GENIUS FORUMS

So Kevin goes by the name "Wanderer" over there? What happened to owning your own words by using your own name?

Regarding the closing question, GF is what it is. Yes, the main forum has started to get watered down with stuff that would otherwise have gone in Worldly Matters - but that's the way the admins saw fit to let it grow, or go.

Kelly Jones wrote:

Carl G wrote:It sounds, Kelly, like something you need do, leave for a few months. It sounds like you are describing your own situation and current needs, not that and those of the forum.

I admit that a degree of my own situation is seeping into my attitude about the current incarnation of the Genius Forum. However, I'm taking steps there, so the degree is not significant.

The Genius Forum truly isn't up to scratch. I'm glad to see there is a spirited rebellion against my proposal, but what sort of rebellion is it?

It's a rebellion by long-term druggies raising hell at losing their comfortable hang-out.

If you imply I am a druggie then you misunderstand my nature and my reasons for being here.

You, as much as any long time regular, should know that the posting here goes through cycles of heavy philosophical discussion and the appearance all sorts of spammers and mentally challenged folk who have Googled "truth" or "genius," providing an ever changing mix of content. What do expect from a public forum?

And yet this remains a viable and vibrant dojo, apparent especially if one learns to ride the waves of coherency and non-coherency and adherence to the stated values of the forum. You seem to have difficulty with this dojo dynamic -- this particular learning environment -- requiring it to be perhaps more 'serious' and 'straighforward' than it is, to reflect your own nature. And that is why you get fed up and leave for periods, I think, and why you suggest in this latest wave of weak posting that it be shut down.

I understand this ever-changing dynamic. Quiet and active periods are to be expected. But your suggestion that a viable learning environment doesn't have a straightforward, serious nature is false. The whole spirit of Infinite-minded learning is simple, direct, and honest. Without that, there is only aimless meandering.

Here you reveal the limitations of your own nature and thinking. Have you not heard of the indirect way of teaching. You probably do not appreciate koans. You probably do not understand the stories of the sudden stick over the head by the masters of old, or the sudden roar of laughter. You speak for the slow methodical dissertation method only, is that right? Not everyone learns best that way always.

It is not just my nature, but the nature of reasoning consciousness and the nature of the desire for perfection, to be straightforward, serious, and direct like an arrow flying true to its mark.

That is poetic but not necessarily true in all cases. You place such a premium on those attributes because they suit your particular nature. That is why I say you are projecting, which you acknowledge further on, and you defend it, as though your way is the only way, the right way. That is identifying in an egoic way, and it is why I call you an evangelist.

We should be asserting the spirit of the mind of enlightenment here, not making excuses.

I think it is you making the excuses. You are making excuses why this place should shut down, instead of asking yourself why it is everyone who is on the path is not like you.

In short, you are overreacting, and probably projecting your personal problems onto the forum.

I am glad that I am projecting my personal 'problems' and my nature onto the forum. It's my interest in the spiritual welfare of the members here that prompts me to react this way.

Projecting one's personal problems is not something to defend or be proud of, even if puts quotes around the word 'problems'. Whenever one gets defensive thinking one is right where others are concerned there is cause for concern about one's own thinking and emotions in the matter. That is a good time for self-reflection, to check and see if one has gotten up on one's high horse, by any chance, so to speak.

Carl G wrote:Kelly: It's a rebellion by long-term druggies raising hell at losing their comfortable hang-out.

Carl: If you imply I am a druggie

I'm not singling anyone out. It's a contagious mentality. Anyone who isn't a druggie is either dead, unconscious, or perfectly enlightened.

then you misunderstand my nature and my reasons for being here.

I'd bet all the money in the world that regular contributors enter the forum without any conscious, willed purpose at all. They drift in on the seas of emotional spontaneity, and a fickle desire for entertainment.

You probably do not understand the stories of the sudden stick over the head by the masters of old, or the sudden roar of laughter.

Koan-inquiry is simple, serious, and straightforward. The great, mind-opening joy of a shattered koan is the fruit of that serious-minded investigation.

You speak for the slow methodical dissertation method only, is that right? Not everyone learns best that way always.

I think the best method for most people is straightforward, and serious.

You place such a premium on those attributes because they suit your particular nature.

Again, the nature of reasoning is serious and straightforward. The means of shattering koans is straightforward and serious. The gateway to enlightenment is straightforward and serious. Consciousness itself is straightforward and serious.

