There can be no suffering without ignorance

brad walker · Post by **brad walker** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:51 pm

Take a wrong turn somewhere in the intertubes?

Welcome to Genius Forums wrote:Welcome to Genius Forum, the forum for Dangerous Thinkers.

Genius is a discussion forum that is passionately dedicated to the nature of Genius, Wisdom and Ultimate Reality and to the total annihilation of false values. It is an unconventional discussion forum suitable only for the brave hearted. It is for those who like their thoughts bloodied and dangerous. That is to say, it is a forum intended solely for men - of either sex. It is sometimes said that genius is "the infinite capacity for giving pain." This is very apt. If one is not deliberately causing pain to the ego, both in oneself and in others, then what is the good of one's life? One might as well not exist at all. It is by challenging and overturning our cosy assumptions, habitual thought-processes, psychological refuges and mental blocks that our minds can be opened up that little bit more to the wisdom of the Infinite.

We hope you find this forum stimulating and challenging.

SeekerOfWisdom · Post by **SeekerOfWisdom** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:06 am

Like I said, oh I forgot, you were doing it to teach

Kunga · Post by **Kunga** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:12 am

Seeker...I have 2 sons around your age...whom Iove passionately...I can never win an argument with them !!! They know it all !!!! (You remind me of them :) )
They also have hearts of gold....seems like you do too....and that's really all that matters.....kindness.....the wise ones here are like kung-fu masters....ruffin you up to see how strong you are......but you know, it's the branch that bends, that doesn't break ......xox

jufa · Post by **jufa** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:38 am

SeekerOfWisdom wrote:Jufa

No, that's not what the "and there was light" means , it is a direct explanation of where light came from, it exists as a "it's just how we are" of the mind of god, which is you, you are the eternal awareness/dreamer creating your own circumstances as you go, literally your body exists because you asked questions and needed answers, you see with your eyes closed remember, light comes from you, you are the spirit that encompasses all known existence/experience, time doesn't exist, the idea you came from your mother and after her is simply a mixed illusion of consciousness, all that exists is experience, everything else is an imagination, the most righteous person is the one that simply let's go and acts without thought, there is no other reason to be righteous except in sight of the knowledge that others are essentially you. For it was man that created his own shadow, "And you were one and become two, but now that you are two what will you do?" - Jesus

Do you distinguish between that spirit and you? I took the time to re-read what you were saying and found it really well written, but still, much more complicated than I believe is necessary for you to get your point across, try writing just one comment clearly as if you weren't writing to anyone else but yourself, hence there will be no altering or fixing up to suit conversation, and you'll see how much more understanding can be transferred, what do you think?

SeekerOfWisdom, the problem you have in understanding my purpose and meaning stems from your position of attempting to make a point of truth for some one else without any knowledge of how that some one else came to be who they are. Every individual participating in this thread is telling the story of their travailing. And the point is, it has nothing to do with what you have learned and understood in your travailing. To you my friend, understand therefore:

When a man looks into the dark depth of himself, he glimpse, for a second, the reality of the light dwelling camouflaged as darkness. The darkness which is the essence of all things of matter, yet is the light center of which is "the way, the truth, and the life" of man's being. And the deeper man descends into the darkness of himself, the more he is lifted up and absorbed into the reality of the meaning "the earth is the Lord's, and the fullness thereof, the world, and they that dwell their in." With this understanding, the purposed of expanding the indwelling light of God out of the darkness eliminates the dimensions of time, space, distance and matter which once held man prisoner to the belief there was a separation between the Word of God and the interpreted words of man. - jufa

Never give power to anything a person believe is their source of strength - jufa
http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com

Dennis Mahar · Post by **Dennis Mahar** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:30 am

Like you said, rhetoric is useless at this stage, our only speech or work should be cooperating on how to best awaken others, what else do we have to give to those in bed with desire and suffering?
* what else is worthy of talking about or in any way more productive or useful?

There's nothin' to fix.

