GENIUS FORUMS

I did not attend my husband's funeral. I don't think going or not going to a funeral signifies or de-signifies attachement.

Faizi

Sue wrote:

And what about the corpse; is his life “celebrated”? No way. What was once a complex person with both enemies and friends; is now thought by all to be a saint. His life is made a mockery of through the elimination of all that is now found “not nice” and the highlighting of traits that he had when he was a young boy. His whole life is boiled down to a colourless gruel fit to be consumed by those who ‘love’ him.

I have never seen this. I have had several close attachments die at a young age and I never witnessed anything quite like the spectacle you describe.

No one would have ever considered my friend who died eight years ago to have been saintly. She was abrasive, mouthy, opinionated, and harsh.

I was a little miffed with her when she died. I had been keeping her two little boys for days on end -- overnight, too -- while she worked. I strongly felt that the kids needed her and I told her so. I told her that she could not keep working the way she was, that it would kill her.

A few days later, she fell asleep behind the wheel on the interstate and ran under a truck and was decapitated.

Was she a saint? Hell, no. No one in his right mind could have thought of Kathy as a saint.

She was my close friend, warts and all.

My husband was not a saint. Had he not died, I may have left him once the kids were old enough to not be carried off easily to Pakistan. Faizi was a jealous nag. He nagged continuously. I once threw a chair at him to shut him up. He was contrary to an unbelievable point. If you wanted red, you only had to tell him black. He was a high-maintenance pain.

Chuck, despite having a lively intellect, was probably weak -- physically and emotionally.

I have seen a few grieving people -- teenagers and some Muslims -- who were hideous in their so called grief. Some people want to draw attention to themselves. They want to be seen as the MOST HEARTBROKEN ONE or THE ONE WHO IS TAKING IT THE HARDEST.

This sort of behavior should not be encouraged. One of the main reasons I did not attend my husband's funeral was due to the whirling dervishes. So many of the wailing assholes were people Faizi loathed. I felt the falseness of it was dishonorable.

I have no such worries about those who will attend my funeral. I am completely a saint and I expect the outpouring of genuine grief to be grand in the way of John Paul II on a somewhat smaller scale. I expect to have my body on display at Buchanan Town hall. I expect a parade through town with my body on a trailer pulled by a lawn mower. I expect to see people leaping into my gravesite -- sacrificing themselves because they can see no worth in continuing to live without my presence on earth. Who gave them sample medicine -- six months at a time -- when they could not afford it? Who came to their home when they could not rise from their bed to get to the doctor? Who drove them to the doctor when it was expedient for them to come? Who traveled twenty miles into deepest Arnold Valley to attend them on their death beds?

St. Marsha de Kirby-Faizi of Botetourt, that's who. She gave to the rich and she gave to the poor. All who came before her were her children -- even cops. Marsha de Kirby-Faizi refused no one.

When I die, I expect a great outpouring of grief.

I certainly expect this forum to pay tribute to St. Marsha. I would be utterly pissed off if there were no tributes to Faizi on this forum at my death.

I mean, damn.

Faizi

I met a grieving old man today. His wife died about ten days ago so you can definitely say that he is still in shock. I think grief is shock. It is shock that lasts about a year.

I felt sorry for him. He is eighty years old. Personally, I think marriage stinks but, when you have lived with someone for more than fifty years, attachment does not begin to describe the relationship. It is kind of like flesh into flesh, you are so bound.

He is a very stoic old man; not one to wear his emotions on his sleeve; not a slimy griever. Tears came out when I said that I will always think of Joeanna in Aruba because she loved going there.

Her death was sudden and unexpected.

I hope that he will come out of it in about a year.

I do not see him as ugly and all that. He is not faking or looking for sympathy. He is in shock.

Faizi

Leyla wrote:
frank, you demonstrate the depth of a toenail.

Sheesh Leyla...your 'petticoat propensity' to complicate matters has now burdened me with a 'depth of meaning' that is simply a massive overstatement...

frank

Poor thing -- burdened with a massive overstatement. How sad. How pitiful.

Poor Frank.

How sad for him to have to engage in discussion with Leyla when one can easily see that he is not enjoying it.

Poor, poor Frank.

Sob.

To think that I have been called a drama queen. I don't hold a candle.

Poor, poor Frank. Alas, poor Frank. How he rues being over burdened with Leyla. How he is suffering.

Faizi

It isn't so much the burden . . . as it is the c o n s t a n t uighsajkbayhg.

I'm sure you can relate.

I think I got it.

Faizi

Actually, you'd be surprised.

I think I got it.

Faizi

You think you got it or you got it?

goofy

Frank,

Sapius wrote: Thanks for the script. I understand and acknowledge your part in this drama too.

Frank wrote: Well done Sapius.. now you've caught up to Nietschke...you are now up to speed with the great philosophers.

Thanks, but I don’t consider you to be up to speed irrelevant of you knowing what you know. For you would then strictly be an observer without repeatedly describing what you actually know. But then again, I know you cannot help it.

