GENIUS FORUMS

Just a passing comment, Frank,

QRS can 'tidy' up the Script and it's 'Language & Lexicon' and thereby have it be a sensible Vehicle for all people to access in their seeking of Freedom...

The Genius is in the Script Development.

This has been happening for years on the board, and hence, many years ago, I insisted that David write a book that he had been putting off for some reason or another, which in my opinion would necessarily be devoid of shallow arguments, and indeed allow ideas to be expressed without having a reluctant opponent in mind, which generally is the case on the board. In fact, I was one of the reasons that insisted they move to a BBS board from an e-mail list, since although I read it for quite a while; I could hardly follow what was being discussed.

The book should be a good read as David can express himself much more than I ever could, but even then, that is just a beginning point for a first time reader. I haven’t read it all, I’m lazy, and that I know what David is all about.

‘Tidy up’ the forum depends on when and how the QRS will be caused to. What can I say… You might be one of the causes, I hope.

I understand your genuine concern towards Truth though.

Will get back to other points later, people.

.

Zag,

Quote:
Continuity guarantees itself. Strife is an effect of our experience.


Ok, if so, then is ‘Continuity guarantees itself’ devoid of any experience?? Of course not, so that is besides the point. In my opinion it is the opposite; experience is the effect of strife, and so is everything else, and strife is what keeps the continuity well and alive, in effect, causality.

It may be besides the point as regards ourselves, but it is the point as far as we can ever regard continuity itself (infinity). Experience is the effect of life.

We cannot deny that things are happening, but things don’t just happen; they are made to happen by the present causal conditions. Their helplessness to rely on previous causal conditions does not negate the fact that it can and does produce new and possible diversities. Now this idea or thinking, places all things in their logical framework, for me. I consider this a step beyond understanding casualty as a God, as a totally “controlling” thing, because that is just what one makes it to be, just another “thing” that helplessly controls, which is basically kindergarten stuff, although quite profound in its own right, in its own time.

Things may not just happen, but the universe itself, as far as it is possible for us to know, just happens, causes itself. I understand nothing at all as a 'god'.

Quote:
zag: First and foremost there is the universe.

sapius: If you say so… But first and foremost, I wonder who is saying that?

Well I did, and...(see below)

Quote: Zag:
...We understand this through experiencing ourselves before all else.

Are you saying that a mind is first and foremost here? I mean, that helps understand that the Universe is first and foremost?

No, we understand that the universe comes before our mind by recognizing the emergence of our mind.

I’m confused! :D

Let’s just drop this first and foremost business, because actually there is no ‘first and foremost’ when we talk about existence, it is just the Now, infinitely. Rest is what one makes of it, including all that I say.

You started it! :D The infinity of the moment allows us to discuss an order of occurrence does it not?

For those that don't know, I live in Hong Kong, it is 13:13 hrs, thunderous clouds and lightening, I’m surrounded by lush trees swaying on the mountain slopes on three sides, I can see the restless sea lashing at the island in the far front while sitting in my living room and typing this, so let me go in the midst of it all and absorb the feel of it. :){/quote]

In the midst of it with your whole self or what of it you perceive through your window?! You are free, and I cannot see where we inherently disagree. :)

zag, I know you like to cover your back with humour, just in case -- so, I'm just going to ignore any potential "humour" from you, for the moment and respond to this:

Quote:
zag:You're echoing Kevin I see. It's extraordinarily irrational of you. You mean, you mean. Stingy. If you didn't think I was creative, you wouldn't have expressed your desire to fuck me. :D


Leyla: One of the differences between you and I, philosophically speaking, is that you call that event an expression of desire and I call it a fleeting thought based on a comment you made prior to it. But, in the same vein as you, does this mean you have a repressed desire to fuck Kevin because, in actuality, I have been saying it for a while now.

Where have you been saying that Leyla? To yourself? And after so recently boasting of your having no need of such indulgence! More to the point, why would you say such a thing?

Leyla, you don't feel like a lover to me, I love you as a sister. Get over it.

suergaz why don't you just fuck the hell off?

I can't stand you, and I am sure Im not alone.

You aren't saying anything.

Zag,

In the midst of it with your whole self or what of it you perceive through your window?!

