GENIUS FORUMS

I had been watching a television program the other day, and a man made an off the cuff remark when someone told him to "Go to Hell", he replied in words to the effect, I'm a Jew. Jews don't believe in Hell.

This remark got me very interested in the philosophy of Judaism. I have never studied much about it, for I was raised Christian. However, I think it next on my list.

You had mentioned that you were from a Jewish background, so, in the interim, can you give me a teaser lesson?

passthrough wrote:I had been watching a television program the other day, and a man made an off the cuff remark when someone told him to "Go to Hell", he replied in words to the effect, I'm a Jew. Jews don't believe in Hell.

This remark got me very interested in the philosophy of Judaism. I have never studied much about it, for I was raised Christian. However, I think it next on my list.

You had mentioned that you were from a Jewish background, so, in the interim, can you give me a teaser lesson?

Traditional judaism is a racist, elitist beief system, in which the jews are to control and lead the world. Judaism actually goes more off of the talmud than the torah, but you will never hear this said in the mainstream media. Reformed Judaism is just as meaningless and watered down as most mainstream churches.

There are many CHRISTIANS who will tell you the jews are still the chosen people. This is a twisting of christianity for political correctness, and so the jews feel good about it. Many christians are noahides in disguise. Ger Toshav.

Mil,
Somehow I got the impression that you are Christian. Passt was looking for insight from the Jewish perspective.

Passt - I'm not Jewish either, but here's a link to something that might help you a little:
beliefnet - Jewish

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:Mil,
Somehow I got the impression that you are Christian. Passt was looking for insight from the Jewish perspective.

Passt - I'm not Jewish either, but here's a link to something that might help you a little:
beliefnet - Jewish

A religions teachings are it's teachings, regardless of who relays the information. Just as two plus two equals four, regardless of who's doing the math.

Is there any specific aspect of my summary which you believe is inaccurate?

millipodium wrote:

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:Mil,
Somehow I got the impression that you are Christian. Passt was looking for insight from the Jewish perspective.

Passt - I'm not Jewish either, but here's a link to something that might help you a little:
beliefnet - Jewish

A religions teachings are it's teachings, regardless of who relays the information. Just as two plus two equals four, regardless of who's doing the math.

Is there any specific aspect of my summary which you believe is inaccurate?

I do not have evidence to call the following quote inaccurate, but neither have I seen any evidence to support the following:

in which the jews are to control and lead the world.

I accept your statement:

Judaism actually goes more off of the talmud than the torah, but you will never hear this said in the mainstream media.

and I have general awareness enough to substantially doubt much of what lands in "mainstream media." Because of that, I will not even go so far as to call your "jews are to control and lead the world" quote "unsubstantiated" but I do not have any evidence to suggest that is conclusivly correct.

I have and have had jewish friends, and none of them ever gave any indication that they wanted to take over the world. Granted, that could be called flimsey counter-evidence, but flimsy counter-evidence still outweighs an absence of evidence. I still can only call the theory about Jews conspiring to take over the world inconclusive at best at this point.

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:

millipodium wrote:

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:Mil,
Somehow I got the impression that you are Christian. Passt was looking for insight from the Jewish perspective.

Passt - I'm not Jewish either, but here's a link to something that might help you a little:
beliefnet - Jewish

A religions teachings are it's teachings, regardless of who relays the information. Just as two plus two equals four, regardless of who's doing the math.

Is there any specific aspect of my summary which you believe is inaccurate?

I do not have evidence to call the following quote inaccurate, but neither have I seen any evidence to support the following:

in which the jews are to control and lead the world.

I accept your statement:

Judaism actually goes more off of the talmud than the torah, but you will never hear this said in the mainstream media.

and I have general awareness enough to substantially doubt much of what lands in "mainstream media." Because of that, I will not even go so far as to call your "jews are to control and lead the world" quote "unsubstantiated" but I do not have any evidence to suggest that is conclusivly correct.