Nature is like a………… and so on and so forth………

I said, I understand and acknowledge your part, so all you should do is actually walk along and find someone else, because then you have nothing different to say to me. Please enjoy the Awe, which BTW multiplies a million folds by knowingly participating in the Drama that one knows it for what it is. But may be you need to keep reminding it to your self until it actually sinks in, hence the repeated scripting to others.

All the best...

.

Sapius wrote:
For you would then strictly be an observer without repeatedly describing what you actually know. But then again, I know you cannot help it.

Is it a Rule of Yours?

That I must be 'strictly an Observer'..

That I must be Drama Free.

What happened to Freedom?

Can't I have some Fun too?

free frank from Sapius' rules!

go frank

frank wrote:

Sapius wrote:
For you would then strictly be an observer without repeatedly describing what you actually know. But then again, I know you cannot help it.

Is it a Rule of Yours?

That I must be 'strictly an Observer'..

That I must be Drama Free.

What happened to Freedom?

Can't I have some Fun too?

free frank from Sapius' rules!

go frank

Is that all you got from what I said?

Being just an observer should actually BE your part in my opinion, since 'drama and playing a part is all that there is to it' and you KNOW it accordingly, unless you don't understand what you are saying, but I don't see any conscious participation, because you don't seem to go a step beyond in participation except that of acceptance of just being a part and repeatedly emphasizing it. Your part doesn't seem to go beyond your repetitiveness in emphasizing that it is indeed just playing parts, so what use is it telling the same people again and agian. Find some new ones and keep playing your part.

It is your repetitiveness like a broken record which tells me that observation should help you best, not scripting your part, but that I know you cannot help, because unfortunately for a seemingly intelligent person, repeated-ness seem to have been incorporated in your part.

So enjoy your part, and leave the Awe to me. :)

.

frank dramatised:

Sheesh Leyla...your 'petticoat propensity' to complicate matters has now burdened me with a 'depth of meaning' that is simply a massive overstatement...

Oh, "really"? Like, "wow," man...

Steven uttered with perfect clarity:

It isn't so much the burden . . . as it is the c o n s t a n t uighsajkbayhg.

Well, hell. Why didn't you just say so in the first place. All this time and I thought you were saying it's me.

"Typography, a forgotten art..."

My browser has "constant" reduced in size.

frank wrote:Nature is like a musical expression...turning out forms...giraffes giraffe, dogs dog, piggies pig, birdies bird, people people...

the condition of people is to Make Meaning...it's caused.

Do you think that humans sole characteristic is meaning making? Humans are capable of doing much more than just meaning making.

There REALLY is nothing the matter except if you think there is or what meaning you give to it...

Do you think you've stepped outside of the meaning making? Why is your particular meaning making - that the condition of humans is meaning making - any more true than someone whose meaning making decrees that humans condition is not about meaning making? What makes your little drama, your little piece of meaning making, so universal?

OK...let's have a look at a feature of the Drama...the Drama has 3 Main Roles happening...Rescuer/Perpetrator/Victim.

If you read thru the posts on this board you can see the Roles being played out...

What role do you think you're playing by coming here and telling us about these roles and dramas?

Jason, I think you misunderstand.

To Frank: Do you think you've stepped outside of the meaning making?

No, he does not consider himself outside of it.

What role do you think you're (Frank) playing by coming here and telling us about these roles and dramas?

Exactly that one, of course.

However, what one has to realize is that he has to go beyond that understanding without forgetting it for a minute. And that can be seen when he once expresses his core understandings, and then is able to change his act, that is, consciously participate in everything just as he would rationally do in real life. That wouldn’t mount to changing his part which is his core, but just the act.

This in my opinion would be far more Awesome, since he would be knowingly, with full awareness, partake in the drama and would be in a position to take up any act without having any false beliefs at his core. That is, a highly rational man now free to take up any act without being chained down due to irrationality.

Frankly, Frank's part, which I consider an act, as it stands seems far more Awful than Awe-full. :)

.

Sapius wrote:
Frankly, Frank's part, which I consider an act, as it stands seems far more Awful than Awe-full. :)

That's cute Sapius...
You've carved yourself out an Act in a Drama for yourself to Live thru'...

What will we call it?

Drama Critic?

I see you've handed out 'bouquets' on the EI Thread to Cory & Rizz...
Now the 'brickbats' go to frank..

It's more like a Judge on a TV Talent Show....'New Faces'.

The Acts 'perform' under the steady gaze of the 'experienced' Judge...Sapius..and are awarded a mark by him...

This Years Oscar goes to Sapius and he would like to thank his Mother...

frank

I don't think Jason got it wrong in the least.

A lot of drama.

Faizi

Silence is golden. Someone has to crack the crypt and let that out.

Sue wrote:
And what about the corpse; is his life “celebrated”? No way. What was once a complex person with both enemies and friends; is now thought by all to be a saint. His life is made a mockery of through the elimination of all that is now found “not nice” and the highlighting of traits that he had when he was a young boy. His whole life is boiled down to a colourless gruel fit to be consumed by those who ‘love’ him.

