GENIUS FORUMS

Here it is in black and white, you truly believe bliss is detachment. Now that I see that you truly are lost, it is time to leave your world until you wake up.

What else could you say.

handing out prizes?

Think about it....What is life ?
What's going on here ?
Who are we ?
How many bodies do we have ?
Are we having fun yet ?

This is all one organism/orgasm....living it up...doing everything....good, bad, ugly ,beautiful......are meaningless and empty.

Why ?

Because there is no separation.
It's one big Bliss Bash of Living Large.....

No Time....
No past.....
No Future........
No Now.......

The Big Nothing/Everything....

The Blank Meaningless Computer Screen of Eternal Light and Love !

This Is Your Bliss !





[Brought to you by The Buddha of Sunsweet Prunes......
It's a Gas Gas Gas ! ]

Kunga wrote:This is all one organism/orgasm....living it up...doing everything....good, bad, ugly ,beautiful......are meaningless and empty.

Yes, why bother going beyond amoebas, really? :)

All evolving involves pointedness. Stones, teeth, thoughts, questions, hurt feeling and the pain of blossoming understanding. It should all be cherished or alternatively, join the amoebae.

You grow because you can and limitations cease to be imposed. You grow because you can challenge. Think not hide, next time you wake up with the hurt.

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:You grow because you can and limitations cease to be imposed. You grow because you can challenge. Think not hide, next time you wake up with the hurt.

Yes....if only you knew the thoughts that grew !
But they seem to feed the amoebas, that impose limitations !
The amoebas of society: [banks, employment, laws, rules and regulations ]

In other words....this world system [the big amoeba] wants to suck in all the energy and keep you,[anti-establishment] from growing !
To hide... is to be invisible to the amoeba that wants to gobble you up.
And so...you must disguise yourself, and learn to work within the system, and make it work for you, not against you.. It's possible , with little attachments....living off the grid would be better though...but you have to start young...the older you get the tougher to start. It's tough enough just to live with the basics in society.

Sorry if I messed up the amoeba metaphor you were using....yes....it's crucial to evolve from our challenges...or else remain unchallenged amoebas....

_/\_

Kunga wrote:The amoebas of society: [banks, employment, laws, rules and regulations ]

I agree it's tempting to look at the rather crude and idiotic structures around us as some imposed limitation. But really, it's just the habitat you happen to be in and even still is giving rise to you as being; so better not slack off those "parents" too much even when you'd like to rebel and do it "differently". Living off the grid will introduce a lot of other limitations and challenges, not necessarily freedom to develop unless very well prepared, technically, skillfully. And yes, disguise, it's basically all we tend to do really, to keep going. But there's always the possibility to introduce awareness into a situation; as well completely worth it.

Diebert wrote:

Men with missions, indeed!

Loool!

Indeed.

I hardly think either of you need me in all of this!

Just call me, “Regan Teresa MacNeil”.

But, Diebert, your post does indeed call for a more substantive, less "self-indulgent" (!) reply. Otherwise, I fear that you might call and conjure in me that evil spirit, Alex, and once more render yourself the victim of green projectile vomit.

Accordingly, I will get back to it tonight after work and hopefully save us all the trouble. (:

movingalways wrote:

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:

Cahoot wrote:Buddha said life is suffering, but he also said ... not always.

Yes, when there is no more coming to any state of being. In any other case one is kidding one self.

This is indeed the litmus test. Bliss is all about 'state of being', which is why it is the most dangerous of all states of being. Fight, fight, fight with all one's might, the bliss of eternal night!

Sure, bliss is an extreme and as an extreme, more susceptible to attachment. But bliss is more than a spasm. The middle way doesn’t mean ignorance of extremes, more of a balancing of extremes. Cultivating the equanimity that is found in the extremes of bliss and despair, and everywhere. Pleasure and aversion.

Attachment to bliss tilts the balance and the spinning top wobbles. Attachment to the charnel grounds, same wobble. Attachment causes the wobble, not the bliss or aversion. All this comes from and flows around the silent and unmoving center, and when balanced, no wobbles.