I have and have had jewish friends, and none of them ever gave any evidence that they wanted to take over the world. Granted, that could be called flimsey counter-evidence, but flimsy counter-evidence still outweighs an absence of evidence. I still can only call the theory about Jews conspiring to take over the world inconclusive at best at this point.

They are "a light unto the world". have you heard that phrase.

In Olam Ha Ba-- the world to come, Their messiah will rule the world and noahide courts will uphold the noahide laws AMONGST ALL NATIONS. It is their duty to bring all nations under the rule of israel to help prepare for moshiach.

google the term NOAHIDE, or OLAM HA BA, and verify all of this for yourself.

I suggest a google search. but here a few of my favorites.

http://www.moshiach.com/ -- this one has cool artwork.



http://forums.torah.org/viewforum.php?f=6 -- this one is a discussion forum. I have actually read discussions where the rabbi on here is telling people that beheadings of idolators will resume when the temple system reconvenes.

Eliza, I was Jewish, and sad to say, milli is actually shockingly correct. Traditional Judaism is a horrible, elitist, segregationalist religion. The only saving grace is the fact that nobody, not even the average Jew, knows anything about it.

Because there's a lot of stupidity in the ancient texts, Rabbis have become farther removed from reality than even the worst academic philosopher. It's backward. Christian theology is centuries ahead. Rabbis talk nonsense until they come to agreements on things that are more retarded than the old Schoolman question: "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

Orthodox Jews are not allowed to: eat unkosher food, have their head uncovered (males only, because females can only have a relationship to G-d through their husbands), marry outside of the faith (even converts are impure, and the children will not be considered sons of Abraham), have the women in sight of the men (including the Rabbi) at synagogue... on and on and on... there are over 300 such laws.

Now, kosher food deserves a special mention. Millions of dollars each year are quite literally stolen by Rabbis in the form of a "kosher food tax", in which Rabbis check that all the ingredients and procedures at a factory follow Biblical guidelines. If they do, then the factory must pay a tax to have a tiny "K" placed on the packaging, a "K" which makes the difference between whether or not Jews will eat the food or not.

There are, I must add, no health benefits to eating kosher food.

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:Eliza, I was Jewish, and sad to say, milli is actually shockingly correct. Traditional Judaism is a horrible, elitist, segregationalist religion. The only saving grace is the fact that nobody, not even the average Jew, knows anything about it.

Because there's a lot of stupidity in the ancient texts, Rabbis have become farther removed from reality than even the worst academic philosopher. It's backward. Christian theology is centuries ahead. Rabbis talk nonsense until they come to agreements on things that are more retarded than the old Schoolman question: "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

Orthodox Jews are not allowed to: eat unkosher food, have their head uncovered (males only, because females can only have a relationship to G-d through their husbands), marry outside of the faith (even converts are impure, and the children will not be considered sons of Abraham), have the women in sight of the men (including the Rabbi) at synagogue... on and on and on... there are over 300 such laws.

Now, kosher food deserves a special mention. Millions of dollars each year are quite literally stolen by Rabbis in the form of a "kosher food tax", in which Rabbis check that all the ingredients and procedures at a factory follow Biblical guidelines. If they do, then the factory must pay a tax to have a tiny "K" placed on the packaging, a "K" which makes the difference between whether or not Jews will eat the food or not.

There are, I must add, no health benefits to eating kosher food.

of course you know, trevor, you will always be a jew.

"They keep pulling me back in." -- Michael Corleone.

(And I will always be a second class noahide)

milli

of course you know, trevor, you will always be a jew.

Yes, I forgot about that clause. You are correct. But I'm also a lower-class Jew, because my father is Catholic (and he never converted). I'm not a true son of Abraham.

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:milli

of course you know, trevor, you will always be a jew.

Yes, I know. But I'm also a lower-class Jew, because my father is Catholic (and he never converted). I'm not a true son of Abraham.

Eww. I can't believe I'm actually TALKING to you. I must be slumming.

milli,

Eww. I can't believe I'm actually TALKING to you. I must be slumming.

