GENIUS FORUMS

Have you ever observed life as something different then everday?

I have had experiences where I seem to be completely aware of everything going on around me, not as overload, but as if everything is one cognitive mass explaining something to me. I am a fan of the term & definition of Gaia, and believe that we all have some connection, of course you can't really deny it - you're breathing in Nostradamus's, DaVinci's, and even Jesus Christ's breathe from a millenia ago nearly every day, if not every breath. I find it fascinating that particular days I find myself completely aware that I am a relative to all nature, and come to grips with how small our planet can be.

I wonder how often another person sees this? Do you ever feel as if hightened awareness, but not only that, but as if you are perceiving the world differently?

A few days out of the year I will have such an astounding understanding of what is going on, I feel as if I may speak to everyone for pleasent conversation, as if you can read every person like a book - their body language telling the story of a decade or two of struggles, love, and regret. I see a building not as a restraunt, but as brick forged from an oven from long time passed, taken from the earth so families, friends, and lovers may speak across a wood panel as they enjoy the euphoria of good food.

Does this not happen to you?

I wonder sometimes if we are not all subconsciously aware to some degree of another's thoughts simply by eye contact, body language, and non-verbal comm. I seem to have this quite strongly at times, while at other's I'm simply immersed in voice, and words.

Do you have experience?

Just located this after walking into the other room - was greeted with your explanation afterwards (one degree of enlightenment) - theme of the day is "we work."

We're all connected through Tesla's tele.

IJesusChrist wrote:Have you ever observed life as something different then everday?

I have had experiences where I seem to be completely aware of everything going on around me, not as overload, but as if everything is one cognitive mass explaining something to me. I am a fan of the term & definition of Gaia, and believe that we all have some connection, of course you can't really deny it - you're breathing in Nostradamus's, DaVinci's, and even Jesus Christ's breathe from a millenia ago nearly every day, if not every breath. I find it fascinating that particular days I find myself completely aware that I am a relative to all nature, and come to grips with how small our planet can be.

I wonder how often another person sees this? Do you ever feel as if hightened awareness, but not only that, but as if you are perceiving the world differently?

A few days out of the year I will have such an astounding understanding of what is going on, I feel as if I may speak to everyone for pleasent conversation, as if you can read every person like a book - their body language telling the story of a decade or two of struggles, love, and regret. I see a building not as a restraunt, but as brick forged from an oven from long time passed, taken from the earth so families, friends, and lovers may speak across a wood panel as they enjoy the euphoria of good food.

Does this not happen to you?

I wonder sometimes if we are not all subconsciously aware to some degree of another's thoughts simply by eye contact, body language, and non-verbal comm. I seem to have this quite strongly at times, while at other's I'm simply immersed in voice, and words.

Do you have experience?

These are all good experiences and insights. The general thrust of them pretty much aligns with what this forum is all about.

I tend to classify the experiences you describe as "altered states". There are countless different kinds of altered states - from the most banal to the most profound - but they all feature an altering of one's normal perception in some manner. Perceptions can become more vivid, the normal sense of time can fall away, one can see into the deeper connections between things (such as what happened in your case), greater psychological insight can occur, a sense of the mystical oneness of everything can arise, etc. They are always very interesting. I'm sure most people here on the forum are familiar with them.

From a philosophical point of view, having the sort of mind that can experience these altered states (in the absence of drugs) is very important, if not essential. Being able to transport the mind out of it habitual pathways greatly helps in the questioning and challenging of convention, and indicates that it has the capacity to lead a greater, more interesting form of existence.

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Unfortunately, the actual "experience" of enlightenment is horribly boring and frightening from the perspective of a normal person. Enlightenment is so ordinary, that the ordinariness of normal/worldly life seems like heaven.

Unity Attained:
Who dares to equal him
Who falls into neither being nor non-being!
All men want to leave
The current of ordinary life,
But he, after all, comes back
To sit among the coals and ashes.

I didn't like my existance in constant enlightenment - I don't think we are meant to live within it.

I attempted to dumb myself down. It worked rather nicely - now I'm normal and can relate to people sometimes.

... but really.

IJesusChrist wrote:Does this not happen to you?
I wonder sometimes if we are not all subconsciously aware to some degree of another's thoughts simply by eye contact, body language, and non-verbal comm. I seem to have this quite strongly at times, while at other's I'm simply immersed in voice, and words. Do you have experience?