Reading you is reading a cold,hard, calculating little cunt drenched in anima.
Agree?
(not a criticism)

SeekerOfWisdom · Post by **SeekerOfWisdom** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:05 am

For some reason my mind perceived it as a criticism haha but I don't really mind, there's nothing to fix in the eyes of the world but there is important help that can be given dennis don't lie, you simply aren't spending enough time around people suffering if you think that's the case

SeekerOfWisdom · Post by **SeekerOfWisdom** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:19 am

Jufa

Good point, I was probably just dishing out what was being done to me I guess, so just checkin', are you generally under the idea that you are one with "God" then? As you said there was no distinction between the words and the interpreted words. I'm in agreement with you about the illusory nature of time, space, distance, movement, aging and pretty much every worldly concept at least, but like I said, I would have a lot more meaning come through if you were a little less vague or mysteriously metaphorical tho haha

Kunga

haha I apologize for that I've known it all every year since I was about 5... not sure really how I learnt anything since then ;) But thanks Kunga I bet your sons took an interest after you philosophywise? I bet they are genius kids since they are the know it all types lol but that's only the ego talking.

Dennis Mahar · Post by **Dennis Mahar** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:44 am

Code: Select all

For some reason my mind perceived it as a criticism haha but I don't really mind, there's nothing to fix in the eyes of the world but there is important help that can be given dennis don't lie, you simply aren't spending enough time around people suffering if you think that's the case

You say you are an intuitive.
An intuitive realisation of emptiness.
An intuitive recognition is possible.

Granted.

An intuition is a packet of concepts unpacked. An intuition is still a conceptualising.

Rather than unpack the intuition into a logical coherent structure,
you,
(a) say you can't be bothered and are not good at it.
(b) ridicule those who make or have made the effort to unpack the realisation into a logical coherent structure.

Is that not the act of a cold, hard, calculating cunt?

The anima frenzy of syrupy, touchy/feely doesn't cut it.

Kunga · Post by **Kunga** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:48 am

SeekerOfWisdom wrote:I bet your sons took an interest after you philosophywise? I bet they are genius kids since they are the know it all types lol but that's only the ego talking.

One son is interested in Buddhism, the other is a music producer (both going to college/but have no idea what to major in still). They both are very social & have lots of friends...and are kind-hearted & liberal/open-minded. I see their attitude as just part of growing up...becoming adults....I let them think they know it all...as it's no use arguing with them...I just do it for fun & know when to stop before it gets too crazy....as I am happy with just being a dummy mom...lol

SeekerOfWisdom · Post by **SeekerOfWisdom** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:59 am

"Rather than unpack the intuition into a logical coherent structure,
you,
(a) say you can't be bothered and are not good at it.
(b) ridicule those who make or have made the effort to unpack the realisation into a logical coherent structure."

What if, I was right in not doing so? What if in doing so I were to be falling back into the fallacies of imagined and presumptuous knowledge? That is where I have previously come from, why would I move backward?

An analogy: Detailing the lamp, the sizes of the bolts and the bulb in an effort to convey the understanding of how to turn the lamp on.

I'll make a more lengthy post, which will be more "coherent" for you and everyone else, more detailed, luckily I know to do my best to avoid any false knowledge that comes with trying to determine the "how" of things. I will rightly keep in mind and explain that almost every concept that arises within the mind is completely "false", aka has no logical or real relation to reality but is only a momentary and fleeting illusion of real knowledge.

Granted it is not all knowledge, but it is very, very close to all knowledge, not just some, you can't say "It's ok for me to assume things sometimes".

Dennis Mahar · Post by **Dennis Mahar** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:13 am

An analogy: Detailing the lamp, the sizes of the bolts and the bulb in an effort to convey the understanding of how to turn the lamp on.

lamp is imputed on the base, bulb and bolts.

SeekerOfWisdom · Post by **SeekerOfWisdom** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:21 am

But is not necessary when saying, "turn the lamp on", is it? In fact, it brings you further away from your simple goal.

Dennis Mahar · Post by **Dennis Mahar** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:24 am

what lamp?

SeekerOfWisdom · Post by **SeekerOfWisdom** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:40 am

Communication, it doesn't help you achieve correct communication by filling it with nicely detailed flawed rationalizations.

