GENIUS FORUMS

(OK heres another thread...Please bear in mind that is from the viewpoint of 'Christianity' and I understand that many will turn and flee in horror... but just replace the word 'God' with creator.. if you believe in such and replace 'father' with the same... again I do realise that this post may be subject to intense scrutiny.. but I will endeavour to answer questions ;-) These are 'thoughts' and as I am sure you are all aware we are all entitled to our own )

The Spirit of Truth.

What really do you want from me? For until you set me free within your heart I can never be yours. You know that you can reach me but also you know that to do so you have to not deny all that you already are. In reaching me you have to set truth free and allow it to reside from within. You cannot wait for me to come to you, for ‘I am’ already here. You can only come to me by acknowledging you as me as one.


‘I am’ all that IS, and all that ever was. ‘I am’ everywhere, yet nowhere. ‘I am’ you remember. So wherever you are I will be and where ever you are not I will not be. For I cannot come where you are, only be where ‘I am’.


I talk from the spirit of truth, the one that is living. You asked how can there be more than one God? God is the root behind all that IS, the root from whence the vine stems, and from where the leaves grow. Leaves do not know where they come from and fall to the ground, ‘I am’ not a leaf I know where 'I am' is. I know where you are because I know you. You are where you want and choose to be.


There is only one God. In that image we grow our own roots, feeding also the leaves, made so through the vine.


We become fruits bearing new seeds of light, fueling All that IS, in awareness of it, a part of the ‘body’ as One. The vine? Is Jesus who made us know God of all that IS on our world, so that we in mans world will shed light from the creator of ALL things that are in accordance with his will. When your will becomes that will as one, you see what that will already Is. Then one can only do that will from light, as the soul receives nourishment from All things, as root and thus fruit, through the vine.


Jesus gave us the spirit of truth to guide our hearts in wisdom and love. In overcoming the 'evil' as one of us, we are then able to see and hear that truth from what IS and always IS through the guidance of that truth in our hearts. For those with faith, a word in an ear that hears always speaks to ones core, to ones own spirit, as truths light always shines out in all darkness, comforting the seeker who longs to understand the call of the wind as One. You are One who hears and who is heard. You are your own lights, shining from the body of the vine in truth, shining to the heart of another’s light, and gently waking them up in love and light to join in Oneness and unity.


You are welcome, you just have to believe and then ‘see’ through the eyes of One. Renewing mind, feeding soul, and loving all. You have to wake up and learn how to shine the light that is hiding within. You are your own light, reflected by your world around you. Reflect another’s light, and reflect your own soul as One.

'I am' where 'I am' heard.


What would Jesus ‘think’?

Sweet blessings dear Souls, always shine in the light of All that Is and ‘feel’ the light guiding you home. The force, that makes all things possible. The essence of who you are and where you come from.

To write it is to look at the light while also being in it. To shine the light is to become that light in awareness of it and as One with it


It has always been my intent to use another’s light with understanding to shine yet more light to All. For without another we are no one, because no one will see who we are. Our purpose is to see our Self and to know that we all stem from creation of all that Is and we are here to be able to reflect our maker in unity. To become our own mirror of that creation as part of it in Oneness. To allow earth and heaven to become One in the exaltation and glorification of God through the vine that is the body of Jesus Christ, the living spirit of truth, our lord and saviour. He brings light to the world, and Is one with the father, he is in the father and we in him so that we are now One with both he and the father who is in us.


Peace to All and may grace shine upon you always. In oneness we are home in our being and unity of love and light.


Amanda Thomas 2008

This is my first post, when I started writing this, I tried very hard to write something that could apply to the post you've made, but somehow got lost in my own thoughts as this post continued. I just got hung up on religion I guess.

So... I hope this type of post isn't too out of context for what you may have expected.



My understanding of typical truth and men... is that popular opinion is truth... and reality is in the eye of the beholder.

If you find truth in your faith... even if arguable by another mind... it will likely be the only truth you may ever need.

I have faith in the human capacity to allow other people to influence "our own" perceptions of truth.

I have faith that my body is composed of atoms... and with that in mind... I realize that this world we live in is full of possibilities...

Truth... is not always an observed possibility by those who would tell us otherwise, and is always debatable if you have the strength and word craft to do so.

To me, denial Is often the biggest killer of truth, often preventing many of us from seeing the world and those around us for what it is.

A bunch of lost souls, stuck on a big rock. speeding through space...

No one has yet to present logical or definitive answers as to why, so many of us cling to faith as a defense... And many others live in fear of the lives we live, the unknown that the future brings, they live in fear of being responsible for the greatest gift anyone has yet to witness...

Life's wonderful equation of "endless possibilities."

What if I waist my life? What if I waist the greatest gift ever given to anything?

Because "no, this can not be all that there is, and I have to be something more... something more than a simple human being." No one likes the idea of simplicity when it comes to purpose... people need more than a simple solution of faith in a day and age such as today.


What really kills me,

You find faith for god often when you've been broken... When you know fear and helplessness unlike any you've ever known...

I always saw that as quitting myself.

Saying "Alright! I give up!!! I give myself over to your mercy!!! I don't have the strength to push on alone anymore..." And people give up, they surrender they're burdens and lie down as if they have nothing more to offer the world without the guidance of something greater than themselves.

