GENIUS FORUMS

Is a sage a seer or a knower?

Does one need knowledge to see clearly or is knowledge a filter, which distorts reality?

It appears that a man with knowledge is quite certain he knows, but isn’t certainty a dangerous psychological state to abide in?

Some philosophers will say “well, if you abide in uncertainty, you are afraid of life and all the rest.”

But what about the reverse, couldn’t one say that he who abides in certainty is afraid of life?

IE: The Christian is certain he knows the nature of reality.

The politician is certain he knows the left is better than the right.

The military general is certain that his country is good.

The elitist business man or scientist is certain that he is superior to the working class.

But in terms of a mystic, what can a wise man claim to know for certain?

What is the relationship between certainty and knowledge?

And if the sage does weld knowledge, what type of knowledge is it?

Both.

Without knowledge you have nothing to distort.

Depends on what kind of knowledge he has. It's not dangerous to be certain, in my opinion. Think of a sage who is uncertain about everything...what use would he be?

One could say that, because one can say everything. You can make up your own words if you want! Saying that has no merit, though.

Christians use blind faith, meaning that they don't accept the fact that they don't know about certain things.

Politicians base their views on money, religion and emotions.

The military general is not always necessarily sure that his country is the best. If his country is bad yet he thinks it's good, then he isn't facing the facts. Certainty in truth is different than certainty in your beliefs.

In my job, I usually greet businessmen. I'd say that half are good people and half are the elitist type. I've never heard of scientists thinking they're superior...maybe some do.

Wise men know the truth.

If you have knowledge you better be certain of the knowledge, otherwise it's not actually knowledge, just a hunch.

There is normal knowledge, where you may know that frog legs are more expensive than chicken, or that winter tires actually work very well in the snow...a sage has this kind of knowledge as well as the type of knowledge that makes a sage different, which can be found on this website. This knowledge erradicates all further questions.

cosmic_prostitute wrote: what can a wise man claim to know for certain?

That all is illusion. There is nothing else.

With certainty, a wise man can claim to know wisdom.

No brainer.

Faizi

The elitist business man or scientist is certain that he is superior to the working class.

How do you define working class, exactly?

In terms of education and credentials and authority, the elitist business man or scientist is superior to the working class. A surgeon has authority and education and credentials to perform thoraxic surgery. A coal miner learns to mine coal and that skill does not require specialized education. Anyone can become a coal miner in a matter of weeks. It takes more time to become a thoraxic surgeon.

How many wise coal miners can you name? How many wise welders? How many wise grocery clerks? How many wise surgeons or wise chemists or psychologists or CEOs?

Superiority in skill and education has little to do with wisdom -- neither does lack of highly attenuated skill and education have anything to do with wisdom.

I am a working class person. I am a licensed practical nurse. Over years, I have worked with many practitioners. I have respect for their superior medical skill. I am well praising of such skill and these people deserve monetary recompense beyond what I get and beyond what a welder gets. I do not have the responsibility of a chest surgeon.

I am not interested in making a lot of money. I am not interested in possessions. Those things are incidental and relative.

But what I am trying to say is that class has nothing to do with it.

In the Bible, there is something that says a rich man has as much chance of getting to Heaven as a camel has of passing through the eye of a needle.

I don't think that "rich" can be defined strictly in terms of money. Rich is material desire and as many working class people have such desire as others.

Get over yourself.

Faizi

What is a mystic?

Faizi

Sschaula wrote:

In my job, I usually greet businessmen. I'd say that half are good people and half are the elitist type. I've never heard of scientists thinking they're superior...maybe some do.

Don’t be so sure about the scientists. I suspect all human beings are victims to fantasies of grandeur where they desire to be in a superior position to those around them.

Ie: wanting to be a movie star
An American idol
A noble prize winning scientist
A genius and all the rest of it.

These fantasies are delusions. The scientists are not exempt from this just because he has the lofty title of scientist. A label doesn’t mean anything as far as enlightenment is concerned.

The scientist is just as competitive, ruthless, self-centered, and has delusions of climbing to the top and leaving everyone else in the dusk.

I only know because I studied geology at a local university, and was exposed to the pettiness first hand. The truth is that the clever man is more susceptible to act immorally.

MKFaizi wrote:

How many wise coal miners can you name? How many wise welders? How many wise grocery clerks? How many wise surgeons or wise chemists or psychologists or CEOs?

My point here is that just because someone has learned a lofty specialized skill doesn’t mean he or she is wise. On the contrary, specialization can lead to a fragmented mind. Performing a function is society has little value to the wise man.

He gets satisfaction out of doing small things such as growing food, he doesn’t want to achieve celebrity, or be a CEO or any of that.

I view a grocery clerk with the same indifference as a CEO, besides the irrefutable fact that the CEO is in a more unfortunate position. Also, there is the tendency for one to scoff at the grocery clerk, and venerate the CEO because the function he performs in society enables him to weld power.

Welding power is a hindrance to someone trying to live with truth on a day to day basis.

Welding power strengthens the self, and strengthens ones image, which results in feelings of superiority to those who do not have as much power.

That is the only point I am making. Someone who is accustomed to welding power is in a bad position as far as enlightenment is concerned.

The CEO is a victim. Capitalist civilization is a mistake, a godless hellish mistake.