It's still better than if my father was a Jew, and my mother Catholic. Jewishness is contained in the mother's genes (I wish I was making that up), so I'm still automatically Jewish and am not counted as a convert. And, I'm still more Jew than you, and hence your superior. :)

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:milli,

Eww. I can't believe I'm actually TALKING to you. I must be slumming.

It's still better than if my father was a Jew, and my mother Catholic. Jewishness is contained in the mother's genes (I wish I was making that up), so I'm still automatically Jewish and am not counted as a convert. And, I'm still more Jew than you, and hence your superior. :)

It's ok. I understand that jews have a soul different than everyone else's. "Special needs".

Trevor Salyzyn wrote: It's still better than if my father was a Jew, and my mother Catholic. Jewishness is contained in the mother's genes (I wish I was making that up), so I'm still automatically Jewish and am not counted as a convert. And, I'm still more Jew than you, and hence your superior. :)

So if you are not a son of Abraham, but neither are you a convert, if you were to have offspring by a jewish woman, would your son be a son of Abraham?

EI,
That's very confusing, but I believe the answer is no. The higher class of Jews, which there is a name for and it's not "son of Abraham" but it has a very similar meaning, is almost the same thing as "pureblood wizards" in Harry Potter. My mom is, but I am not. My children forevermore cannot be pureblood sons of Abraham, since I'm not.

There are Jewish women who would not marry me because my father is not Jewish.

If anyone knows the actual word for this, I'd be pleased to hear it. I knew it years and years ago.

The closest thing to a higher class of Jews I ever heard of was Levi. That's a very pure strain.

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:Traditional Judaism is a horrible, elitist, segregationalist religion.

Because there's a lot of stupidity in the ancient texts, Rabbis have become farther removed from reality than even the worst academic philosopher. It's backward. Christian theology is centuries ahead.

Nothing is new under the sun.

Christian theology would be ahead because Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecy, however, Jesus was a Jew and followed Jewish custom and law unless it circumvented his two greatest Commandments, then he would violate that law to do what was just and right in the eyes of God. In short, it appears the Old Testament methods weren't working to change man's hearts.

There is a lot of argument about the New Testament and what Jesus "actually" said. Obviously, some things get lost in the translation. I was wondering what the Jewish basis was for not believing in Hell. Jesus talks about Hell in the Bible, but yet, if he were a Jew and Jews do not believe in Hell then what was he really saying?

Actually passthrough, I would say Plato, not Christ, is the primary reason Christian theology is so far ahead of Jewish mysticism.

Trevor, thank you. I am still picking from the low lying fruit on the tree...another post. I can understand why Plato may have done a lot for the progression of logic and reason, but "Christian theology"? Perhaps we can draw and state that Jesus Christ started the idea leaving Paul and others to develop the theology. Plato's, etal rules of logic, reason...basic thinking skills allow us all to ponder it.

Jesus Christ said on more than one occasion that it was not to the wise and learned that he spoke - his reasoning for speaking in parables, but to little children. Little children defined as the apostles who had complete and utter blind faith in their Master and God. Only those who walk in that blind faith will progress to the point of utter union with God and leave behind all of their learnedness and other notions of spiritual ideology.

However, that being said, I am going to return to school in the next semester to begin my studies most likely with Plato. It is not for a spiritual purpose, per se, but to gain a better understanding of people not only on this board but in general, myself included. I am around many different types of people all the time with varying values and belief systems, and yet very few people get to the stage in life as some on this board. I, myself, stay confused a lot.

Knowledge is not a path to God, but it helps in order to know what not to do in order to get there.

I still would like to know the answer about Hell. If it is true, then Jesus was not talking about the typical Christian Hell. So what was he talking about?

Passthrough, I had the good fortune to be raised in a non-religious family, so I don't know much at all about Jewish theology. Certainly you don't hear much about an afterlife in Judaism except in the more mystical strains like Kabbalah. I think the idea is more as it was in the Old Testament when you had a personal relationship with God & he would smite you if you did something wrong rather than wait 50 years till you dropped dead & send you to hell. But I am not an expert on this subject.
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