Dennis, one day I'm going to have you agreeing completely on two things, 1. That your knowledge is so shallow that you can't even rightly say something as simple as that when your vision goes dark, that was because you closed your eyelids. And 2. That you are the be all and end all, the totality of being and existence.

jufa · Post by **jufa** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:15 pm

SeekerOfWisdom wrote:Jufa

I would have a lot more meaning come through if you were a little less vague or mysteriously metaphorical tho haha

SeekerOfWisdom, it is not true I present vague and mysterious words when communicating with you. I speak from a place which has no reality to you yet. I present a continuum of movement from intellectual comprehension to comprehensive intellect. Moving onward beyond calculus intellectualism into metaphysics. And as the moving finger writs, then moves on into abstract spiritualism, myth and metaphorical exploration. And then ones vagabonding leads one to a place incomprehensible. Jesus the Son of Man nor Buddha the Divine never entered this place mentally nor physically, for it is a Space only where omnipresent Spirit abide, and matter not. Both however were privileged to looks into the dark depth of themselves, and "glimpse,for a second, the reality of the light dwelling camouflaged as darkness."

Transcending the world of collective and individualized human thinking is the change of necessity needed, if men are to become receptive to Spirit forms absorbing the physical body in ascended form. Transcending is ascending beyond the words of human interpretations, beyond affirmations, beyond singularity of prayer for changing human situations and needs. Ascension is beyond the mantra and mode of human meditation. Ascension is stepping into the vacuum of the unconditioned Mind where Spirit is, and matter is not. Stepping into that secret place beyond the one called thee, me, and I, where there are no human thoughts, words, images or analytical human interpretations because they are of the Nature of Error, without God's ordination to “Let there be. - jufa

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa
http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com

Dennis Mahar · Post by **Dennis Mahar** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:17 pm

deflecting again.

how does the lamp exist?

SeekerOfWisdom · Post by **SeekerOfWisdom** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:40 pm

The actual lamp exists as an imagination, as does the conversation.

Jufa

No, you fancily describe nothing but an ordinary experience. You were still having experience yes? Or do you deny that? All you were doing is abandoning particular experience, particular form, for other experience, without form, the realm of nothing or the still merging with the infinitude of void that exists without perspective or focused awareness, no up or down, no body or form. Yes all human thoughts are false and delusional when in relation to what is real, just made a thread, but btw, you are "God", you have only been experiencing manifestations from the same source you are one with.

You can keep doing what you warned me against doing before when saying "SeekerOfWisdom, the problem you have in understanding my purpose and meaning stems from your position of attempting to make a point of truth for some one else without any knowledge of how that some one else came to be who they are.", or you can realize that everyone is having almost the exact same experiences as you, that we aren't individuals but are eternally one.

jufa · Post by **jufa** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:13 pm

SeekerOfWisdom wrote:The actual lamp exists as an imagination, as does the conversation.

Jufa

No, you fancily describe nothing but an ordinary experience. You were still having experience yes? Or do you deny that? All you were doing is abandoning particular experience, particular form, for other experience, without form, the realm of nothing or the still merging with the infinitude of void that exists without perspective or focused awareness, no up or down, no body or form. Yes all human thoughts are false and delusional when in relation to what is real, just made a thread, but btw, you are "God", you have only been experiencing manifestations from the same source you are one with.

You can keep doing what you warned me against doing before when saying "SeekerOfWisdom, the problem you have in understanding my purpose and meaning stems from your position of attempting to make a point of truth for some one else without any knowledge of how that some one else came to be who they are.", or you can realize that everyone is having almost the exact same experiences as you, that we aren't individuals but are eternally one.

The greatest deceiver of man is man. All man's judgments and visions are based upon his senses. And by man living his life by sense perception, he teaches himself from reflected illusions and sense feelings. The human mind can then only project reflected illusions of relative singularity because the human mind can only relate to Spirit Thoughts, or material thoughts “precept by precept, line upon line, here a little, there a little, thought by thought.

