WTC Collapse

Lennyrizzo · Post by **Lennyrizzo** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:41 am

When it comes to the president's safety, the welfare of a classroom of children matters about as much as the welfare of cockroaches in the school. No joke.
Don't you think, see even, that he considers himself so essentially valuable that the death of no persons, citizens even, whatever the number, could be too great a sacrifice?
Here is the unique problem we are faced with in this day and age, and why we could use more politicians with the patience and faith of a Carter.

Never before have we been as effective at protecting VIP's. So they have much less to fear for their decisions and their mistakes, which can be - and has been - a terrible reality.
However if not for the slim risk that he and his may be within range of some missle or massive explosion, his foreign policy decisions may have been less disasterous.

DHodges · Post by **DHodges** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:01 pm

Lennyrizzo wrote:Don't you think, see even, that he considers himself so essentially valuable that the death of no persons, citizens even, whatever the number, could be too great a sacrifice?

No doubt he sees himself that way, and his security force is supposed to see it that way.

So it's interesting that he was dicking around in a school in Florida, and then eventually got into the air without a fighter escort - meanwhile, the Secret Service bursts in on Dick Cheney, and carries him off to an underground bunker. Bush's security seems relatively confused and half-assed.

Rynarlah Syanah · Post by **Rynarlah Syanah** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:00 pm

DHodges wrote:http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles3/bushlies.html
I realize that these are next exactly credible sources (David Icke being quite nutty)... but it seems like there aren't any credible sources.

David Icke is nutts ? Well he believe's the world is controlled by Reptile Aliens and that the Royal Queen is one of them. Right.....

Butl, im quite convinced of the Illuminati's existence, and their possible influence behind the WTC attacks. People like Alex Jones brings credible information.

Tomas · Post by **Tomas** » Mon May 28, 2007 5:58 pm

.

Goodness... wrote this (the below) almost two years ago. Sheesh! Time for more tin-foil hat sessions. Gonna have to take it apart sentence by ...

Tomas (the tank)
Prince of Jerualem
16 Degree
Scottish Rite Free Mason

........

Tomas wrote:Reminder to self ... self! - try not to ramble on at the mouth for too long ... keep on topic.

OK, got that out of the way.

Yeah, the whole thing reeks of pre-planning.

The 'jet video' just happened to show up on network media within minutes of the tower hits.

Eye (ear) witnesses claiming to hear shreeking just before the thunderous booms.

Finding the ID of one of the so-called hi-jackers in a sea of office paper strewn everywhere.

How jet fuel (kerosene) could burn so hot to melt the airplanes into nothing. It's not as "hot" as gasoline burns.

I think? the planes were 767s - capable of being flown robotically from the ground and/or satellite-guided.

Ditto for the one shot down by the 'Happy Hooligans' based out of Fargo, North Dakota. (warthog)

People near the Pittsburgh one that recalled (and saw) the telltale signature of shreeking sound and the white underings of military craft.

Same for the shreeking sound at the Pentagon.

I would recognize the shreek sound when or if i heard it again - i may be getting older but it's a sound i'll never forget. I wasn't in VietNam that long but i saw and heard plenty of missiles whizzing about the skies and witnessing them coming back to terra firma.

I mean, you know? the Pentagon (powers that be) have never released the surveillance videos that surround the Pentagon. Give me a break already - if it was a plane that hit the Pentagon - the spooks would have released the footage.
Nuff said.

And then George Bush is hangin' with the kiddies reading 'My Pet Goat'. Talk about paradox.

Not from a religious sense - but GOATS are about as demonic as these scull and bonesmen can get. Hitler was a member (initiate) of the Thule Society.

Trading With The Enemy Act (ww2) was specifically to stop Prescott Bush (W's grand-daddy) to stop trading with the Third Reich. His Union Bank was the money pie setting it all up. W's maternal great-grand-daddy George Walker, got Hitler started all the way back in 1922.

Conspiracy aside, all that is a matter of public record.

Thre are some creepy people out there pulling the strings.

It's like FDR said (paraphrase) 'Nothing happens in politics by chance.'

