with him, as if we were doomed to stay for a long time on this spot. And yet the houses around us at once took a share in our silence, and the darkness over them, all the way up to the stars. And the steps of invisible passers-by, which one could not take the trouble to elucidate, and the wind persistently buffeting the other side of the street, and a gramophone singing behind the closed windows of some room---they all announced themselves in this silence, as if it were their own possession for the time past and to come.

And my companion subscribed to it in his own name and ---with a smile---in mine too, stretched his right arm up along the wall and leaned his cheek upon it, shutting his eyes.

But I did not wait to see the end of that smile, for shame suddenly caught hold of me. It had needed that smile to let me know that the man was a confidence trickster, nothing else. And yet I had been months in the town and thought I knew all about confidence tricksters, how they came slinking out of side streets by night to meet us with outstretched hands like tavernkeepers, how they haunted the advertisement pillars we stood beside, sliding around them as if playing hide-and-seek and spying on us with at least one eye, how they suddenly appeared on the curb of the pavement at cross-streets when we were hesitating! I understood them so well, they were the first acquaintances I had made in the town's small taverns, and to them I owed my first inkling of a ruthless hardness which I was now so conscious of, everywhere on earth, that I was even beginning to feel it in myself. How persistently they blocked our way, even when we had long shaken ourselves free, even when, that is, they had nothing more to hope for! How they refused to give up, to admit defeat, but kept shooting glances at us that even from a distance were still compelling! And the means they employed were always the same: they planted themselves before us, looking as large as possible, tried to hinder us from going where we purposed, offered us instead a habitation in their own bosoms, and when at last all our balked feelings rose in revolt they welcomed that like an embrace into which they threw themselves face foremost.

And it had taken me such a long time in this man's company to recognize the same old game. I rubbed my finger tips together to wipe away the disgrace.

My companion was still leaning there as before, still believing himself a successful trickster, and his self-complacency glowed pink on his free cheek.

'Caught in the act!' said I, tapping him lightly on the shoulder. Then I ran up the steps, and the disinterested devotion on the servants' faces in the hall delighted me like an unexpected treat. I looked at them all, one after another, while they took my greatcoat off and wiped my shoes clean.

With a deep breath of relief and straightening myself to my full height, I then entered the drawing room.

---Franz Kafka

WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THE WORLD IF ALL THOUGHT AS SUCH? - Einstein

"How strange is the lot of us mortals! Each of us is here for a brief sojourn; for what purpose he knows not, though he sometimes thinks he senses it. But without deeper reflection one knows from daily life that one exists for other people -- first of all for those upon whose smiles and well-being our own happiness is wholly dependent, and then for the many, unknown to us, to whose destinies we are bound by the ties of sympathy. A hundred times every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving..
"I have never looked upon ease and happiness as ends in themselves -- this critical basis I call the ideal of a pigsty. The ideals that have lighted my way, and time after time have given me new courage to face life cheerfully, have been Kindness, Beauty, and Truth. Without the sense of kinship with men of like mind, without the occupation with the objective world, the eternally unattainable in the field of art and scientific endeavors, life would have seemed empty to me. The trite objects of human efforts -- possessions, outward success, luxury -- have always seemed to me contemptible.
"My passionate sense of social justice and social responsibility has always contrasted oddly with my pronounced lack of need for direct contact with other human beings and human communities. I am truly a 'lone traveler' and have never belonged to my country, my home, my friends, or even my immediate family, with my whole heart; in the face of all these ties, I have never lost a sense of distance and a need for solitude..."