It happens to most people to some degree, this feeling of unity in consciousness, but there is no basis for it in reality. An ignorant/deluded person does not have access to an enlightened mind, therefore they may have at best, a twenty five percent comprehension of reality through neural connections with others. If this connection was much higher and inherent in the human race, it would have an entirely different history. Religion never would have arisen, for example.

I would say you are for the most part immersed in the voice and words part, which includes body language, eyes and other forms of communication. All aspects of what I call the anthropomorphic lens, and no matter how wide it seems, it's still incredibly myopic, compared to an objective view of reality.

IJesusChrist wrote:I didn't like my existance in constant enlightenment - I don't think we are meant to live within it.

I attempted to dumb myself down. It worked rather nicely - now I'm normal and can relate to people sometimes.

... but really.

Hey, don't get ahead of yourself. These altered states aren't really expressions of enlightenment. Some of them, a small fraction of them, can hint at the nature of enlightenment, but in truth, enlightenment is a different kettle of fish altogether.

If we compare the process of becoming enlightened to a bird breaking out of its egg and flying away into the sky, then altered states (the more profound kind) are like the first glimmers of the great external reality which sometime peek through the chinks in the egg's outer shell. Altered states occur when the mind is still thoroughly spellbound by conventional reality and yet is occasionally able to break out of it, to some extent, for a short period of time.

The enlightened person, on the other hand, is like the fully-grown bird flying around freely in the sky. He is as far beyond altered states as he is ordinary consciousness. And he misses neither.

Your dislike of these altered states, when they become too prolonged, is an egotistical reaction. Understandable, in many ways, but still egotistical nonetheless. After all, the ego normally doesn't enjoy contemplating its own death too much.....

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For me.. complete awareness would be to know so much about yourself that you could literally alter your own state. For example to know your DNA so well that you could tell yourself to alter it, to know your bones so well that you could tell yourself to fix your broken leg, to know your vision so well that you could tell yourself to see more clearly, to know your hair so well that you could tell yourself not to go grey, to know the ageing process so well that you could tell yourself not to age, or even to get younger. The nature of our bodies depends on a set of rules created by the overall leadership of our subconscious hive of entities. Maybe if Jesus really did exist, and could walk on water it would require control of the entire hive. The Queen bee.

Maybe that's the goal of evolution.

David Quinn wrote:

IJesusChrist wrote:I didn't like my existance in constant enlightenment - I don't think we are meant to live within it.

I attempted to dumb myself down. It worked rather nicely - now I'm normal and can relate to people sometimes.

... but really.

Hey, don't get ahead of yourself. These altered states aren't really expressions of enlightenment. Some of them, a small fraction of them, can hint at the nature of enlightenment, but in truth, enlightenment is a different kettle of fish altogether.

If we compare the process of becoming enlightened to a bird breaking out of its egg and flying away into the sky, then altered states (the more profound kind) are like the first glimmers of the great external reality which sometime peek through the chinks in the egg's outer shell. Altered states occur when the mind is still thoroughly spellbound by conventional reality and yet is occasionally able to break out of it, to some extent, for a short period of time.

The enlightened person, on the other hand, is like the fully-grown bird flying around freely in the sky. He is as far beyond altered states as he is ordinary consciousness. And he misses neither.

Your dislike of these altered states, when they become too prolonged, is an egotistical reaction. Understandable, in many ways, but still egotistical nonetheless. After all, the ego normally doesn't enjoy contemplating its own death too much.....

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I suppose it could have been an egotistical reaction as it was the years from 16 to 18 that this happened almost on a daily basis. I enjoy it much more now - however it is less common. I found that I realized alot, and can clearly hear the words in my head at times of "No man should ever know this, no man need ever see this way."

Ahh... the awkward years.

I would say that enlightenment is the ability to not only cope, but to positively use these altered states for awareness and understanding. These may be the tools to higher enlightenment, as well as maybe the initial curiousity & push to go forward.

Pinco, thats great. I do believe that evolution is going somewhere, but argue that with any evolutionist or biologist and they will beg to differ. To have cognition drive evolution rather than environment... Where cognition is just an analysis of environment..

dejavu wrote:Where is one more godless than I? Where? Is this egoism? This is honest inquiry!

Careful now, don't get too intoxicated in your worship of Nietzsche ....