Funny, all that only to find that the world continues to spin, and everything they feared yesterday will still be there waiting for them today.

That's not god... Thats just realizing that stressing yourself out over all of the worlds problems will accomplish nothing... But you can try again tomorrow, and no, you don't have to give yourself over to a "higher power" to do it:)

People need to start seeing themselves for the "great" thing "they" are... and find strength in themselves... Leave god out of this, he hasn't even bothered to show up for dinner, why give him credit for surviving the hardships in life "you" survive?

Our society fiercely struggles with self doubt, contempt for those we "fear" would harm us, and our own inabilities to sometimes remove our perspective from the familiar confines of our own ignorant opinions.

Myself included... this post is a perfect example.

It's all very entertaining to be honest...

Religion was the one thing I'd expect to be untouchable by man if it were true... Because god's will is god's will... and he is the beginning and the end of any conversation or debate any one could possibly have on the issue. Right?

But its not like that though, is it?

Part of the success of any well crafted lie, is providing people with everything they'll need to believe in it. Telling a person that god does not want to force you to believe in him, he instead wants you to have faith in him... Is the perfect way to continually evade the issue without ever providing definitive answers.

There is doubt in the world... for obvious reasons... I will never be told by another man what my faith should be... If I did, it would not be my faith, but instead his... and he is but another man... On a rock... floating through space.

So yes... I am the first to respond to your post...

All... because... you mentioned... god and Jesus Christ.

But I don't mind, it gave me a moment to flex my brain and consider why people cling to faith as apposed to science or reason when it comes to life issues some days.

Good day to you, and thank you for your post, I hope I haven't offended you:)

protilius wrote:So... I hope this type of post isn't too out of context for what you may have expected.

You were speaking to Amanda, but this type of post is exactly what I expected, speaking for myself, of course.

A bunch of lost souls, stuck on a big rock. speeding through space...

I'm not lost at all, except when I choose to be. I take it you are describing yourself and kindred souls with words like "stuck" and "lost."

No one has yet to present logical or definitive answers as to why, so many of us cling to faith as a defense... And many others live in fear of the lives we live, the unknown that the future brings, they live in fear of being responsible for the greatest gift anyone has yet to witness...

If you have been using faith as a defense, you must ask yourself a defense against what? It won't defend you at an IRS audit. What is this nameless greatest gift that anyone has yet to witness that people are afraid of being responsible for? If you believe in science, as your post seems to indicate, why be so mysterious?

Life's wonderful equation of "endless possibilities."

Oh. That.

Let me tell you something. People can't handle this wonderful equation. Have you ever been the first one in a movie theatre where none of the seats are taken? You get a brain-freeze. You don't know where to sit.

As soon as you act, that is, take steps to make a possibility a probability, you are neglecting not just one of the other endless possibilities, and not just some of them, but all of them. All at once, the endless possibilities are not in front of you, but behind you.

So far we have been discussing the fortunate people.

Because "no, this can not be all that there is, and I have to be something more... something more than a simple human being." No one likes the idea of simplicity when it comes to purpose... people need more than a simple solution of faith in a day and age such as today.

You have to be something more than a simple human being? You mean, something like Madonna? Oh, that's right. She's simple.

"A Day and Age Such As Today."

I'll have to remember that. I'll have to remember just how fucking special we are.

"No one likes the idea of simplicity when it comes to purpose." I can't remember a more nonsensical statement, and I have been at GF for a while now. You are saying, then, that everybody likes to have a complicated purpose. Why? So other people will think you are cool? So when they ask you what your purpose is you can say, "Well, it's complicated..." That bespeaks a cluttered mind. You know those possibilities turning into probabilities I spoke of above? When people actually do things, they need the purpose of their actions to be as simple as it can be. Take our Armed Forces, for example. These amazing kids can pilot hi-tech machinery in life and death situations with breath-taking precision. Their purpose is simple. Follow orders. It would be counter-productive to complicate their "purposes."

You find faith for god often when you've been broken... When you know fear and helplessness unlike any you've ever known...

I always saw that as quitting myself.

You didn't say if this has happened to you. That you have been broken and have known fear and helplessness unlike any you've ever known, and have come through without faith for god. That you haven't quit.

I ask you: quit what? Quit making the mistakes that have broken you?

Everyone has known fear and helplessness unlike any they've ever known. It happens to a baby a dozen times a day whenever no adult is in its view. But you aren't talking about that, are you? No, you are speaking as an adult.

My guess is you haven't been broken enough. Pride that you have come this far without seriously considering that there is a god ("I always saw that as quitting myself") makes you brittle to be broken. I wouldn't want to be you. I say this because I'm pretty sure I was just where you are right now and would never, ever want to go back.

That's not god... Thats just realizing that stressing yourself out over all of the worlds problems will accomplish nothing... But you can try again tomorrow, and no, you don't have to give yourself over to a "higher power" to do it:

The Higher Power does not request you stress yourself over things outside of your control. You won't have to try again tomorrow if you open your eyes, ears, and heart.

Religion was the one thing I'd expect to be untouchable by man if it were true... Because god's will is god's will... and he is the beginning and the end of any conversation or debate any one could possibly have on the issue. Right?