Poli-tics = many blood-sucking creatures

We're all on the same life raft - every now and then (as the food and water runs out) somebody has gotta be pushed over. Like in Iraq, it's usually the women with children that are dumped first. The ghouls with the fistful of silver/gold ride it out for another night. It's the same on the world stage - Bush goes on "vacation" (oblivious to the working stiff travails) - but the wars grind on because we the little people are continually pushed over the side with another b.s. story concocted by the powers that be.

Give us this day our daily bread...

Note: it may be a couple days before i get back here to the Forum

PS to Dan - this is much better than Topica listserve

Tomas (the tank)
VietNam veteran - 1971

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:57 am

Tomas - I really appreciate the pieces about the great grandparents - that's something that hasn't cropped up anywhere else that I have seen. It gives me something further to dig into. Thanks.

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:01 pm

You have to look at the entire events of 9/11 and everything that dealed with it not just the buildings to realize there was something very very fishy going on. For example, for some strange reason, ISRAEL has lots and lots to do with this attack, and the US are keeping it a big secret.

http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradf ... mmary.html

and http://www.iamthewitness.com/Expose-Bollyn-trial.html of why an innocent investigator was illegally jailed without charges, and why they destroyed video evidence of him being brutally tazered and violated.

http://www.iamthewitness.com/HowToHelp.html

watch the 9/11 video on that site, not to mention the rest of them.

http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradf ... eline.html

http://www.geeman-headquarters.com/Geeman_Videos.html

watch ALL those videos.

http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradf ... edman.html good old benjamin'

http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradf ... schild.htm on the corrupt Zionist banking family of the Rothschilds that created the monsters the Federal Reserve, Bank of England, and any other PRIVATELY owned national bank.

Theodor Herzl, Founder of Zionism in 1897:
â€œIt is essential that the sufferings of Jews. . . become worse. . . this will assist in realization of our plans. . . I have an excellent idea. . . I shall induce anti-semites to liquidate Jewish wealth. . . The anti-semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews. The anti-semites shall be our best friendsâ€.

-- From Herzl's Diary

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:13 pm

Faust13 wrote: and http://www.iamthewitness.com/Expose-Bollyn-trial.html of why an innocent investigator was illegally jailed without charges, and why they destroyed video evidence of him being brutally tazered and violated.

Ooh, a timely one. His trial is in 3 days.

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:24 pm

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:
Faust13 wrote: and http://www.iamthewitness.com/Expose-Bollyn-trial.html of why an innocent investigator was illegally jailed without charges, and why they destroyed video evidence of him being brutally tazered and violated.
Ooh, a timely one. His trial is in 3 days.

It really sucks that God doesn't exist.

Oh and let's not forget the Protocols of the Elders of Zion everyone wants to think it's a forgery, but it's just too damn good and true to be one. Even if it was a forgery, it would be merely an accurate press release.

http://www.savethemales.ca/000298.html

http://www.iamthewitness.com/Protocols-of-Zion.htm

http://www.savethemales.ca/000205.html

Oh and we should always suspect Freemasonry and the Illuminati. It may sound obscene, but they're definitely a suspect, and suspects are never let go..

http://www.savethemales.ca/001280.html

http://www.savethemales.ca/000166.html

Diebert van Rhijn · Post by **Diebert van Rhijn** » Wed May 30, 2007 8:29 am

From the list Tomas wrote two years ago:

Tomas wrote: Finding the ID of one of the so-called hi-jackers in a sea of office paper strewn everywhere.

To me this is the only really weird item on your list Tomas, all the others points sound like old wives talk.

I've seen pictures of that particular street and it didn't seem like a sea of paper to me at all, just messy. The ID appeared to be a false ID too according to the later official 9/11 report. So anyone could have supplied it, including people not directly connected to the hijackers but only, lets say, guarding them, making sure all the traces would be followed (in case other clues got lost). The person who found the passport remains anonymous, a business suite who just ran off after handing it over....