"My political ideal is democracy. Let every man be respected as an individual and no man idolized. It is an irony of fate that I myself have been the recipient of excessive admiration and reverence from my fellow-beings, through no fault, and no merit, of my own. The cause of this may well be the desire, unattainable for many, to understand the few ideas to which I have with my feeble powers attained through ceaseless struggle. I am quite aware that for any organization to reach its goals, one man must do the thinking and directing and generally bear the responsibility. But the led must not be coerced, they must be able to choose their leader. In my opinion, an autocratic system of coercion soon degenerates; force attracts men of low morality... The really valuable thing in the pageant of human life seems to me not the political state, but the creative, sentient individual, the personality; it alone creates the noble and the sublime, while the herd as such remains dull in thought and dull in feeling.
"This topic brings me to that worst outcrop of herd life, the military system, which I abhor... This plague-spot of civilization ought to be abolished with all possible speed. Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism -- how passionately I hate them!
"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it and can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed. It was the experience of mystery -- even if mixed with fear -- that engendered religion. A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, our perceptions of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which only in their most primitive forms are accessible to our minds: it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute true religiosity. In this sense, and only this sense, I am a deeply religious man... I am satisfied with the mystery of life's eternity and with a knowledge, a sense, of the marvelous structure of existence -- as well as the humble attempt to understand even a tiny portion of the Reason that manifests itself in nature."

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa
__._,_.___

Alexis Jacobi wrote:But that is not a parable, Diebert. To say, "A prophet is not without honor except in his native place and among his own kin and in his own house" is really just a declaration of contextual fact.

Contextual facts supply a never-ending stream of powerful parables. But I personally prefer stories about King Arthur and his round of knights.

Paul had no connection at all to the living person Yeshua and his knowledge (and his mission) came through his 'vision'.

You have it the wrong way around: Paul's historicity, background, life, name and character is more grounded in "contextual fact" than some "Yeshua". This is the reason he is less revered in general and way more criticized: hate-filled small man, teacher of the Lie, etc. Perhaps the dynamic here would make another fine parable ;-)

And these people who are moronic, fractured, beaten and barely alive: when they receive the doctrine (energy) that brings them Life, what do they then do?

Know that it doesn't matter. Know above all. All starts and ends with knowing. Knowing something equals breathing something.

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:Know that it doesn't matter. Know above all. All starts and ends with knowing. Knowing something equals breathing something.

I think you got that answer completely wrong, but you deliberately side-stepped the question. It's actually a form of bad-faith. The real answer, the obvious answer, the necessary answer is: the moronic begin to get some intelligence, some help in getting it. The fractured begin to put themselves back together again and try to understand how fracturing came about. The beaten and the wounded get help for those tangible wounds, or do you, Diebert the Samaritan, go up to the wounded man and say 'You know, old friend, this really doesn't matter...'

The whole message has to do with engagement, and I have a feeling that is 'the Key to the Realm'. (Which is why, despite innumerable problems in locating the historical or the theological Yeshua, the personalism of Christianity remains relevant).

ON PARABLES by Franz Kafka

MANY COMPLAIN THAT THE WORDS of the wise are always merely parables and of no use in daily life, which is the only life we have. When the sage says: "Go over," he does not mean that we should cross over to some actual place, which we could do anyhow if the labor were worth it; he means some fabulous yonder, something unknown to us, something too that he cannot designate more precisely, and therefore cannot help us here in the very least. All these parables really set out to say merely that the incomprehensible is incomprehensible, and we know that already. But the cares we have to struggle with every day: that is a different matter.

Concerning this a man once said: Why such reluctance? If you only followed the parables you yourselves would become parables and with that rid yourself of all your daily cares.

Another said: I bet that is also a parable.

The first said: You have won.

The second said: But unfortunately only in parable.

The first said: No, in reality: in parable you have lost.
____________________________________________________

jufa wrote:So what are you truly aware of? And what are you going to do about it? Is there anything you can do to alter the object of Consciousness?

What do you mean by 'truly'? One can only do what one does. Yes!

jufa wrote:

So what are you truly aware of? And what are you going to do about it? Is there anything you can do to alter the object of Consciousness?

What do you mean by 'truly' Truly, you don't truly know? ? One can only do what one does. What is that? Yes! How?