Such is the case here. Y'all have a better day ya-hear, and:

NEVER LET ANYONE THINK FOR YOU
NEVER LET ANY MAN SEEKING SALVATION
THE SAME AS YOU,
WHO SUFFER AND STRUGGLE THE
SAME AS YOU, TELL YOU ANYTHING.
FOR WHAT CAN HE TELL YOU THAT GOD
HAS NOT ALREADY TOLD YOU? - jufa
=======================

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa
http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com

SeekerOfWisdom · Post by **SeekerOfWisdom** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:47 pm

I agree, we are all experiencing the exact same kind of senses from which all knowledge and delusion are arising, so then you do also agree that you are one with what could be and really should be called divine mind? I'm under the impression there is no distinction between you and "god".

Cahoot · Post by **Cahoot** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:35 pm

jufa wrote:NEVER LET ANYONE THINK FOR YOU
NEVER LET ANY MAN SEEKING SALVATION
THE SAME AS YOU,
WHO SUFFER AND STRUGGLE THE
SAME AS YOU, TELL YOU ANYTHING.
FOR WHAT CAN HE TELL YOU THAT GOD
HAS NOT ALREADY TOLD YOU? - jufa

Seems like God tells you everything but a sage tells you what you need to hear.

Pam Seeback · Post by **Pam Seeback** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:53 am

Cahoot wrote:
jufa wrote:NEVER LET ANYONE THINK FOR YOU
NEVER LET ANY MAN SEEKING SALVATION
THE SAME AS YOU,
WHO SUFFER AND STRUGGLE THE
SAME AS YOU, TELL YOU ANYTHING.
FOR WHAT CAN HE TELL YOU THAT GOD
HAS NOT ALREADY TOLD YOU? - jufa
Seems like God tells you everything but a sage tells you what you need to hear.

The sage is one of many faces of God [the totality] telling you what you need to hear: every face of God is empty of absolute truth.

jufa · Post by **jufa** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:13 am

Cahoot wrote:
jufa wrote:NEVER LET ANYONE THINK FOR YOU
NEVER LET ANY MAN SEEKING SALVATION
THE SAME AS YOU,
WHO SUFFER AND STRUGGLE THE
SAME AS YOU, TELL YOU ANYTHING.
FOR WHAT CAN HE TELL YOU THAT GOD
HAS NOT ALREADY TOLD YOU? - jufa
Seems like God tells you everything but a sage tells you what you need to hear.

Why go to God in the beginning then if a man satisfies your needs?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa
http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com

Cahoot · Post by **Cahoot** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:50 am

jufa wrote:
Cahoot wrote:
jufa wrote:NEVER LET ANYONE THINK FOR YOU
NEVER LET ANY MAN SEEKING SALVATION
THE SAME AS YOU,
WHO SUFFER AND STRUGGLE THE
SAME AS YOU, TELL YOU ANYTHING.
FOR WHAT CAN HE TELL YOU THAT GOD
HAS NOT ALREADY TOLD YOU? - jufa
Seems like God tells you everything but a sage tells you what you need to hear.
Why go to God in the beginning then if a man satisfies your needs?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa
http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com

What you hear from the sage is a subset of everything heard.

Cahoot · Post by **Cahoot** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:54 am

movingalways wrote:
Cahoot wrote:
jufa wrote:NEVER LET ANYONE THINK FOR YOU
NEVER LET ANY MAN SEEKING SALVATION
THE SAME AS YOU,
WHO SUFFER AND STRUGGLE THE
SAME AS YOU, TELL YOU ANYTHING.
FOR WHAT CAN HE TELL YOU THAT GOD
HAS NOT ALREADY TOLD YOU? - jufa
Seems like God tells you everything but a sage tells you what you need to hear.
The sage is one of many faces of God [the totality] telling you what you need to hear: every face of God is empty of absolute truth.

Seems like when you hear what you need to hear you are hearing the voice of the sage, from whichever individuated expression of God that voice eminates.

SeekerOfWisdom · Post by **SeekerOfWisdom** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:47 am

If you were to completely let go of all that knowledge, you would see that the sage is God, not just a subset, but the totality of, you encompass all of known existence.

GENIUS FORUMS

There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance

Re: There can be no suffering without ignorance