Being the center, unmoving and balanced, is also bliss.

Being the center, unmoving and balanced, is also bliss.

Trade in your imaginery self and come out of it as bliss, peace.
deal of a lifetime.

Reality is emptiness, void, vacuity; or, to put the matter differently, the seeming reality or the appearance is all that there is and it is exactly as it is supposed to be, i.e., devoid of any 'own nature', of any essence, any value — it is empty.
The 'concealing' reality does not, in fact, conceal anything, or what amounts to the same thing, it conceals EMPTINESS.

the samsara is the nirvana.

realising that produces bliss/peace for the time being.

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:

Leyla Shen wrote: The Realm of "the Hungry Ghosts" suffering for eons hunger and thirst, condemned to preaching as their own the virtue of hollow archetypes; the ball and chain, haunting humans for the dullness of their passions...? Can definitely see the resemblance to frank!

Splendid! And notice the pattern: [...] they all are for ever "returning". Steven Coyle ever came back? It's part of the ritual for these folks to never actually engage but to remain "removed" from the "meat" of the topic*.

In the end one really has to see it in the harshest, most unpleasant light possible, to counter the illusive nonsense being spouted. The patterns reveal the psychological equivalent of a herd of whiny, pussy-soaked bitches who like men-bitches in heat keep hanging out at the place where she most likely will not get laid or even punished since the purpose of any such borderline chick is not to mate, like Franks "initiator", but to enjoy the tension and play up the drama of murdered innocence of supposed humans robbed of "bliss" or "sophistication". Or just sex. In other words to celebrate, preserve and metastasize ones own moist ego.

*Agreed (though I consider Laird an exception in your list; he is different from the others).

I find your last paragraph here worthy of more contemplation. If we're going to take the realms of existence as psychologically meaningful categories, then it would be necessary to be consistent and I think you've anthropomorphised them (made them far more human) far too much here to have reached a realistic conclusion as to how one should deal with Hungry Ghosts; namely, "In the end one really has to see it in the harshest, most unpleasant light possible, to counter the illusive nonsense being spouted".

How does that follow?

(Sorry, I'd post more but turns out I've had a long night and have to duck out again. It's a start, though!)

Being the center, unmoving and balanced, is also bliss.

Oh, you mean an inherently existing self!

So, for instance, to a human, the Hungry Ghost appears as devoid of substance, so much so that not even a brick wall can stop or kill it! Socially, which is to say each of them in relation to the other, this annoyance to humans is an outwardly demonstrable glee about this commonality of void in substance; in the fact that they have a "haunting" effect.

This realization of the vacuity is not, and should not be considered horrifying, for it is the very essence of peace, it is bliss.

'a complete recovery from the malady of manifoldness'.

Leyla Shen wrote:

Being the center, unmoving and balanced, is also bliss.

Oh, you mean an inherently existing self!

First cause is actually speculative inference based on memory and logic. Awareness is, all else is inference, thus awareness precedes first cause.

Leyla Shen wrote:So, for instance, to a human, the Hungry Ghost appears as devoid of substance, so much so that not even a brick wall can stop or kill it! Socially, which is to say each of them in relation to the other, this annoyance to humans is an outwardly demonstrable glee about this commonality of void in substance; in the fact that they have a "haunting" effect.

You're probably right that psychological qualifiers introduce a lot of inconsistency and bleeding over of categories. The "haunting" effect is interesting as it clears up one of the commonalities: the suggestion that one or ones philosophy is more "in tune" with vagueries like the senses, the emotions, the feminine side, right brain, Dionysus or just "compassion" and tranquil, accepting, holier than thou states. The big mistake being made here is right there when conceiving of "senses" and in how far one might be "in touch" with them. Or a "body" and how much one lives "in" it. It's not a matter of sensitivity, it's a matter of becoming in those senses or not. To distill perhaps some existence (of a sneaky inherent kind) through that supposed sensitivity. Truth is that most "forum critics" I've seen posting didn't display that much of sensitivity for context and subtle differences. In other words, one is surprisingly clump footed when walking around the simple but rocky philosophical remains of this place yet one keeps arguing for big time sensuality and of course empathy. Hmmm.