But its not like that though, is it?

"If it were true." If what were true? Religion? What religion? Chances are you have not given much serious attention to the religion in which you were brought up, but if you have and it does nothing for you, find another. You talk about "quitting." If you do have a soul, wouldn't you want to find out as much as you could about it? How do I take care of it like I take care of my physical body? How do I nourish it and protect it? How do I strengthen it? What can it do? What does it do? These seem to me to be worthwhile lines of inquiry for the human being.

"But it's not like that though, is it?" Like what? Untouchable? Would it be more real if it were less touchable?

All... because... you mentioned... god and Jesus Christ.

But I don't mind, it gave me a moment to flex my brain and consider why people cling to faith as apposed to science or reason when it comes to life issues some days.

You don't mind. How magnanimous.

Faith is only something you "cling" to in a storm, like a piece of your demolished house that is being swept away by a rising flood. That piece that buoys you up and saves your life was taken for granted when it was a mere floorboard you walked on when the weather was nice. Faith does not require clinging most of the time - which is precisely when you can get the most out of it.

Oh, and science and reason are not "apposed" to faith.

As I read your words, I realized that perhaps I didn't structure my mental meandering clearly enough to not tempt another with misinterpretation.



Concerning my faith... I have been broken many times and have always survived through the will of good genetics and plain old fashioned luck...

I believe in energy, the studies of said energy, and that we all exist in a very mysterious state of being. If there is a god, he is in everything, and we are all a part of him.

I believe Jesus Christ was a man... and to use him as an example as the son of "GOD" only boils my blood.

They were words and ideas spoken by a man, re-written by others, translated down the road by numerous other cultures in turn deteriorating its contents, and has since lost what ever specific meanings and secrets it had to reveal.

King James saw to that.

And dont tell me Science and Religion get along.

Museum of Creation anyone? Now things like that should be illegal...

Truly lost souls cling to these ideals. Not me...

Truly lost souls, floating on a rock, speeding through space.

I believe in Synchronocity. Things do happen for a reason. I also believe that people have the power to will wonderful things into they're lives as well.

But you don't need god for that.

We live in a gigantic vibrating ball of energy. It is receptive to your thoughts if you provide them for the universe to explore and manifest.





I think you were assuming the observations I was making on other people were that of my own feelings and perspective.

They were not... please don't critically over analyze.

I was vague in my post because I was hoping some one might have thoughtful ways to fill in the gaps I left, even if not agree with some of the things I've observed in many, many, others...

Although your need to judge or categorize me is very entertaining, I'm afraid I expected a better dialogue than that from this site.

Also... People who would sooner attack an opinion than find ways to understand it are lost, not in a "where am I or where am I going" sense, but instead they are merely lost in they're own minds, unable to understand others.

I think you may be in a place I once was, and truly pity you.





I was merely trying to understand why people feel this need to continually define god with rules, practices, and humanly flawed ideals. Why do people look to god to get them through life when the only person behind the wheel is "You."

I think people do not appreciate the potential any of them have to offer this world, and in turn live lesser lives by not exploring they're limitations and striving for a better existence without allowing some one else to define that for them.

People continually look to some one else or in other places for answers in life.

It is an observation... Please don't confuse that statement with my personal mission statement. I do not need others to explain to me morality, god, love, and the complicated relationships that many of us find ourselves in.

People can not take from you that of which you do not give them (when it comes to your heart and mind.) And no, confidence nor faith will stop the IRS from taking your house away, but intelligent and informed decision making will. Further proving my point that god doesn't have anything to do with it, it is just the way it is.


In closing...

You're response neither answered my question nor provided me with any kind of intelligent insight I didn't come to years ago.

I think you are even more bitter and cynical than you lead on... And yes, you do appear to me as broken, although, you are surely far from saved.

And just for the record, I've always known exactly where to sit in a theater... I am not confused by having options to choose from. Although it would seem much of society does according to you.

And when I say I don't mind... I meant only to imply that I'm not afraid to talk about it in fear of being scorned by lesser or judgmental minds.

Thanks for playing:)

pontificus wrote:As I read your words, I realized that perhaps I didn't structure my mental meandering clearly enough to not tempt another with misinterpretation.

I think I read you just fine.

Concerning my faith... I have been broken many times and have always survived through the will of good genetics and plain old fashioned luck...

I believe in energy, the studies of said energy, and that we all exist in a very mysterious state of being. If there is a god, he is in everything, and we are all a part of him.

So far, I could have said the exact same thing.

I believe Jesus Christ was a man... and to use him as an example as the son of "GOD" only boils my blood.

They were words and ideas spoken by a man, re-written by others, translated down the road by numerous other cultures in turn deteriorating its contents, and has since lost what ever specific meanings and secrets it had to reveal.

All very true. The boiling blood thing is telling, though. Why the negative emotional reaction? Aren't we all children of God?

How do you know there were secrets and specific meanings that were lost from Jesus' teachings down through the ages? You have as record what we all do, right? You must think you know something that you're not telling.

And dont tell me Science and Religion get along.

Museum of Creation anyone? Now things like that should be illegal...

Truly lost souls cling to these ideals. Not me...