And, since I have consciously constructed my nature, and altered my personality, to become more straightforward and serious, you are right that I am promoting my own nature here. As you are doing, but you imply you are not.

instead of asking yourself why it is everyone who is on the path is not like you.

It is because they are not on the path. If they were, they would be keen to abandon their attachments, and find the strongest poisons for the heart possible.

Whenever one gets defensive thinking one is right where others are concerned there is cause for concern about one's own thinking and emotions in the matter. That is a good time for self-reflection, to check and see if one has gotten up on one's high horse, by any chance, so to speak.

Thanks for your words, and example of self-reflection.

I consider my motives, and re-consider them. I even re-consider my motive to re-consider my motives.

I mean, on the one hand, I have people criticising me for attacking the self-approving slothfulness that this forum has sunken into, saying that I am projecting my serious, truthful, straightforward nature onto it. Then on the other hand, they criticise me for not being serious and truthful enough!

I think that people here have become lazy, and all too skilled at how to argue justifications for sloth. Is that anything to be proud of?

Kelly Jones wrote:What do other members think about this proposal?

Convenient:

Kelly Jones on Tue Feb 05, 2008 wrote:I wish to apologise for not dealing properly with my anger. I'm apologising to people on this board, because it's where I've spread the most disease. If I don't apologise, I think it'll be much harder for me to right things.

There's a great gulf between what I know is true, and what I habitually think, say, and do. It's driving me crazy. I'd just like to be human, not a bullied person or a bully. Yes, it's all very well to wish, but if one doesn't fix things, then it's all hot-air.

I'd like to recall my earlier promise to take a 12-month break from the forum. It's going to take me a lot longer than that, and I'm an impatient person. So we'll see how it goes.

Tomas: Kevin has his e-sangha buddhist that has set sail. Not many from here, are jumping ship and swimming to his ship.

Dan: I think Kevin's intention with that forum is to attract the Buddhistic crowd more specifically - to give them an alternative to what's on offer. I don't think there's any desire for posters here to migrate and start posting there. That would be, rather pointless, surely?

Depends, doesn't it, on their point in posting? Tomas mentioned a common view here: the purpose of the regulars here is to 'police newcomers', they being 'enlightened enough'. Not to put too fine a point on it, it's just not true. An incomplete understanding only confuses others.

I have a habit of thinking my faults greater than they truly are, and harder to overcome, Jason. It's a result of that 'something' that I wasn't offering to disclose in our recent correspondence, purely because it's my responsibility to deal with it, and not yours (just from happening to have more direct insight into the matter).

Other people have a way of MAGNIFYING my faults, when in fact I am more perfect, more holy, more widely read, and even have a 22% longer wang-dang than anyone here. This forum is a mirror for the heavenly exaltation of myself which I polish daily, and if y'all weren't so stupid you'd count your blessings when it comes to me.

Carl, how many times must I point this out to you?!? Write this down if you have to: Biblical Shamans, like myself, do not use ayahuasca, we use Soma, the Divine Mushroom of Immortality. We have a very snobbish attitude toward ayahuasca users and consider them neo-spiritual riff-raff. Mastering this idea is more important than mastering effect and affect.

Kelly, with all my love I must humbly point out that you are really screwed-up and, as of yet, you are not getting any better. You use about 35% of your brain when you could use far more. I can help you, I would help you, but you must learn to hush-up and take spiritual orders. I am completely superior to you. I am an original and a great mind, you are a ninny.

XXOO

.


-Kelly-
Tomas mentioned a common view here: the purpose of the regulars here is to 'police newcomers', they being 'enlightened enough'.

-tomas-
I said, "police fellow members".


Kelly: Just what sort of mental illness were you diagnosed with? Do you believe everything those psychiatric doctors have told you that you have?

Perhaps you need a med adjustment...



.

Tomas wrote:We (those that have remained "loyal" to Genius Forums) are enlightened enough to police our fellow members, and any newbies, spammers, that we toss a life preserver to. The rats are eventully located, and summarily dealt with.

Me: Tomas mentioned a common view here: the purpose of the regulars here is to 'police newcomers', they being 'enlightened enough'.

Tomas: I said, "police fellow members".

So you did, as well as newcomers.

Kelly: Just what sort of mental illness were you diagnosed with? Do you believe everything those psychiatric doctors have told you that you have? Perhaps you need a med adjustment....

Schizotypal personality disorder. No. And, no, as I'm happy to accept the false label, because I enjoy ironic humour and find it a nice little stimulus for further spiritual activism.

