GENIUS FORUMS

Laird wrote:

Dan Rowden wrote:Why not?

Well the simple answer is the one that I already gave: by definition. Look at the way that the word is constructed: "nothingness". No-thing-ness. Not-a-thing-ness. I mean, it's pretty straightforward and undeniable.

But if you want something more elaborate, let's look at the components of my definition and see that none of them apply: I've defined a thing as a "concept, object, entity, quality or event".

* concept: I've already acknowledged that the concept of nothingness can be considered to be a thing, but we're talking now about the actuality of nothingness, so clearly "concept" doesn't apply.
* object: it's called no-thing-ness for a reason; namely that it is not an object and does not contain any objects - it is devoid of anything.

Yet it is a state differentiated from and bounded by that which is not it, right? It is also something perceived for what it is (or isn't if you prefer), right?

Dan Rowden wrote:Yet [nothingness] is a state differentiated from and bounded by that which is not it, right?

That depends on what definition of "nothingness" you're going by. One definition is "empty space". That's not the definition that I'm using. My definition is a complete absence of anything including space, in which case boundaries are wholly and completely on the side of that which is not nothing: nothingness itself contains no thing which might be bounded.

Dan Rowden wrote:It is also something perceived for what it is (or isn't if you prefer), right?

The concept of nothingness might be perceived, but as for nothingness itself: there is nothing to perceive.

Are you saying that if nothingness existed we couldn't know about it?

That seems to follow, yeah. We might be able to infer it, but not to measure or observe it.

Infer it from what?

From models that we construct of the universe through scientific methods. I personally don't think that we could ever know for sure, but some models might predict the existence of nothingness more than other models - for example an infinite universe model doesn't predict it at all.