Whoa, Sparky. Creation is not Creationism. But you knew that, right?

We have museums of Science. We have museums of Natural History. You want to put religion into a museum, too? It's no good if it doesn't have a museum? Maybe if we could take faith to a taxidermist to have it stuffed, mummified, and mounted so it could be put into a museum...?

I believe in Synchronocity. Things do happen for a reason. I also believe that people have the power to will wonderful things into they're lives as well.

But you don't need god for that.

We live in a gigantic vibrating ball of energy. It is receptive to your thoughts if you provide them for the universe to explore and manifest.

Apart from your spelling, I agree with just about all of that. Except for the god part, of course, since you yourself say he is in everything.

Although your need to judge or categorize me is very entertaining, I'm afraid I expected a better dialogue than that from this site.

Apparently I hit a nerve. And you will no doubt get more entertaining dialogue from the others here.

Also... People who would sooner attack an opinion than find ways to understand it are lost, not in a "where am I or where am I going" sense, but instead they are merely lost in they're own minds, unable to understand others.

I think you may be in a place I once was, and truly pity you.

See, you took me the wrong way. You are trying to say you pity me because you think that was what I was saying to you. Far from it. I said I wouldn't want to be you. And I wouldn't. Look, shit happens in everybody's life. Unlike you, I do not look down my nose on those who "cling" to faith in adversity, if that's what helps get them through it. I don't know why you do, but I do know that I don't care why you do. You're the one with the boiling blood.

You're response neither answered my question nor provided me with any kind of intelligent insight I didn't come to years ago.

Oh, it was "intelligent insight" when you came up with it years ago, and now it's what, too simple? You can make things as complicated as you're able to handle - which is probably, in your case, not very. Alas, you cannot hurt my feelings, as I have said numerous times on these forums that I don't delude myself into believing I have amazingly original thoughts.

I think you are even more bitter and cynical than you lead on... And yes, you do appear to me as broken, although, you are surely far from saved.

I've been broken a few times in a few places, I'll admit it. Scar tissue may not be as supple or as pretty as the original, but it is tougher. Bitter, truly not. Cynical, I'm afraid I can be, it is something I indulge in. Surely far from saved? Why, that sounds almost... religious?

Thanks for playing:)

Yeah, it's been a blast. I think I hear your mom calling....

As much as I dislike your opinion and general perspective right now, I must say this is probably the most stimulating conversation I've had in a few days,

I try not to allow religious debates to fill my days, much less entertain another persons condescending opinion of me, but you are entertaining indeed.

The boiling blood thing... not mad about Jesus or claiming we're not all god's children... If your going to judge people, be sure your not projecting your own limited understanding of the world "on me." I did not say that, you twisting my words to further your own points is not a dialogue, it is a witch hunt.

My blood boils over what most churches have perverted religion into on occasion. Crusades anyone?

Secrets in the bible... Well, if the book is so damned important to everyone, there must be something worth while in there, just assuming that for many religious folk, there may be a secret or two worth knowing and understanding... And yes... words do get lost in translation, ultimately providing you with a less accurate "Bible."

Museum of Creationism... Thank you, I did not know the proper name.

I actually liked your joke about taxidermy. Cute...

And unfortunately it would be wrong to prevent a person from building a museum dedicated to whatever they choose to. Hence, much propaganda is afoot and I guess there will even be a place for the likes of George Bush when everything is said and done too... Likely praising him for having "the best presidency ever!!!! Dude..."

There are people out there like that. Although I'm sure you know.

Concerning my spelling... Indeed my guilty sin. There isn't a spell check out there that can cover all the bases I attempt to steal in a day.

Hitting a nerve, not really, I just wanted you to know I have no respect for individuals quick on the gun... stating I expected a better dialog was true.

Although this will do. I honestly cant tell if I hate you or enjoy you yet.

But... You should stop inventing your own meanings to my words.

I often mean what I say, not what you think I'm saying.

shit does happen in everyone's life, although I don't recall ever saying to you that I had a problem or serious issue on my plate. I don't recall at any point providing you with a basis to claim for a moment you could possibly know where I am.

You know that I disagree with the exploitation of religion and often disagree with conservative religious opinions.

The fact that you were able to construct an opinion or "understanding" of who and what I am and then tell me "I was there, I wouldn't go back to that ever" only goes to show how ignorant you can be some days.

It also proves my point that those who know the least usually chirp the loudest.

Intelligent insight... I don't recall saying what you said was unintelligent, but I think its entertaining that you take offense to it and then immediately after claim to not have hurt feelings over it.

Sounds to me as if not only are you twisting words into meaning that suit your argument, but your relentless pursuit to be right has clouded your ability to effectively argue a valid point.

Surely far from saved... Cancer patients die every day by not having a cure to they're disfunction.

I was merely pointing out, while keeping to theme, that you are broken and the parts have been backlogged for years... No hope... broken mind... Unsavable... Unwilling to be saved...No one with any solutions to speak of.

Nah... your not that bad, your just angry.

Forever unable to get around that brick wall called your ego.