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. You must be a Dodger fan. Sorry Alexis, couldn't truly stop myself

Never give power to anything a person (truly) believes is their source of strength - jufa

Alexis Jacobi wrote:

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:Know that it doesn't matter. Know above all. All starts and ends with knowing. Knowing something equals breathing something.

I think you got that answer completely wrong, but you deliberately side-stepped the question.

Yes, but you got the answer you deserved as you don't seem to question your question.

The real answer, the obvious answer, the necessary answer is: the moronic begin to get some intelligence, some help in getting it.

And how do you give "intelligence" to a beaten man dying at the side of knowledge street? Obviously knowing "above all" does not mean a call for not knowing anything at all. But first one has to know the situation, giving the moron some intelligence so he might realize in what kind of shape he really is and how that informs his being and acting.

The fractured begin to put themselves back together again and try to understand how fracturing came about.

Such analysis leads more often than not to more subtile fracturing and then perhaps to more analysis, although the process seems to sooth some folks. But we're fractured to begin with!

The beaten and the wounded get help for those tangible wounds, or do you, Diebert the Samaritan, go up to the wounded man and say 'You know, old friend, this really doesn't matter...'

Again: it, your phrasing, your aim here, doesn't matter. Obviously suffering matters to someone who suffers (it matters by definition: pain as indicator red light). But we were talking about how to move things forward, how to pick someone up from the side of the road. Something has "got to go".

The whole message has to do with engagement, and I have a feeling that is 'the Key to the Realm'. (Which is why, despite innumerable problems in locating the historical or the theological Yeshua, the personalism of Christianity remains relevant).

Like with so many religions and cults, one element, one side-effect, one symbol has become revered, stripped from any context it has become "essence", in this case the idea of charity and care for the poor and sick. Any developed state deals with this, it's only historical Christianity which has turned it into a fetish, an overpowering sentiment to hide its twisted power handling under. As a result, the Judeo-Christian result really, we're looking at a deeply schizophrenic culture.

If someone is suffering, but do not have the wisdom of why or how, nor do they want the wisdom of why or how, help can still be given by the compassionate sage, if indeed, help is requested. Wisdom-Compassion does not exclude the ignorant, for every touch of help given that is free of the concept of self is a seed of wisdom planted.

There is no need to speak of metaphysical 'things' while planting seeds of wisdom; the compassionate sage knows what is needed for every man's awakening without revealing his role as the conduit for the awakening.

Diebert wrote: Like with so many religions and cults, one element, one side-effect, one symbol has become revered, stripped from any context it has become "essence", in this case the idea of charity and care for the poor and sick. Any developed state deals with this, it's only historical Christianity which has turned it into a fetish, an overpowering sentiment to hide its twisted power handling under. As a result, the Judeo-Christian result really, we're looking at a deeply schizophrenic culture.

When you speak, I too can hear your jaw snapping together you devilish trickster. The essence, and possibly the 'truly' (heh heh) core essence in Christianity and Judaism rises out of and ultimately flows back to prophetic values. Jeremiah, Isaiah, Amos, Hosea, etc. (Here is a nifty list of the different levels of prophets for those who care, or don't care as the case may be...) I would argue that Christianity, despite almost insuperable defects, remains 'relevant' because it has, however attenuated, a 'living link' to the energy of the values of the prophets.
I personally regard your statements about 'charity' as arising not from intelligent consideration of what it is, can be, should be, and how fundamental it is to any conversation about 'wisdom', but from basic ignorance. And as is usual, you turn on your sophistical machine which appears more and more like the preenings of a boy.

Naturally, this has (truly) been the essential thrust of my argument against this rather twisted, tendentious psuedo-philosophy of Absolutism.

And with that, using the Parable again as a reference-point, I would say, quite simply really, quite intuitively simply: the man in the ditch with his physical wounds is our own self, our selves, and every single aspect of our malaise---from the basic physical wound or cut in the flesh up to the most refined 'spiritual illness'---is in essence a wound in the flesh of the body, and there is no turning away from it, no staring coldly at it, no hyper-intellectualization of it, no abstracting of it.