What was the point of those questions, though?

.



-Elizabeth Isabelle -
So Kevin goes by the name "Wanderer" over there? What happened to owning your own words by using your own name?

-tomas-
Yeah, also a bit disappointed that he decided to segregate off into his own little nook and cranny.

Perhaps he's off into the desert, recruiting "Charlie's Girls" (charles manson cult followers). He always seemed that way, to me anyway. The long hair, wild-eyed look about him.




-Elizabeth-
Regarding the closing question, GF is what it is. Yes, the main forum has started to get watered down with stuff that would otherwise have gone in Worldly Matters - but that's the way the admins saw fit to let it grow, or go.

-tomas-
Hmmm, you kinda look like Sharon Tate. Long hair, pretty smile, you'll fit right in! No need to bring knives.. they have plenty. You better PM Kelly, you have potential over there, at e-sangha that is :-/




.

.



-tomas earlier-
Kelly: Just what sort of mental illness were you diagnosed with?

-Kelly-
Schizotypal personality disorder.

What was the point of those questions, though?

-tomas-
For reasons unknown to me, you don't read too well what some of the 'regular people' say here. You misread and inject your own "read" (take) but misapply words as conjunctions instead of being a phrase with commas thus my meaning of something else altogether.

I visit hospitals, psych wards, old folks (nursing) homes, domestic violence shelters, ride with police, sheriff, highway patrol, soup kitchens, homeless shelters etc. because I like to see how the other half lives. It makes me a more-whole person .. not necessarily more enlightened.

And no better than them, I'm gonna die in the same manner they will .. stop breathing.

PS - We're in North Dakota till the 5th of October, then back to Cali.

It pushing 11 PM, time for beddy-bye.

See ya on the flip side.

Be well, Kelly.



.

What's with the obsession with death, Tomas? You've been going on about that frequently lately.

Yes, everything lives and dies. But the truth of enlightened understanding doesn't die, because it is in all things.

If you don't know that, then how can you help others, whether other members, or newcomers?

This is exactly what I'm trying to point to in this thread: this lack of ambition, or loss of hope in one's own spiritual cause, that justifies itself at every turn. It's not just you, Tomas, it's pervasive here. It's like a horrible tenant in the brain that needs to be evicted; or a clingy soul-devouring woman who doesn't understand your deeper values and intentions....


It ain't no use to sit and wonder why, babe
It don't matter, anyhow
An' it ain't no use to sit and wonder why, babe
If you don't know by now
When your rooster crows at the break of dawn
Look out your window and I'll be gone
You're the reason I'm trav'lin' on
Don't think twice, it's all right

It ain't no use in turnin' on your light, babe
That light I never knowed
An' it ain't no use in turnin' on your light, babe
I'm on the dark side of the road
Still I wish there was somethin' you would do or say
To try and make me change my mind and stay
We never did too much talkin' anyway
So don't think twice, it's all right

It ain't no use in callin' out my name, gal
Like you never did before
It ain't no use in callin' out my name, gal
I can't hear you any more
I'm a-thinkin' and a-wond'rin' all the way down the road
I once loved a woman, a child I'm told
I give her my heart but she wanted my soul
But don't think twice, it's all right

I'm walkin' down that long, lonesome road, babe
Where I'm bound, I can't tell
But goodbye's too good a word, gal
So I'll just say fare thee well
I ain't sayin' you treated me unkind
You could have done better but I don't mind
You just kinda wasted my precious time
But don't think twice, it's all right

Wow, Kelly, I'm impressed!! Your poetry is really improving!

Where is this Superman? Show him to us! Bring out this Superman, you corpse-like fool! If not, piss off, for we have better things to do, a show on telly that we don't want to miss, more entertaining discussions about - well, something or rather.

[One falls silent and looks on, thinking that these are not the ears that will hear. One moves on to another town.]

