GENIUS FORUMS

I'm in a debate with a Baptist, and I need to find the passage that will back me up. I know that Jesus said in the Bible (I saw it somewhere in the new revised standard version with Apocryphal/Deuterocanonical books) that we should think for ourselves. This Baptist Sunday School teacher says that Jesus never said that. Does someone know where that passage is?

Yes, try this:

http://www.noodletools.com/debbie/liter ... ngine.html

Hope it helps.

Mark 16:16:

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I don't recall Jesus saying anything about thinking for yourself, and it seems like an unlikely thing for him to say. (However, I have not looked through the Apocrypha - there could be something there. It's not like the Bible never contradicts itself.)

Christianity emphasizes the importance of faith. Faith is firmly believing a doctrine without proof, so that kind of rules out thinking for yourself. Adam and Eve is a good example of what happens (in the Bible) when you think for yourself (i.e., you are tempted by Satan).

More quotes:
A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. -- Romans 3:28
Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. -- Romans 5:1
A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ. -- Galatians 2:16
For by grace are ye saved through faith. -- Ephesians 2:8


This all reminds me of the scene in Life of Brian where Brian tells the crowd to think for themselves, and they all chant in unison, "Yes! We must think for ourselves!" Thinking for yourself because a book tells you to seems like kind of a bad start.

Elizabeth, if you are in a debate about Jesus and need a piece of scripture to back you up, you have already lost - and likely deserve to do so.

These are from David's Jesus page:

For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5: 20

--

"Why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right? Luke 12: 57

This alone negates the whole of Christianity, which demands from its adherents completely submission to an external authority figure - whether it be in the guise of the bible, or a religious leader, or a collection of rules and tenets.

--

"Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly." John 7: 24

Dan Rowden wrote: if you are in a debate about Jesus and need a piece of scripture to back you up, you have already lost

Good point. I was thinking in literary terms, like arguing whether Tom Sawyer had said a particular thing or not - probably not what was going on here.

Matt wrote: "Why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right? Luke 12: 57

"Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly." John 7: 24

I might argue (although not very strenuously) that these verses are not telling you to think for yourself, but rather to judge properly, in accordance with law and tradition. (You know what's right; it's right there in the book.) Judging does take some thought - but not necessarily independent thought.

That's a good point, Dave.

Matt Gregory wrote:"Why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right? Luke 12: 57

"Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly." John 7: 24

This may have been what I was remembering - thanks Matt.

Dan Rowden wrote:Elizabeth, if you are in a debate about Jesus and need a piece of scripture to back you up, you have already lost - and likely deserve to do so.

Not at all. When the truth is in the Bible but the Christians overlook it, it is twice as powerful to show them the truth with their own Bible. The whole Bible is not complete nonsense, but when Evil took over Christianity, it poisoned the truth of Jesus' words and made a far more convincing lie than had pure lies been told. Much the same thing happened in other religions - someone saw the Truth and taught it as best they could, but after the deaths of the messengers, Evil would creep in and the followers started worshiping the messengers instead of the Infinite One. When Evil was able to take the focus off the Infinite One and poison the truthful message with lies, not only would much of the message be lost, but the deluded followers staunchly refuse to see the Truth, though fear or other emotions instilled by the Great Liar.

Elizabeth, thanks for the laugh! "The Great Liar!" I'm in stitches....


"Evil" crept in, hahaha! Yes, go on, argue with the deluded christian! There's your Great Liar! He's even crept into the mirror!

I can hear flint striking sparks while primitive men gather in a circle around an early artist completing his cave-painting masterpiece. Behind it all I hear your words, Elizabeth, loudest of all.

Some people just don't appreciate a bit of poetry.

Open up their mind a little by showing them some of the wisdom of buddhism, simply written, like here for example

http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/fourtruths.html
http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/eightfoldpath.html - Right Mindfulness

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:I'm in a debate with a Baptist, and I need to find the passage that will back me up. I know that Jesus said in the Bible (I saw it somewhere in the new revised standard version with Apocryphal/Deuterocanonical books) that we should think for ourselves. This Baptist Sunday School teacher says that Jesus never said that. Does someone know where that passage is?

......


Try this:
"He who rules his spirit has won a greater
victory than the taking of a city."

Jesus Quotes - thinkarete
http://www.thinkarete.com/quotes/by_teacher/jesus/


This is a fairly good site.
Also, see Philosopher's Notes


Tomas


.

poetry.com<--[CLICK].

Book of revelations.

From wiki:

"Radical discipleship

The radical discipleship view asserts that the Book of Revelation is best understood as a handbook for radical discipleship; i.e. how to remain faithful to the teachings of Jesus and avoid getting lured by worldly ways. In this view, the primary agenda of the book is to expose the worldly powers as impostors which seek to oppose the ways of God. The chief temptation for Christians in the 1st Century, and today, is to fail to hold fast to the teachings of Jesus and instead be lured into adopting worldly ways, values, and priorities - imperialism being the most dangerous and insidious. This perspective (closely related to Liberation theology) draws on the approach of radical Bible scholars such as Ched Myers, William Stringfellow, and Daniel Berrigan.[23]"

Calvin even wanted it removed from the bible. But then I know almost nothing of the bible.

When two or more are gathered in his name, he is there. Why don't you just ask him?