Oh... and you should get going, the street lights are on. LOL, haven't said that and meant it in years!!!

protozoan wrote:The boiling blood thing... not mad about Jesus or claiming we're not all god's children... If your going to judge people, be sure your not projecting your own limited understanding of the world "on me." I did not say that, you twisting my words to further your own points is not a dialogue, it is a witch hunt.

My blood boils over what most churches have perverted religion into on occasion. Crusades anyone?

See, here's what you did say:

I believe Jesus Christ was a man... and to use him as an example as the son of "GOD" only boils my blood.

How was I supposed to get the Crusades out of that?

Yes, I hate organized religion, too. And it is more than just an occasion when god's name is taken in vain from the pulpit. That's why I stopped going to any church many years ago. I derived nothing, and I found I contributed nothing. I got tired of tapping the collection plate, pretending to put coins in, when it passed. But I can see that people do keep going. Apparently, they derive something. I don't judge them or hate them - but I loathe people who prey on them. Jimmy Swaggart. Tammy frigging Faye. You get the picture.

Secrets in the bible... Well, if the book is so damned important to everyone, there must be something worth while in there, just assuming that for many religious folk, there may be a secret or two worth knowing and understanding... And yes... words do get lost in translation, ultimately providing you with a less accurate "Bible."

The Bible is a Jewish historical document. I get the feeling you're Jewish - the boiling blood thing - but even if you are not, you must agree that it is one of the earliest, most complete documents that have survived. Lost in translation? That it is still here at all is astounding. I once read that it contains the earliest known written record of someone laughing. I'll dig out the verse if you want me to.

The point is, the Bible is not religion. I like to think of Christs's teachings as religion. Even as a tiny kid, I could tell the difference between the OT and the NT. I have no time for the epistles or the prophets or anything remotely like a Jehovah's Witness knee-jerk response of diving for the Bible with the little ribbon bookmarks whenever a question comes up. I get - through 2,000 years and all the translations to which you allude - Jesus' meaning. I do not get Paul's meaning, by contrast. I don't care how the Apostles "Acted." Nobody told me this when I was a wee lad. My family were Roman Catholics and we didn't have a Bible. The priests seemed to like the epistles and called flat pieces of tasteless wafer "God" and knelt in front of the little pieces, all the while lecturing about "false idols." The nuns - too many to count, and you know how they all look the same - all terrified me. They seeme like they would believe in just about anything as long as there was some kind of mortification involved. Yet Jesus' words came through as somehow different, somehow the truth.

So the Bible is only marginally historically accurate, with all the begats, word-of-mouth, and translations. A Jehovah's Witness friend of mine tried to tell me the Biblical story of how the rainbow was first created was historically accurate. I tried to tell her that Moses was using an allegory when he "wrote" that so the people would remember. There were no books at the time to remind them, and they couldn't read, anyhow. I managed to offend her more than I offended you.

shit does happen in everyone's life, although I don't recall ever saying to you that I had a problem or serious issue on my plate. I don't recall at any point providing you with a basis to claim for a moment you could possibly know where I am.

You didn't say. I was guessing. My guess was that if you had been broken badly enough at one point, you might not put other people down for invoking "god" to get them through their own shit, even if you like to tell yourself it was your luck, your genes, not "god" who got you through whatever you have been through, which cannot be nothing because you are obviously an adult.

You know that I disagree with the exploitation of religion and often disagree with conservative religious opinions.

The fact that you were able to construct an opinion or "understanding" of who and what I am and then tell me "I was there, I wouldn't go back to that ever" only goes to show how ignorant you can be some days.

It also proves my point that those who know the least usually chirp the loudest.

I would not want to go back to the time where I was so sure I could get myself out of any jam I could get myself into. This was what I was focusing on:

People need to start seeing themselves for the "great" thing "they" are... and find strength in themselves... Leave god out of this, he hasn't even bothered to show up for dinner, why give him credit for surviving the hardships in life "you" survive?

If I remind you of conservative religious bigmouth zealots, then what might this quote remind me of? I see plenty of examples of people seeing themselves as the "great" things "they" are. I can't buy a bunch of freaking carrrots at the supermarket without seeing magazines with names like "Self" and "Us" at the damn checkout counter. And why get on god's case for not showing up for dinner, whatever that means. Have you ever actually invited him?

I've heard it said that gratitude is among the most profound and powerful of the emotions. Do you fear being grateful? Is that why you prefer to thank yourself for what you have? The notion is repellent to me, but maybe I have not given myself all that much to thank myself for. Perhaps you have been kinder to yourself. I hope so, because as I've mentioned a couple of times (not too much dwelling on it, though - I do have over a thousand posts!) I have beaten several addictions that were provided to me by none other than myself. I have thanked the people responsible for getting me through the is he dead or alive days, as I shall no doubt continue to do. The ones that mattered most all seemed to thank god, and when they don't say it, you can still see it in their eyes.

I was merely pointing out, while keeping to theme, that you are broken and the parts have been backlogged for years... No hope... broken mind... Unsavable... Unwilling to be saved...No one with any solutions to speak of.

Nah... your not that bad, your just angry.

Forever unable to get around that brick wall called your ego.

The term "ego" is thrown around more here than cow chips on a farm. I figure it is properly used about 2% of the time. It's whatever's left over, no? Gratitude---I'm grateful that something's left over. I don't often - ever, really - write about my purposeful use of drugs to get beneath the skin of things, as it were. But I'm grateful for what is left over, it always seems like more than before.