I think everyone, enlightened or not, should read what this Eminem, egotisitical blowhard had to say;

Eminem
Lose Yourself lyrics

Look, if you had, one shot, or one opportunity
To seize everything you ever wanted - one moment
Would you capture it? Or just let it slip?
Yo

His palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy
There's vomit on his sweater already, mom's spaghetti
He's nervous, but on the surface he looks calm and ready
To drop bombs, but he keeps on forgetting
What he wrote down, the whole crowd goes so loud
He opens his mouth, but the words won't come out
He's chokin, how? Everybody's jokin now
The clock's run out, time's up over, plow!
Snap back to reality, oh there goes gravity
Oh, there goes Rabbit, he choked
He's so mad, but he won't give up that
Easy, no
He won't have it, he knows his whole back's to these ropes
It don't matter, he's dope
He knows that, but he's broke
He's so stagnant that he knows
When he goes back to his mobile home, that's when it's
Back to the lab again yo
This whole rap shit
He better go capture this moment and hope it don't pass him

[Hook:]
You better lose yourself in the music, the moment
You own it, you better never let it go
You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow
This opportunity comes once in a lifetime yo

The soul's escaping, through this hole that is gaping
This world is mine for the taking
Make me king, as we move toward a, new world order
A normal life is borin, but super stardom's close to post mortem
It only grows harder, only grows hotter
He blows us all over these hoes is all on him
Coast to coast shows, he's know as the globetrotter
Lonely roads, God only knows
He's grown farther from home, he's no father
He goes home and barely knows his own daughter
But hold your nose cuz here goes the cold water
His hoes don't want him no mo', he's cold product
They moved on to the next schmo who flows
He nose dove and sold nada
So the soap opera is told and unfolds
I suppose it's old partna', but the beat goes on
Da da dum da dum da da

[Hook]

No more games, I'ma change what you call rage
Tear this mothafuckin roof off like two dogs caged
I was playin' in the beginning, the mood all changed
I been chewed up and spit out and booed off stage
But I kept rhymin' and stepwritin' the next cypher
Best believe somebody's payin' the pied piper
All the pain inside amplified by the fact
That I can't get by with my 9 to 5
And I can't provide the right type of life for my family
Cuz man, these goddamn food stamps don't buy diapers
And it's no movie, there's no Mekhi Phifer, this is my life
And these times are so hard, and it's getting even harder
Tryin to feed and water my seed, plus
Teeter totter caught up between being a father and a prima donna
Baby mama drama's screamin' on and
Too much for me to wanna
Stay in one spot, another day of monotony's
Gotten me to the point, I'm like a snail
I've got to formulate a plot or I end up in jail or shot
Success is my only mothafuckin option, failure's not
Mom, I love you, but this trailer's got to go
I cannot grow old in Salem's lot
So here I go, it's my shot.
Feet fail me not, this maybe the only opportunity that I got

[Hook]

You can do anything you set your mind to, man

Who's got the time to wade through his tedious rhymes.

I'll stick with Kelly's beautiful lyrical writing.

"You're the reason I'm trav'lin' on
Don't think twice, it's all right"

Beautiful. You should publish that.

Visions of Johanna

Desolation Row
____________________________________________________

Kelly declaims:

"This is exactly what I'm trying to point to in this thread: this lack of ambition, or loss of hope in one's own spiritual cause, that justifies itself at every turn. It's not just you, Tomas, it's pervasive here. It's like a horrible tenant in the brain that needs to be evicted; or a clingy soul-devouring woman who doesn't understand your deeper values and intentions...."

I haven't lost hope in my spiritual cause, in fact I am making daily progress: I came to this forum, I injected pure spiritual power, I delivered y'all from evil, I filled you with the True Spirit, and now we're marching---singing!---to Zion. So don't blame me if we've hit some doldrums. It's part of the process, Kelly.

Keep this in mind: If you were to control what part of people's consciousness is to get evicted from their brains, we'd wind up in a zombie-land. Also, a woman can't devour a soul, she just wants the heat that a powerful soul puts off. You just have to dole it out to her, achingly. If you understand this, you understand a great deal.

.



-Kelly-
What was the point of those questions, though?

-tomas-
You start a thread wanting to shut something down that you have no control over.

You use the term "druggie".

You yourself, have stated that you have a diagnosed mental illness .. do you control it with medications?

Jason has your "Apology" where you comment that you need a break from Genius Forum, but can't quite make the break from here. Seems you can-not make up your own mind on what to do.

I understand (but don't have) a female's monthly period the ebb and flow.. but have witnessed this from my girlfriend of 40 years, and three of my now-adult daughters. A lot of tip-toeing around when some of their cycles meld to unison :-\

Are you having an early change of life, or do you require a medicine adjustment?

Do you use the mental illness to get a freebie from the government for housing, food whatever disability to freeload off of the government taxpayer?

In essence, your "god" (shepherd) is the government and you shall not want.