The realization then arrives that the false "I" and illusionary existence will always function as block for understanding and feeling alike. This is where the brick wall comes in and is neatly demonstrated by all the ghosts. What this leads to then is the idea that it's not as much the hunger but most of all the haunting that is the distinct feature here. The incarnation of something that doesn't exist but wants to exist, through the writings in this case but possible a "being" through some sensations just the same. This is the key to the whole dynamic and its intricate rules. They serve as space to exist at least for some of the participants. While a wiser and more philosophical aim would be to write in such a way that they there's hardly any room left to attach to what's being said, no place left to hide some self-notion in there. And I believe some of the great Zen masters attempted to device teachings in such a way: maximum conveyance but zero foothold. David has come close to it at times in my opinion. The alternative to such power is to carefully, concise and logically reason out a point. So much resistance appears then from the mind that wants a little nest to rest in the sentences it reads, some ease and balm instead of torturous, belabored points. But the latter might, in the best cases, serve first and foremost for the author to remove all comfort for himself.

dependent conceptualisation.
pot calling the kettle black.

In western culture the energy of obsessive-compulsiveness, i.e. hungry ghost, has advantages. More results/action oriented, though the downside of the disorder version makes awareness a slave to the energy.

It’s actually a good time of year for hungry ghosts, though. Free candy.

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:

Leyla Shen wrote:So, for instance, to a human, the Hungry Ghost appears as devoid of substance, so much so that not even a brick wall can stop or kill it! Socially, which is to say each of them in relation to the other, this annoyance to humans is an outwardly demonstrable glee about this commonality of void in substance; in the fact that they have a "haunting" effect.

You're probably right that psychological qualifiers introduce a lot of inconsistency and bleeding over of categories. The "haunting" effect is interesting as it clears up one of the commonalities: the suggestion that one or ones philosophy is more "in tune" with vagueries like the senses, the emotions, the feminine side, right brain, Dionysus or just "compassion" and tranquil, accepting, holier than thou states. The big mistake being made here is right there when conceiving of "senses" and in how far one might be "in touch" with them. Or a "body" and how much one lives "in" it. It's not a matter of sensitivity, it's a matter of becoming in those senses or not. To distill perhaps some existence (of a sneaky inherent kind) through that supposed sensitivity. Truth is that most "forum critics" I've seen posting didn't display that much of sensitivity for context and subtle differences. In other words, one is surprisingly clump footed when walking around the simple but rocky philosophical remains of this place yet one keeps arguing for big time sensuality and of course empathy. Hmmm.

The realization then arrives that the false "I" and illusionary existence will always function as block for understanding and feeling alike. This is where the brick wall comes in and is neatly demonstrated by all the ghosts. What this leads to then is the idea that it's not as much the hunger but most of all the haunting that is the distinct feature here. The incarnation of something that doesn't exist but wants to exist, through the writings in this case but possible a "being" through some sensations just the same. This is the key to the whole dynamic and its intricate rules. They serve as space to exist at least for some of the participants. While a wiser and more philosophical aim would be to write in such a way that they there's hardly any room left to attach to what's being said, no place left to hide some self-notion in there. And I believe some of the great Zen masters attempted to device teachings in such a way: maximum conveyance but zero foothold. David has come close to it at times in my opinion. The alternative to such power is to carefully, concise and logically reason out a point. So much resistance appears then from the mind that wants a little nest to rest in the sentences it reads, some ease and balm instead of torturous, belabored points. But the latter might, in the best cases, serve first and foremost for the author to remove all comfort for himself.

Interesting read DVR.

I have always been a little out of touch with zen masters shouts, beatings and one word, one finger zen. I have always had more time for Hakuin and his attempts to bring zen to the majority and his refusal to hide it so that it can only be discovered by the very intelligent or the very diligent. I think [memory not great] it was Hakuin who showed hundreds what enlightenment was in his lectures. In one lecture he had them meditate then pointed out the cry of a bird and stated that at that time it was enlightenment.