Marsha wrote:
I have never seen this. I have had several close attachments die at a young age and I never witnessed anything quite like the spectacle you describe.

No one would have ever considered my friend (Kathy) who died eight years ago to have been saintly. She was abrasive, mouthy, opinionated, and harsh.

I was a little miffed with her when she died. I had been keeping her two little boys for days on end -- overnight, too -- while she worked. I strongly felt that the kids needed her and I told her so. I told her that she could not keep working the way she was, that it would kill her.

Marsha,

In death, your friend Kathy can still be “abrasive, mouthy, opinionated, and harsh” if that is the way you choose to remember her. I’m sure that Kathy will also be remembered by some as being gentle, open and kind – those being the characteristics that they feel best describe who she was. These memories are only impressions that you and others have of Kathy, and not Kathy herself. If she had a hundred close relationships during her life, apart from some over-lapping, those hundred people all knew a different ‘Kathy’. The reason for this is that people see and understand the world through their emotional attachments and no two people have the same mix of emotions. For example: Kathy was remembered by you (Marsha) as being “abrasive, mouthy, opinionated, and harsh” – all characteristics you obviously find interesting and endearing – and which you are therefore attached to. If Kathy had been a Stepford Wife clone you more than likely would have found her a bore, and had nothing to do with her. The people we attach ourselves to are those that fulfill one or more of our emotional needs – and even dead people can do this for us.

Each person remembers the deceased as they desire to, in this way the dead become canonized by each of the living. You loved Kathy at her death because of her feisty spirit, but had she continued to live you might have grown tired of helping her out with her kids, and ended the relationship thinking her a “manipulating user”. If she then died, you more than likely wouldn’t feel too sad about her passing, perhaps only remembering what a “cow” she had been.

No matter how complex a person is, or was, we only ever want to know that part of them that satisfies our own needs. The dead are very good at providing this for us because, unlike living people, they never change. So we can enjoy our fantasies about them, without having to worry about them walking into the room and saying something to make us feel differently towards them.

* * *

Have you seen the movie “Truly Madly Deeply”? It is a story about grief. In it, a woman is left depressed and despairing after her partner dies. Her longing for him grows until she is incapable of functioning. Her misery is so extreme that he does return to her in ‘touchable ghost’ form. She is greatly relieved, though he does present a few problems by his return, but nothing compared to not having him at all.

Being a ghost, his ‘life’ is quite limited: he stays at home, central heating at its highest, ghost buddies asked over to watch videos night and day, arguing with her, and them, over petty concerns, and basically moping around. Because of this, she begins to slowly ‘let go’ of him. She meets another man and begins a relationship with him. Her ghost partner is a bit jealous, but he knows that this is what must happen, as he cannot share in her life the same way a living person can. Her love for him retreats as her love for the new man grows. He leaves, and she continues on with her life. She still has warm memories of him, but is now focused more on her future and less on her past.

* * *

This movie clearly shows what I’ve been talking about on this thread: that people use other people to satisfy their own needs and desires with no care or consideration for anyone else except themselves.

Sue

Frank, you're beautiful, man. I think I come here to see what you will say next.

As for roles one can play - look at a Tarot deck of cards. That is a very good outline of all the roles you can audition for!

It reminds me of another of my favorite albums - Jethro Tull's 'Passion PLAY.'

Nice.

frank wrote:

Sapius wrote:
Frankly, Frank's part, which I consider an act, as it stands seems far more Awful than Awe-full. :)

That's cute Sapius...
You've carved yourself out an Act in a Drama for yourself to Live thru'...

What will we call it?

Drama Critic?

I see you've handed out 'bouquets' on the EI Thread to Cory & Rizz...
Now the 'brickbats' go to frank..

It's more like a Judge on a TV Talent Show....'New Faces'.

The Acts 'perform' under the steady gaze of the 'experienced' Judge...Sapius..and are awarded a mark by him...

This Years Oscar goes to Sapius and he would like to thank his Mother...

frank

I'm glad you liked it, although...

It is empty and meaningless
THAT it is empty and meaningless

.

MKFaizi wrote:I don't think Jason got it wrong in the least.

His questions do suggest so.

A lot of drama.

In the truest sense of the word, yes it is.

.

suergaz wrote:Silence is golden.

I'm an expert in that field, but keep in mind there are others reading these pages. :)

Sapius wrote:
I'm glad you liked it, although...

It is empty and meaningless
THAT it is empty and meaningless

I like Sapius.

unwise wrote:
Frank, you're beautiful, man. I think I come here to see what you will say next.

It's a mutual thing...we're doin' all right...affirming Life.

unwise wrote:
As for roles one can play - look at a Tarot deck of cards. That is a very good outline of all the roles you can audition for!

When I'm working on a Dream I had and I separate the Archetypes and try and spot the 'sense' of it...or 'meaning' of it...after I've spent a good time immersed in the feeling of the Dream, like an hour...I'll go shuffle a Tarot Deck and 'pull' a card...it's uncanny how that 'pulled' card Acts on the process...how new doors of perception fly open...sometimes you can see forever...

frank