The Lord's Prayer can be reversed to mean the government is your caretaker.

Stop playing games with yourself..


.



.

The move to close Genius Forum comes from Kelly's desire to make it better.

But it doesn't work like that. It would be like attending AA and saying at a meeting, "Since AA is devoted to helping people cope with alcohollism, and everyone here is still an alcoholic after attending all these meetings, I suggest closing this chapter."

No one forces anyone to "attend" GF. But if it closed, we would be forced not to. This is like saying none of us benefits from GF. If that were true, no one would stay here, and when they left, they would never come back. But that's not what happens. So it seems that even if it doesn't measure up to everyone's standards, it does fill a very real need.

Tomas wrote:-tomas-
Hmmm, you kinda look like Sharon Tate. Long hair, pretty smile, you'll fit right in! No need to bring knives.. they have plenty. You better PM Kelly, you have potential over there, at e-sangha that is :-/

The name has already been changed to i-sangha. Here from there:

Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:55 am
wall0645
Re: Welcome to i-Sangha - The Buddhist Community
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:49 am
Posts: 5
Is this going to end up being the new hang out for everyone? Looks pretty nice!

Thank you for making the site Wanderer, I hope this will be a place of peace and, as you said, realization :)

Hang out? Emoticons? Well, it's certainly got a different air to it than GF.

Sharon Tate, huh? Thanks for the warning. I did like her idea about tying leather shoestrings on her feet to get around the "no shoes" policy that many places have. I guess I should be careful where I step though, even at i-sangha.

.



-Elizabeth Isabelle-
The name has already been changed to i-sangha.

-tomas-
Oh, I know, been there a couple few times to monitor the situation and its progress :-|




-Elizabeth-
Is this going to end up being the new hang out for everyone? Looks pretty nice!

-tomas-
Go to the shopping mall: Fire Sale! Everything must go! (pretty flowers in the windows, elevator music, or 70s music) Any come-on to draw in the unconscious shopper in all of us.




-Elizabeth-
Thank you for making the site Wanderer, I hope this will be a place of peace and, as you said, realization :)

-tomas-
Like Dan (the Admin over there) said here: [paraphrase] It's not gonna draw many from Genius because you gotta want the Buddhist (whatever) search for touchy-feeley brand of "the real whatever".

I don't doubt Kevin's sincerity in all of this. He likes the nomadic lifestyle of Tasmania, suppose Kelly does too. I'm not one to question or browbeat them (that) their way is not the right way. Different strokes for different folks.




_Elizabeth-
Hang out? Emoticons? Well, it's certainly got a different air to it than GF.

-tomas-
When I first arrived here and eventually signed up (but not on), Kevin sent me a Private Message stating the protocol was I had to wear mini-bells on my ankles - well, that was just over the top!

I protested to Dan, and Kevin eventually backed off...

Well then, David caught wind of this and he PM'd me and ask if I'd settle for wearing orange socks when surfing Genius Forums! The girlfriend had an extra pair of orange booties laying around, so, well..




-Elizabeth
Sharon Tate, huh? Thanks for the warning. I did like her idea about tying leather shoestrings on her feet to get around the "no shoes" policy that many places have. I guess I should be careful where I step though, even at i-sangha.

-tomas-
It's e-sangha! -- shang-ra-la -or- shanghai

Anyways, Kevin and his merry followers of new-wave buddhism can do as they please (wave of the hand).


PS - I like most of what Dan is doing with his videos, good stuff.





.

Tomas wrote: -Elizabeth-
Is this going to end up being the new hang out for everyone? Looks pretty nice!

-tomas-
Go to the shopping mall: Fire Sale! Everything must go! (pretty flowers in the windows, elevator music, or 70s music) Any come-on to draw in the unconscious shopper in all of us.




-Elizabeth-
Thank you for making the site Wanderer, I hope this will be a place of peace and, as you said, realization :)

-tomas-
Like Dan (the Admin over there) said here: [paraphrase] It's not gonna draw many from Genius because you gotta want the Buddhist (whatever) search for touchy-feeley brand of "the real whatever".

I don't doubt Kevin's sincerity in all of this. He likes the nomadic lifestyle of Tasmania, suppose Kelly does too. I'm not one to question or browbeat them (that) their way is not the right way. Different strokes for different folks.

That's not my stuff, Tomas. I was quoting wall0645. I have not yet posted anything over there.

Kelly Jones wrote:It looks as though the Genius Forum has become a deadening venue, with a genius-strangling nature. (...)