Suffering varies with the person except in one universal condition and that is great physical or mental pain. During these bouts even the most lifeless and insensitive gains insights and a sensitivity they may never have experienced before. A hedonist friend of mine died a couple of years ago of brain cancer, during his illness he showed great insights into life he had never felt or expressed before.

Hungry ghosts - I have no idea and will bow to your greater knowledge until I experience something myself of them.

I would like to quote the old Hakuin story [which I am sure you know] about heaven and hell in terms of creation of suffering and alleviating it:-

Nobushige, a great samurai, sought out Hakuin and asked: "Is there really a heaven and a hell?"

"Who are you?" asked Hakuin.

"I am a samurai," Nobushige replied.

"You?" Hakuin snorted. "What lord would employ you? You look like a beggar!"

A furious Nobushige began to draw his sword, but then Hakuin said, "Here open the gates of hell."

Nobushige took the point, sheathed his sword, and bowed.

"Here open the gates of heaven," said Hakuin.

The fire of hell in this world is hotter than that of the hell in the world-beyond. There is no fire equal to anger, lust or greed and ignorance. According to the Buddha, we are burning from eleven kinds of physical pain and mental agony: lust, hatred, illusion sickness, decay, death, worry, lamentation, pain(physical and mental), melancholy and grief. People can burn the entire world with some of these fires of mental discord. From a Buddhist point of view, the easiest way to define hell and heaven is that where ever there is more suffering, either in this world or any other plane, that place is a hell to those who suffer. And where there is more pleasure or happiness, either in this world or any other worldly existence, that place is a heaven to those who enjoy their worldly life in that particular place. However, as the human realm is a mixture of both pain and happiness, human beings experience both pain and happiness and will be able to realize the real nature of life. But in many other planes of existence inhabitants have less chance for this realization. In certain places there is more suffering than pleasure while in some other places there is more pleasure than suffering.

Buddhists believe that after death rebirth can take place in any one of a number of possible existences. This future existence is conditioned by the last thought-moment a person experiences at the point of death. This last thought which determines the next existence results from the past actions of a man either in this life or before that. Hence, if the predominant thought reflects meritorious action, then he will find his future existence in a happy state. But that state is temporary and when it is exhausted a new life must begin all over again, determined by another dominating 'kammic' energy. This repetitious process goes on endlessly unless one arrives at 'Right View' and makes a firm resolve to follow the Noble Path which produces the ultimate happiness of Nibbana.

Heaven is a temporary place where those who have done good deeds experience more sensual pleasures for a longer period. Hell is another temporary place where those evil doers experience more physical and mental suffering. It is not justifiable to believe that such places are permanent. There is no god behind the scene of heaven and hell. Each and every person experiences according to his good and bad kamma. Buddhist never try to introduce Buddhism by frightening people through hell-fire or enticing people by pointing to paradise. Their main idea is character building and mental training. Buddhists can practise their religion without aiming at heaven or without developing fear of hell.
http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/wh ... ev/303.htm

Do you believe this Kunga?

I've experienced heaven and hell on this Earth.
I'm 85% convinced of rebirth. (I've had past life regressions)
I have read about Buddha living in Tushita Heaven, [never for a minute was I skeptical.]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tushita

So, yes....I have no doubts about everything that I posted.

How about you ?

ardy wrote:Suffering varies with the person except in one universal condition and that is great physical or mental pain. During these bouts even the most lifeless and insensitive gains insights and a sensitivity they may never have experienced before. A hedonist friend of mine died a couple of years ago of brain cancer, during his illness he showed great insights into life he had never felt or expressed before.

Hello Ard, do you think it was the pain or the finality approaching which fueled the insight? Or perhaps a combination as attention can really become pointed and acute in those circumstances and pain and insight can fuel each other. It's like hanging on a cross like a Christ figure and understand something about the absurdity; heaven and hell.