But that purpose may be too... complicated... for GF.

protilius wrote: I just got hung up on religion I guess.

That is the problem with most.. They hear the word Religion and then tend to switch off. Remember religion is just a word, which has many stereotypical tendancies to ones mind.

protilius wrote:My understanding of typical truth and men... is that popular opinion is truth... and reality is in the eye of the beholder.

Popular opinion is Not truth, it is just opinion. Reality Is in the eye of the beholder, but it depends on HOW one beholds and perceives and understands things for themselves as to what they then perceive their reality from understanding to be.

protilius wrote:If you find truth in your faith... even if arguable by another mind... it will likely be the only truth you may ever need.

I have faith in the human capacity to allow other people to influence "our own" perceptions of truth.

I found faith from truth. Also that same truth allows one to understand things for themselves. We do perceive differently, and truth allows one to be free from the confusion that doubts place within us.

protilius wrote:I have faith that my body is composed of atoms... and with that in mind... I realize that this world we live in is full of possibilities...

We are all energy. And In truth the possibilities are infinite.

protilius wrote:No one has yet to present logical or definitive answers as to why, so many of us cling to faith as a defense... And many others live in fear of the lives we live, the unknown that the future brings, they live in fear of being responsible for the greatest gift anyone has yet to witness...

Who said many use faith as a defense? this is your perception. And if they do then obviously we respect others beliefs and understanding.
My work when it is written up does give logical definitive answers, as to refute my words is to deny ones self belief and acknowledge their own doubts and fears, and self worth, thus my work speaks for itself.

protilius wrote:Because "no, this can not be all that there is, and I have to be something more... something more than a simple human being." No one likes the idea of simplicity when it comes to purpose... people need more than a simple solution of faith in a day and age such as today.

It isnt all there is, you underestimate the 'human'. We are an infinite being, and anything is possible. People need understanding.

protilius wrote:What really kills me,

You find faith for god often when you've been broken... When you know fear and helplessness unlike any you've ever known...

I always saw that as quitting myself.

Saying "Alright! I give up!!! I give myself over to your mercy!!! I don't have the strength to push on alone anymore..." And people give up, they surrender they're burdens and lie down as if they have nothing more to offer the world without the guidance of something greater than themselves.

Funny, all that only to find that the world continues to spin, and everything they feared yesterday will still be there waiting for them today.

People who have suffered, with understanding and actions then realise that from this darkness the light is more easily visible. What is quitting? when one understands then they can reperceive how once their thoughts forged who they are and how they react. if people still fear the same thing then they are not learning from their actions. fear does not exist unless you allow it to be there.

protilius wrote:People need to start seeing themselves for the "great" thing "they" are... and find strength in themselves... Leave god out of this, he hasn't even bothered to show up for dinner, why give him credit for surviving the hardships in life "you" survive?

We are in Gods image, too many externalise God, which is not God. God is in your heart. God id the real You.

protilius wrote:Our society fiercely struggles with self doubt, contempt for those we "fear" would harm us, and our own inabilities to sometimes remove our perspective from the familiar confines of our own ignorant opinions.

Indeed, self doubts and fear. And also ignorance of understanding.

protilius wrote:Religion was the one thing I'd expect to be untouchable by man if it were true... Because god's will is god's will... and he is the beginning and the end of any conversation or debate any one could possibly have on the issue. Right?

Gods will is divine will, with understanding we can perceive that that will is our own, in justice and honour. It is ignorance and deceit and power gain and greed which mares the truth and the real face of god.

protilius wrote:There is doubt in the world... for obvious reasons... I will never be told by another man what my faith should be... If I did, it would not be my faith, but instead his... and he is but another man... On a rock... floating through space.

So yes... I am the first to respond to your post...

All... because... you mentioned... god and Jesus Christ

And nor should you be told, all we need is to understand things, truth and people will see that all hearts in goodness are one. Jesus was a man like us, and we are the same as him and all Gods 'children' in maturity of understanding we are all Gods.

protilius wrote:But I don't mind, it gave me a moment to flex my brain and consider why people cling to faith as apposed to science or reason when it comes to life issues some days.

Good day to you, and thank you for your post, I hope I haven't offended you:)

People cling to what they can and understand. A greater understanding of religion also is science and reason. I do not take offense, and in your writing that statement you thought that I might. so no Peoples thoughts are their own as we each understand things to how we perceive. I merely challenge perceptions and allow the reader to come to their own realisations..

Amandaxxx

Amanda is the Good Cop.

Mwahahahaha... good cop... awesome.

I think all three of us have made very valid points here today... Even if not always in good intention... (Evil brokenhead... I'll remember you for some time, and believe it or not, I look forward to our next debate.)

I don't see either of your words as confrontational anymore, but merely as reasonable perspectives on a very complicated issue.

After mulling all these words over, I've realized that in a few instances we weren't necisarily telling the other person how wrong they were, but were instead presenting various ideas that in ways co-insided with one another (yet stood on very different realms of reasoning.)