So far all the evidence suggests to me the hijackers had some higher force watching over them, to make sure they'd succeed and the correct people would be blamed. Theories that the whole operation would be engineered by a hidden party (non AQ) as a whole seems very unlikely. But for some shadowy agency to trail these people, perhaps not even sure of the details yet, and then to jump on the opportunity given to point to the 'bad men'... now that's within the realms of the possibilities and looks more like some other historically documented cases. And so far the only candidate in terms of motive and presence would be some small Israeli spy squad, official or unofficial working for some Israeli faction.

The only research that could blow this case further open is the AIPAC espionage scandal perhaps and also interesting is this New Zealand Israeli spy case twist where the Mossad shines as consisting of clumsy passport frauding criminal types.

With this in mind I do wonder if the protocols of Zion, started as a conspiracy hoax, the mother of the modern conspiracy religion, have somehow become a self-fulfilling prophecy: because these 'networks' of bankers, politicians and Zionists (other fanatic pro-Israeli) seem more powerful than ever. mirrored of course in Al-Queda.

The word is full of global conspiracy networks these days. If we'd all connect them we'd have a World Wide Conspiracy Web, a new world order protocol! Like nwop://....

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Wed May 30, 2007 8:33 am

What seemed most peculiar to me was that supposedly the entire plane vaporized except for the terrorist's ID.

Diebert van Rhijn · Post by **Diebert van Rhijn** » Wed May 30, 2007 8:47 am

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:What seemed most peculiar to me was that supposedly the entire plane vaporized except for the terrorist's ID.

There are actually someparts of the plane found and also much more contents of the baggage. To find such a crucial document is still very peculiar but it's not true everything else vaporized.

Carl G · Post by **Carl G** » Wed May 30, 2007 1:09 pm

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:So far all the evidence suggests to me the hijackers had some higher force watching over them, to make sure they'd succeed and the correct people would be blamed. Theories that the whole operation would be engineered by a hidden party (non AQ) as a whole seems very unlikely.

So far the evidence suggests to me that the twin towers (and building 7) were brought down by controlled demolition, with planted explosives, likely including Thermite. This rules out hijackers acting alone. Also, all reports so far indicate that none of the supposed hijackers could ably fly a Cessna, let alone a 757 with the military precision needed, under pressure. So when you say they may have had some higher force watching out for them, I agree in a big way. That is if there even were hijackers. And if there were, did they actually have any idea themselves what was coming down? They may have thought themselves part of a U.S. military exercise (which was in full swing the morning of the 'attack'). There is also some indication that at least 3 of the 4 flying objects destroyed on 9/11 were not the American Airlines passenger planes that took off from their respective runways. For instance, it seems conclusive, at this point, that what hit the Pentagon was not a 757, but rather a small military plane or guided missile of some kind.

There is much more to the story than appears on the surface. I sometimes see 9/11 as a prime test for thinkers. No wonder the emotional aspects were played up heavy right from the first moment by media and government.

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Wed May 30, 2007 4:32 pm

Carl G wrote:
Diebert van Rhijn wrote:So far all the evidence suggests to me the hijackers had some higher force watching over them, to make sure they'd succeed and the correct people would be blamed. Theories that the whole operation would be engineered by a hidden party (non AQ) as a whole seems very unlikely.
So far the evidence suggests to me that the twin towers (and building 7) were brought down by controlled demolition, with planted explosives, likely including Thermite. This rules out hijackers acting alone. Also, all reports so far indicate that none of the supposed hijackers could ably fly a Cessna, let alone a 757 with the military precision needed, under pressure. So when you say they may have had some higher force watching out for them, I agree in a big way. That is if there even were hijackers. And if there were, did they actually have any idea themselves what was coming down? They may have thought themselves part of a U.S. military exercise (which was in full swing the morning of the 'attack'). There is also some indication that at least 3 of the 4 flying objects destroyed on 9/11 were not the American Airlines passenger planes that took off from their respective runways. For instance, it seems conclusive, at this point, that what hit the Pentagon was not a 757, but rather a small military plane or guided missile of some kind.

There is much more to the story than appears on the surface. I sometimes see 9/11 as a prime test for thinkers. No wonder the emotional aspects were played up heavy right from the first moment by media and government.