Hehehe… It is not a window, but a 3 meter wide full height sliding glass door opening to a 8 meter balcony, so I don’t leave any part of me behind, hehehe, and is there a ‘part’ the I will leave behind? I Am that I Am, Self.

You are free, and I cannot see where we inherently disagree. :)

May be not, but please allow me to point out.

Things may not just happen, but the universe itself, as far as it is possible for us to know, just happens, causes itself.

No, it is possible to know beyond ‘just happens’ and ‘causes itself’, and basically I think you actually know it. It is only a matter of perspective.

What we see as Universe ‘causes itself’ is from experiencing things from the perspective of being a thing. I know one might say it is not possible to think beyond that than from the perspective of being a thing, and that is true, however, it can be perfectly deduced and be known that the Universe itself could not have come into being, or caused itself, or just happen, because Universe is the mother of all happenings, that is, infinity of all happenings, and not happenings itself. Infinity cannot “happen” because that implies a point of time in space. Since Nothing can lie “outside” infinity, it could never have had a beginning, or happen to come into existence ever, nor will it ever end. Not a great example, but we do know that energy never dies, but transforms, so how could it have ever been born? It never had to “come” from “anywhere”, since there is no beyond to Infinity in any direction, unless one cannot actually comprehend Infinity, and what it means to him.

Basically the ‘causes itself’ thought begs the question as to what caused its self-causing? One will say Self, and what caused that, Self again, ad infinitum, but that is not true Infinity in my opinion, since it creates a linier mental direction, but the one that will bring an end to that question, and then experience a mental tranquility and peace in it’s Self. Mind you, this is only a part, there are many other things that need to come to an end before one lets go of even that, and live again.

I understand nothing at all as a 'god'.

Sure, that was for those that do, and in a way, you point to it by saying Universe “causes itself”, at least that is how most will understand it, where as I see that it could never have, and all seemingly present past and future exist Now in infinity, a.k.a., Universe, Existence, All that there is, Totality, etc., etc.,

.

zag wrote:

Leyla, you don't feel like a lover to me, I love you as a sister. Get over it.

Fair dinkum. Get over what, exactly? You think I feel rejected, or something??

I never intended to "feel" like a lover to you. I guess that makes me telepathic, since you got it!

I have a new definition, based on recent observations, for telepathy: the deluded notion that one person believes he knows what another is thinking or feeling when they are, in actuality, only projecting.

[Edit: spelling]

Oh, Leyla.

zagreus:
Things may not just happen, but the universe itself, as far as it is possible for us to know, just happens, causes itself.

Sapius: No, it is possible to know beyond ‘just happens’ and ‘causes itself’, and basically I think you actually know it. It is only a matter of perspective.

No, for all we know, infinity is happening. We don't know from where except itself.

What we see as Universe ‘causes itself’ is from experiencing things from the perspective of being a thing. I know one might say it is not possible to think beyond that than from the perspective of being a thing, and that is true, however, it can be perfectly deduced and be known that the Universe itself could not have come into being, or caused itself, or just happen, because Universe is the mother of all happenings, that is, infinity of all happenings, and not happenings itself.

Infinity is all happenings, for forever.

Infinity cannot “happen” because that implies a point of time in space.

No, it implies and more than implies all points.

Since Nothing can lie “outside” infinity, it could never have had a beginning, or happen to come into existence ever, nor will it ever end.

Which is not to say it is not happening, just because it has always been happening.

Not a great example, but we do know that energy never dies, but transforms, so how could it have ever been born?

That's not the point.

It never had to “come” from “anywhere”, since there is no beyond to Infinity in any direction, unless one cannot actually comprehend Infinity, and what it means to him.

Like I said, as far as we can know it is of itself.

Basically the ‘causes itself’ thought begs the question as to what caused its self-causing? One will say Self, and what caused that, Self again, ad infinitum, but that is not true Infinity in my opinion, since it creates a linier mental direction, but the one that will bring an end to that question, and then experience a mental tranquility and peace in it’s Self. Mind you, this is only a part, there are many other things that need to come to an end before one lets go of even that, and live again.

Any infinity is true infinity.

Quote: Zagreus:
I understand nothing at all as a 'god'.