I truly don't snub anyone who chooses to offer they're faith to god. Hell, I wish it were so easy for me to do so... I guess tonight was my night to go "WHY!!!!!????"

In all honesty, I secretly do it when I'm not too busy clinging to science in an attempt to explain the world away.

I just have had the disprivilage of living in a few small communities in my day and have been subjected to "very" irrational perspectives as a result.

Use your imagination...

I believe in something... I do.

Sometimes I believe so much, and feel so helpless to this thing we call life, that there is nothing more that I can offer than my conflicted heart and broken logic to a concept that has yet to be proven. I have to have faith... that everything is as it should be.

I supose in my cold judgemental statements, I was perhaps expressing how displeased I have been with my own weaknesses and failures in life, and hold a contempt for God for not being more "hands on."

Truth be known... it "is" a savage jungle out there and god had everything to do with it. We are tested every day, and the way we react to those tests not only defines us as individuals, but also ultimately shapes the world God has created.

The quickest way to convince a scientist that god exists isn't by painting a picture of a singular being, but more so an embodiment of all things. It is the only formula that works... In my mind at least.

If god is a reality, then he had a plan... and in that plan, all guilt simply fades away... because god made me into what he wanted me to be, and I have been nothing less since he created me... (Guias Balter, BSG, great series on occasion.)

I suppose at this point, I'm rambling, not so much responding to either of you.... but they are words I feel may be worth hearing.

I guess I have to just keep reminding myself, all men are my brothers, and even if lost from "the truth" of what things really are... They are still my brothers... and I owe them my respect.

My only real gripe with truth is that truth has rarely been presented to the world. We are usually tainted with the ideas of other men, and often those ideas have been proven flawed with the passing of time.

I fear allowing myself to fall prey to false truth... and can't help but challenge any truth another may provide.


I do believe many of us are lost.

I am lost. I will concead it... I hold strong to my judgement and instincts to guide me through tomorrow and today alike.

Why not? I was born curious and confused, I will likely die in a state of denial based on what I learn from the life I will live.

Hopefully not though... I too hope for some form of ultimate enlightenment when it will no longer be necessary to seek opinions or conversations from forums online.

I have plans like any other person, and like so many others, those plans have fallen through... I now live off of improvising.

It has done well for me... If not been everything I've expected it to be.

The two of you have interesting thoughts and complicated personalities that undoubtedly drive your opinions.

It has been a pleasure debating with you broken, and I thank you Elderwoodxxx for making this post.

It has provided me with an interesting night of debating and speculation.

But...

I must say...

The more any of us try to define god, the further we alienate ourselves from one another with our two dimensional words that leave "so" much for interpretation.

I often wish people could see the smile on my face as I write some things, I'd imagine people would take less offense to many of the ideas that I present to the world.

I will say this... I bid you both a great evening, and hope to speak with you both again, I do not see it as time waisted.

Cheers:)

'I am You'

This has got me worried...

;-)

protilius wrote:

There is doubt in the world... for obvious reasons... I will never be told by another man what my faith should be... If I did, it would not be my faith, but instead his... and he is but another man... On a rock... floating through space.

And then you wrote...

And nor should you be told, all we need is to understand things, truth and people will see that all hearts in goodness are one. Jesus was a man like us, and we are the same as him and all Gods 'children' in maturity of understanding we are all Gods.




Perhaps that was Jesus Christ's message. "I am as much the son of god as any of you... and all man was created in god's image, empowering each of us with the profound potential of vast possibilities."

I like that...



Oh.. and the whole I am you thing.

:)

Reminds me of a theory a friend and I came up with one night tripping on Acid. (old habits with lasting results.)

We were convinced all life and conciseness was merely a single soul experiencing reality over and over again without the boundaries of time to prevent it from being "everything."

Aka... God.

protilius wrote:We were convinced all life and conciseness was merely a single soul experiencing reality over and over again without the boundaries of time to prevent it from being "everything."

Aka... God.

Jesus' message is simple..;-)

Mystics and saints, sages, and spititual people all see a universal oneness. An ultimate consciousness. There is One manifesting as the many. One divine consciousness... (Read some of my other posts or my blog page if you are interested.. I alays assert that all religion stems from the same roots..

Amandaxxx

In fact after reading your previous post i can see that you are not afraid to voice your perceived limitations, which is good. This means that you are open to learn and to understand.. Often those as you said who feel most lost will see the light much more easily. Our perceived limitations do in fact turn out to be our strong points or virtues. We must all hold on to virtues and honour another with respect as also you stated. Your own logic may appear confusing amongst the myriad of 'life' and how we are led to perceive our reality, but when one understands how to perceive differently we begin to spiritually become more aware of who we are in relation to all others, as one.

As the bible says... they may be forever seeing and yet blind or forever hearing and not perceiving or they may turn and be forgiven... when we see things differently then this affects our actions and creates our reality a new.. to go a little further... doubts and fear and judgements and greed etc etc... capture our minds so that we cannot 'see'... they say the 'devil' has our minds....

amandaxxx

elderwoodxxx wrote:

protilius wrote:We were convinced all life and conciseness was merely a single soul experiencing reality over and over again without the boundaries of time to prevent it from being "everything."

Aka... God.