Shutting the forum down, for a few months at least, would bring some relief to scattered minds, and reassert the spirit of enlightenment. It would encourage acts of will, and of fathoming one's own inner resources. A few months' sabbatical would do the trick. The forum could still be readable, just locked to posting. Spirited seekers of wisdom could probably use http://www.e-sangha.net, which is open to spiritually-attuned topics.

Well, I for one agree with Kelly for the most part here. Already during the closing of the Worldly Matters I suggested the same thing.

Where I differ now is the belief some kind of sabbatical will fundamentally change or refresh things. There are in my view a few other elements at work.

Although every discussion board has its cycles of sense and nonsense, activity and slumps, every forum also has its definite start, peak and end of its core reason of existence. This is a reality I've seen in the last ten years www-wide. The nature of the Internet and the conservations taking place on it has changed quite a lot. The flow has become faster, patience thinner, media richer and hosting possibilities endless and cheaper.

The Genius Forums might have outlived all other boards I know of but it doesn't mean it's immortal or has to be some never-ending process. It's in the nature of fixed places operated by the same folks to become stale, downtrodden and for philosophy settling is a danger - habitual thoughts and patterns could prevent addressing what needs to be addressed. Subtly the nature of a forum like this changes and might indeed become an enemy to its very ideals.

Some new members arriving here still can find what they need, some stimulant, but it seems to me time for all to move on, splinter and divide like a 21st century version of Osiris. People here are developing their own sites, blogs and forums and that's only natural and a good, unavoidable thing in my view. The whole idea of some 'QRS' project should disappear and genius on the internet should become an even more individualized, mixed, dispersed phenomenon, popping up in many places and through various media.

Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion...

No need to kill the forum just because "The QRS Philosophy" is a dead end as a "path to enlightenment," in blatent contradiction to what mystics of all eras and Traditions have always *known* as enlightenment.

The founders should announce that this forum will no longer be the instrument of indoctrination into the "QRS Philosophy" but actually, really, truly a forum for open and respectful "Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment."

And if they insist on retaining the specific foci:
" Truth, Courage, Honesty, Logic, Masculinity, Wisdom, Perfection", then a few more must be added, like "Transcendence" as a focus to balance "Logic" and "Femininity" to balance "Masculinity" ( if the gender issue *must* remain as a topic relative to Ultimate Reality" and "Enlightenment.") The good-ol-boys club condescending upon women as inferior is as far from the discussion of enlightenment as it gets.

That's an interesting way of looking at it, Diebert. There's a very interesting revival of metaphysical intellectualising on the net happening, much like a replicative plague of thinking. Compared to that sincere, forward-thinking, proactive culture, the Genius Forum is definitely on the back-foot.

I was not really surprised how defensively, and back-footedly, some people here responded to my proposal. It's true that it's hard to see a different perspective when you're in a stagnant or depressive place - and particularly if you've been there a while. I hope they can find a way to lift themselves out eventually.

Also, it's very true that the true philosopher cannot and doesn't cling and linger; he has to challenge himself, to grow. Holding on to a ritual or fixed impression or body of thought is a serious danger to him.

For myself, it's time to leave the Genius Forum for good. I find my energy is being drained by people who have no love of truth - how can one communicate to them who don't trust their own minds? They believe everything is false, which is foolish beyond belief. If only there was a genuine seed of honesty and courage in them, if only at some moment they would admit - "yes, I'm stagnating, and my thoughts are confused." Then there would be room for thinking, and more room for truth. But they keep stifling any poor spirit of ambition and desire for truth, til it starves into oblivion. Then they have the gall to blame others!

Really, they have lost trust in their own mind, and heckle others to see if they can find a role-model who will stick with them and show them how it is done. Perhaps others will have the patience for this process. I do not, not for people who are too old, and who are 'encumbering the earth'.

Just wanted to mention the individuals who have been most inspiring and helpful over the years of my involvement here. Most thanks to David, Kevin, and Dan, Rhett, and Sue. I've also been mentally stimulated by the contributions of Matt Gregory, Greg Shantz, Bryan McGilly, Diebert van Rhijn, Dave Toast, Dave Hodges, Shardrol, Marsha Faizi, Leyla Shan, Nick Treklis, and James Quirk. Apologies to a few others that I've forgotten.

Good luck to *everyone here*, regardless of who they are. May you all find yourselves in paradise today.


Kelly Jones