It is exactly in this sense and in this area of concern where so-called 'spiritual life' begins and takes place, and any negation of the essential and basic problem, and failure to engage with it in one way or another, is a form of spiritual neurosis. Now, I eagerly await more chitter-chatter, blather, innane blubbering and mirror trickery, as you see fit...

True wisdom and compassion operate along the lines of 'Live and let live - Live and let die'. And surely they don't play into the present universal, blind, and non-discriminating 'savior' role or 'give 'em all a drink' mentality.

Alexis Jacobi wrote:I personally regard your statements about 'charity' as arising not from intelligent consideration of what it is, can be, should be, and how fundamental it is to any conversation about 'wisdom', but from basic ignorance. And as is usual, you turn on your sophistical machine which appears more and more like the preenings of a boy.

Talk about projection...

Bob wrote:True wisdom and compassion operate along the lines of 'Live and let live - Live and let die'. And surely they don't play into the present universal, blind, and non-discriminating 'savior' role or 'give 'em all a drink' mentality.

That is a typical, grandiose statement right along the lines of just about everything you write. One doesn't expect much more but endless quotations and wooden declarations, as if you are speaking into a mirror. But I differ with you in what you have expressed: one is because---though it is attractive to do so in an environment with so many accomplished Pontificators of Absolutism---you don't define what is wisdom. The statement itself is flawed, though not from the perspective of your abundant narcissism...

Also, to refer to a vague 'universal' is bad argumentation. I would rather suggest that, in however imperfect a form, humanistic concerns are at the core of our very selves, these selves fabricated in a long historical process that is our European matrix.

'Live and let live---Live and let die'...is a lie.
_____________________________________________________

Jupi, my Darling: disregard the fur & feathers and take up any substantial philosophical or spiritual point, as you see fit. But let it all hang out. Don't hold back.

Alexis Jacobi wrote:That is a typical, grandiose statement right along the lines of just about everything you write.

But I'm not the writer, Alexis. So you need to take your arguments and rebuttles to the Infinite.

Bob Michael wrote:True wisdom and compassion operate along the lines of 'Live and let live - Live and let die'. And surely they don't play into the present universal, blind, and non-discriminating 'savior' role or 'give 'em all a drink' mentality.

"The weak and the botched shall perish: first principle of our charity. And one should help them to it."

"What is more harmful than any vice?—Practical sympathy for the botched and the weak— Christianity….."

(Nietzsche)

Yet another unwashed neo-Nietzschean flares across the pages of the Genius Forums! You have many predecessors. A quote only has relevance up to a point, Bob. An abstracted quote of Nietzsche only has validity up to a point. Nietzsche's philosophical hammer is similar to Freud's psychological hammer: necessary at a prissy juncture for a repressed and hypocritical culture and to drive a message home. But the issue was not settled with Nietzsche's declarations.

And do you mean that these ideas, placed into quotes, are 'the Infinite' I am to take up my issue with? As if to say they have decended to Earth as divine dispensations? And you, I suppose, are just another long-suffering herald of the Infinite? (*laughs*)

Alexis, I (truly) like your style!!!

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

Alexis Jacobi wrote:Yet another unwashed neo-Nietzschean flares across the pages of the Genius Forums! You have many predecessors. A quote only has relevance up to a point, Bob. An abstracted quote of Nietzsche only has validity up to a point.

I feel quotes have revelance and validity to whomever they may have revelance and validity. And to whatever extent they may have revelance and validity to them.

Alexis Jacobi wrote:And do you mean that these ideas, placed into quotes, are 'the Infinite' I am to take up my issue with? As if to say they have decended to Earth as divine dispensations? And you, I suppose, are just another long-suffering herald of the Infinite? (*laughs*)

Correct.