Jesus' message is simple..;-)

Mystics and saints, sages, and spititual people all see a universal oneness. An ultimate consciousness. There is One manifesting as the many. One divine consciousness... (Read some of my other posts or my blog page if you are interested.. I alays assert that all religion stems from the same roots..

Amandaxxx

Only one quote this time?

Good to know my thoughts haven't stirred up too big a hornets nest with my last post.

I think this debate is finally finding a balance.

Perhaps I will dig up some of your previous posts... And then drunkenly comment on them!!!!! Haha...

Good will to you.

Cheers:)

I added more ;-) lol
amandaxxx

protilius wrote:Perhaps that was Jesus Christ's message. "I am as much the son of god as any of you... and all man was created in god's image, empowering each of us with the profound potential of vast possibilities."

Yes, I see that as his message.

"Be ye perfect even as I am perfect."

And nor should you be told, all we need is to understand things, truth and people will see that all hearts in goodness are one. Jesus was a man like us, and we are the same as him and all Gods 'children' in maturity of understanding we are all Gods.

We might very well be Gods. If so, believing it to be so would do much. And if so, it must be remarked that we are extremely young Gods.

The more any of us try to define god, the further we alienate ourselves from one another with our two dimensional words that leave "so" much for interpretation.

Yes, there does seem to be a barrier inherent in this mode of communication. But so it is with others as well.

I have plans like any other person, and like so many others, those plans have fallen through... I now live off of improvising.

Plans? You want plans? I've got quite a few of them myself. Improvising never killed anyone. In fact it makes you better, don't you think? Not to be philosophical, but isn't life itself one big improvisation?

I do believe many of us are lost.

I am lost. I will concead it... I hold strong to my judgement and instincts to guide me through tomorrow and today alike.

Why not? I was born curious and confused, I will likely die in a state of denial based on what I learn from the life I will live.

Hopefully not though... I too hope for some form of ultimate enlightenment when it will no longer be necessary to seek opinions or conversations from forums online.

You don't sound lost to me. My advice: keep the boiling blood to a moderate simmer, and install OpenOffice on your computer. Can't beat a free spell-checker. But then again, it wouldn't squawk at this:

We were convinced all life and conciseness was merely a single soul experiencing reality over and over again without the boundaries of time to prevent it from being "everything."

Nor should it; I kind of like "all life and conciseness" better.

brokenhead wrote:Quote:
And nor should you be told, all we need is to understand things, truth and people will see that all hearts in goodness are one. Jesus was a man like us, and we are the same as him and all Gods 'children' in maturity of understanding we are all Gods.

We might very well be Gods. If so, believing it to be so would do much. And if so, it must be remarked that we are extremely young Gods.

When I wrote the above, it is true that in full maturity of understanding we are Gods. As Jesus said, do ye not know the height from which you fell?... But yes young gods.. building up the body of christ... the more we understand that body the more we can become it.

Amandaxxx

Hey, Amanda! I think you scared protilius away...

Who me? ;-) lol Im a good cop remember..
how do you know it wasnt you... it was probably the whole religion thing... he did say his blood was boiling... ;-) he may be back.. maybe hes busy reading the scriptures haha

amandaxxx

"Be ye perfect even as I am perfect."

Merciful heavens, Brokenhead! He said no such thing, nor would he.

"Be ye therefore perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect."

It's in the opening chapters of Matthew, worth a relook. As it one of the many places in which Jesus' teachings are in direct contradiction to Christian dogma, and I might add, Old Testament stuff as well, from which much of it comes.

Iolaus wrote:

"Be ye perfect even as I am perfect."

Merciful heavens, Brokenhead! He said no such thing, nor would he.

"Be ye therefore perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect."

It's in the opening chapters of Matthew, worth a relook. As it one of the many places in which Jesus' teachings are in direct contradiction to Christian dogma, and I might add, Old Testament stuff as well, from which much of it comes.

Good catch, Iolaus.

I have heard it both ways, however. I am Bible-challenged, as I was brought up not to read Scripture and sometimes rely on memory wirhout looking it up as I ought.

brokenhead wrote:Hey, Amanda! I think you scared protilius away...

Nah... not scared away, I just think I've said everything I can on this subject unless we're moving into "conversion" mode here.

lol

Although, I did just make a post on "Judging people" if you all want to get into another monkey poop fight on that one.

haha...

Mmmm... Monkey poop fight:)

protilius wrote:Although, I did just make a post on "Judging people" if you all want to get into another monkey poop fight on that one.

haha...

Mmmm... Monkey poop fight:)

Hahah.. Ill take a look later.. although I have already on another thread discussed judgement and dicernment..etc.. Brokenhead I think you were there also.. cant remember which thread it was without looking through can you?.. ;-)

anyway... I do not fight :-p I merely understand.

amandaxxx

Christians!!

Matthew 5
39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. 41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. 43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

When was the last time any of you willingly turned the other cheek embracing a second slapping after the first one? Anna...? I seem to recall you turning your back when I slapped you last! How very NT unChristian and OT Christian of you!

Genesis 17
1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. 2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

[Edited to add additional verses in Matthew since Christians apparently don't know their own gospel!]

Akin to imbibing small amounts of poisonous venom for the snake's wisdom.