Hungry ghosts - I have no idea and will bow to your greater knowledge until I experience something myself of them.

Ha! It was just an attempt to approach something in writing, in some dialectical style that has many names and forms. Knowledge created before your own eyes! It won't save you :)

I would like to quote the old Hakuin story [which I am sure you know] about heaven and hell in terms of creation of suffering and alleviating it:

I didn't know the story but you did realize Hakuin was the one initially drawing his "sword"? Nobushige reacts but is then being made clear a teaching is unfolding. At this point, "heaven" opens and also a dialectic is revealed. Some might be tempted to make it into a morality tale about non-violence or self-control but reading more Hakuin will cure that.

Kunga wrote:I've experienced heaven and hell on this Earth.
I'm 85% convinced of rebirth. (I've had past life regressions)
I have read about Buddha living in Tushita Heaven, [never for a minute was I skeptical.]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tushita

So, yes....I have no doubts about everything that I posted.

How about you ?

Kunga - Nothing but doubts! I try to live my life by the 'don't know' principal which is at the heart of everything...

Sorry to hear you have experienced heaven and hell, neither is preferable to a good life.

I can contemplate re-incarnation as a movement of my atoms into other things as little is lost on the planet. Therefore I morph into rocks, soil and even other living forms. Re-birth as the Buddhists believe is a worm to catch a weasel.

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:

ardy wrote:Suffering varies with the person except in one universal condition and that is great physical or mental pain. During these bouts even the most lifeless and insensitive gains insights and a sensitivity they may never have experienced before. A hedonist friend of mine died a couple of years ago of brain cancer, during his illness he showed great insights into life he had never felt or expressed before.

Hello Ard, do you think it was the pain or the finality approaching which fueled the insight? Or perhaps a combination as attention can really become pointed and acute in those circumstances and pain and insight can fuel each other. It's like hanging on a cross like a Christ figure and understand something about the absurdity; heaven and hell.

Hungry ghosts - I have no idea and will bow to your greater knowledge until I experience something myself of them.

Ha! It was just an attempt to approach something in writing, in some dialectical style that has many names and forms. Knowledge created before your own eyes! It won't save you :)

I would like to quote the old Hakuin story [which I am sure you know] about heaven and hell in terms of creation of suffering and alleviating it:

I didn't know the story but you did realize Hakuin was the one initially drawing his "sword"? Nobushige reacts but is then being made clear a teaching is unfolding. At this point, "heaven" opens and also a dialectic is revealed. Some might be tempted to make it into a morality tale about non-violence or self-control but reading more Hakuin will cure that.

DVR - I am not sure about which opens this door, pain or impending death but it does open. I would like to know why. Noticed it in people in divorce as well but not as pronounced.

Ha! to you too - Hakuin did initiate it and smart of you to notice. Still a teaching in the present with a concrete example is a rare thing. Yes it is more than a simple tale of morality it points to where we live, also how our emotions drive us to the crazy world and our logic and sense drives us to the sane world as long as it is not taken too far, our balance is critical.

Cahoot wrote:In western culture the energy of obsessive-compulsiveness, i.e. hungry ghost, has advantages. More results/action oriented, though the downside of the disorder version makes awareness a slave to the energy.

It’s actually a good time of year for hungry ghosts, though. Free candy.

Lol

Exploitation at its best!

ardy wrote:Ha! to you too - Hakuin did initiate it and smart of you to notice. Still a teaching in the present with a concrete example is a rare thing. Yes it is more than a simple tale of morality it points to where we live, also how our emotions drive us to the crazy world and our logic and sense drives us to the sane world as long as it is not taken too far, our balance is critical.

Hey stop suckin' up! Could you say how you'd imagine that "balance"? Do you mean we need a bit of insanity, cruely and torture just too offset all that peace and understanding?

As an aside: is it too much to ask how you stumbled upon this forum? You sound pretty comfortable so I suspect you've been around reading at least. Or you are just that way :)