Sapius:Sure, that was for those that do, and in a way, you point to it by saying Universe “causes itself”, at least that is how most will understand it, where as I see that it could never have, and all seemingly present past and future exist Now in infinity, a.k.a., Universe, Existence, All that there is, Totality, etc., etc.,

What you're saying here is that it cannot cause itself, because it causes itself infinitely.

And I'm saying that's why.

:D


Hey Prince is having his period. A moment of silence.

Leyla:

I have a new definition, based on recent observations, for telepath: the deluded notion that one person believes he knows what another is thiking or feeling when they are, in actuality, only projecting.

That's just a delusional person.

No, no, Steven -- don't waste your groaning on me! Keep it for the likes of zag: he's much more likely to value its lack of substance through creative reading -- what, you two being telepaths, n' all.

Really? So, are you deluded or a telepath, zag?

I'm neither Leyla. Don't be so peevish. I'm sure there must be things in life you can thrash me at. :D

No, answer the question and don't be such a coward. This is quite pertinent to philosophy, I think. Did you think I felt rejected?

Leyla Shen wrote:No, no, Steven -- don't waste your groaning on me! Keep it for the likes of zag: he's much more likely to value its lack of substance through creative reading -- what, you two being telepaths, n' all.

Zag's cool.

You're cool.

We're all cool.

All I'm asking, is for some god damn honesty from you.

I know you have it.

I've witnessed it.

It was beautiful.

You mean answer this new question? I did think that, and since you say that is not the case, I believe you, ok? :D

I'm not interested in being objectified by you, Steven.

I am here because I am interested in clarity of thought. How many times must I say that against your attempts to mortalise me in time and space for your own pleasure?

Sapius wrote:
and indeed allow ideas to be expressed without having a reluctant opponent in mind

Can David exist in the form that David exists, Teacher/Rescuer... without a 'reluctant opponent' to cajole, 'fix', persuade, bludgeon, mount a defence against, attack, enrol to his side, plead with, give up on, curse, admonish, insult, parody, lampoon, plot against...

hehe..

Perhaps existence is the 'tension point' between a pair of opposites..

David without someone to fix?

hehe

frank

As for you, zag, you are on drugs. I asked you the same question when I replied to your post the first time.

Fuck's sake.

I'm not interested in being objectified by you, Steven.

Okay. Then keep your forked-tongue out of my ear?

Don't play coy or dumb.

I am here because I am interested in clarity of thought. How many times must I say that against your attempts to mortalise me in time and space for your own pleasure?

What if your clarity of thought could be improved by "help" from another person?

The format and purpose of this forum.

Steven wrote:

What if your clarity of thought could be improved by "help" from another person?

It can, and has, and will again no doubt. And, on this forum. It's just that that person has never been and -- as far as I can tell so far -- will never be you. You lack the depth and clarity of thought I am intersted in. Hence, you cannot cope with forked tongues, which makes them all the more efficient for forking.

Leyla Shen wrote:Steven wrote:

What if your clarity of thought could be improved by "help" from another person?

It can, and has, and will again no doubt. And, on this forum. It's just that that person has never been and -- as far as I can tell so far -- will never be you. You lack the depth and clarity of thought I am intersted in. Hence, you cannot cope with forked tongues, which makes them all the more efficient for forking.

Leave me alone.

Keep your slither.

You're not interested in clarity of thought. You are a heap of lies.

As for you, zag, you are on drugs. I asked you the same question when I replied to your post the first time.

Fuck's sake.

Fair dinkum. Get over what, exactly? You think I feel rejected, or something??

Oh, sorry, you did too!

Leyla, don't pretend you don't like Steven!

Can David exist in the form that David exists, Teacher/Rescuer... without a 'reluctant opponent' to cajole, 'fix', persuade, bludgeon, mount a defense against, attack, enrol to his side, plead with, give up on, curse, admonish, insult, parody, lampoon, plot against...

You forgot BAN. He's banned me before, but I carry no grudges. In fact, I appreciate he's allowed me back. Furthermore, I really love these guys at the QVC, really I do. They have no idea......

I too appreciate that I was unbanned. Forgive me for being banned! :D I was young and impressionable!