The pentagon attack is totally retarded. Somehow we're to accept that a huge ass 757 went into that, when all we see left is some puny scraps of metal that are too small, a too small engine, a too small tire, a too small jet, and no traces of luggage or even human bodies whatsoever.

Diebert van Rhijn · Post by **Diebert van Rhijn** » Wed May 30, 2007 7:26 pm

Conspiracy theory is one of the new wide spread religions of this hyperreal media age. And I hate to debate faith with believers. Frightening thing is that this religion is not separated from the state and I could name many politicians around the globe worshiping this idol - even to the extreme of human sacrifice, in the form of their frontline soldiers or sitting-duck civilians... as it could somehow incarnate their god (I mean: theory - or prophecy) into reality.

I believe another example that has similar complexity is the USS Libery incident in 1967. There are many very good reasons to suspect some conspiracy to get the US to nuke Egypt and so on. But after investigating the whole thing it seems just a bizarre real-life-like cumulation of errors. Bottom line: technological systems, airport security, skyscraper constructions and the whole war machinery is just way less perfect than we like to believe. It's all human centered and full of hubris by default.

It's hard to become really faithless

Carl G · Post by **Carl G** » Wed May 30, 2007 10:37 pm

Bottom line: technological systems, airport security, skyscraper constructions and the whole war machinery is just way less perfect than we like to believe.

Sounds like faith talking.

Have you actually investigated? Impartially?

Diebert van Rhijn · Post by **Diebert van Rhijn** » Wed May 30, 2007 11:06 pm

Carl G wrote: Have you actually investigated? Impartially?

Yeah, I probably spent more time reading, viewing and pondering points of view and submitted evidence than most and more than I should have anyway but I like a good puzzle and could really envision some gang actually blowing up their own people. You cannot throw anything new at me or something that hasn't been explained over time within bounds of healthy logic and reason. Apart perhaps from the intelligence question (passive foreknowledge, Israeli spies, etc), that is also way more difficult to address because its very nature (handling of information).

Once it's established the majority of the people live in ignorance, wallow in lies and deception moment to moment, it's not hard to believe in any conspiracy. It's just that blundering and self-serving fantasies on a grand scale become a way more likely option than most are willing to admit.

There are besides the WTC collapse still a lot of interesting mysteries that could use more exposure like the Antrax attacks in the US: an actual real multiple WMD attack inside the country and somehow leads are cold and apparently research into it is stalled, going nowhere. IF you can't trace such an open attack close by, let alone defend against, how could one ever address WMD in another nation? Or ask from Saddam or Iran to prove they are clean?

So it's not like I'm into debunking. I just think there's a great danger and lure to get carried away by suspecting grand overarching conspiracies in every corner of every big event. Lets just say I see a pattern from Moon Hoax till 9/11 theories that remind me of a need for gods and demons above us to explain what we cannot phantom. The sad thing is that the greatest conspiracy theorists are people like Cheney, Rumsfeld who have based US foreign policy of the last years on flimsy evidence of looming disaster. We need more realists, not more conspiracy ideas in my opinion.

Carl G · Post by **Carl G** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:47 pm

Looks like more folks here believe the planes caused the towers to fall than not, but I still say it's controlled demolition. Laugh if you want, Kevin.

Tomas · Post by **Tomas** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:53 pm

Carl G wrote:Looks like more folks here believe the planes caused the towers to fall than not, but I still say it's controlled demolition. Laugh if you want, Kevin.

Yes. Controlled demolition!

Earthquake sensors don't lie.

Tomas

7

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Pincho Paxton · Post by **Pincho Paxton** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:50 pm

What's with all these old posts popping up?

WTC.. two buildings, and Building 7. Dissapearing planes, and freefall. Terrorists found to be alive, but ID's found in the destruction. Videos showing that the Jet just appeared from nowhere, and didn't have time to fly across the screen to the tower. Cut, and melted beams of steel, and not enough rubble to reform the building afterwards, and the only interior remaining furnishing was a phone.

You can make no sense of this information....

......Sounds like the Bermuda Triangle fell on New York.

GENIUS FORUMS

WTC Collapse

President

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