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Maybe there is evidence of our mental control of our own nature. Have you ever noticed how crazy people actually look crazy? Why would they look different to everyone else? I suppose that the Mongol is an obvious example, but there is this crazy eye look, or unshaven crankiness, or furrowed brow. I can even see it partly in David Icke. Do we have some control of the way that we look? I have also seen Paranoid Schizophrenics change their face according to what mood they are in, it's weird.

Pincho Paxton wrote:Maybe there is evidence of our mental control of our own nature. Have you ever noticed how crazy people actually look crazy? Why would they look different to everyone else? I suppose that the Mongol is an obvious example, but there is this crazy eye look, or unshaven crankiness, or furrowed brow. I can even see it partly in David Icke. Do we have some control of the way that we look? I have also seen Paranoid Schizophrenics change their face according to what mood they are in, it's weird.

Your avatar and Nick Nolte's are similar > http://z.about.com/d/crime/1/0/l/7/noltenick.jpg

Tomas wrote:

Pincho Paxton wrote:Maybe there is evidence of our mental control of our own nature. Have you ever noticed how crazy people actually look crazy? Why would they look different to everyone else? I suppose that the Mongol is an obvious example, but there is this crazy eye look, or unshaven crankiness, or furrowed brow. I can even see it partly in David Icke. Do we have some control of the way that we look? I have also seen Paranoid Schizophrenics change their face according to what mood they are in, it's weird.

Your avatar and Nick Nolte's are similar > http://z.about.com/d/crime/1/0/l/7/noltenick.jpg

Lol.. not anymore!

Pincho Paxton wrote:

Tomas wrote:

Pincho Paxton wrote:Maybe there is evidence of our mental control of our own nature. Have you ever noticed how crazy people actually look crazy? Why would they look different to everyone else? I suppose that the Mongol is an obvious example, but there is this crazy eye look, or unshaven crankiness, or furrowed brow. I can even see it partly in David Icke. Do we have some control of the way that we look? I have also seen Paranoid Schizophrenics change their face according to what mood they are in, it's weird.

Your avatar and Nick Nolte's are similar > http://z.about.com/d/crime/1/0/l/7/noltenick.jpg

Lol.. not anymore!

Yes, now that is you :-)

On a serious note: Physical sciences > http://www.crystalinks.com/physmet.html

i was most enlightened the moment i was born, the rest has gone downhill. i believe enlightenment to be the gain of the ultimate knowledge by use of absolute ignorance. approach all things without a natural bias.

Yes, I suppose the sheer ignorance of one's imprisonment inside the egg can give one a feeling of feedom and empty space. Doesn't last very long, though....

Enlightenment is the innocence and freedom of a child combined with the intelligence and knowledge of a genius.

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David Quinn wrote:

dejavu wrote:Where is one more godless than I? Where? Is this egoism? This is honest inquiry!

Careful now, don't get too intoxicated in your worship of Nietzsche ....

-

It's notable that the parts of Nietzsche's works that people praise the most are the parts where he was most shallow.

Slay your ego and you are a baby with knowledge that does not exist. You will realize your connections to reality are a figments of your self, as if floating in a void. Emptiness and lonliness for you, if you so choose, or an infinite possibility for escape, surrender, and discovery.

Or just watch TV.

David Quinn wrote:Yes, I suppose the sheer ignorance of one's imprisonment inside the egg can give one a feeling of feedom and empty space. Doesn't last very long, though....

Enlightenment is the innocence and freedom of a child combined with the intelligence and knowledge of a genius.

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let's go with the 'knowledge is power' idea here. if one attains power they cannot be considered truly innocent. whether it be the use of this power, or the non-use of this power, either way innocence is nullified. true innocence can only be achieved through ignorance.

Gurrb wrote:let's go with the 'knowledge is power' idea here. if one attains power they cannot be considered truly innocent. whether it be the use of this power, or the non-use of this power, either way innocence is nullified. true innocence can only be achieved through ignorance.

It can also be achieved through sheer wisdom. It can emerge in either extreme.

When a person's understanding becomes so powerful and deep, such that he sees through the very illusion of his own existence, he enters into an innocence which is very bit as pure as that of the ignorant infant. He sees that his every thought and action is not really "his" thoughts and actions, but rather the causal workings of Nature being played out in his body and brain, just like everywhere else. He sees that "he" is not really there, and never has been. Always, and in every moment, it is Nature which does all.

In the end, all of us are perfectly innocent and utterly blameless in everything that we do, but very few realize this because of the difficulties involved in breaking the spell of the self-illusion.

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David Quinn wrote:

Gurrb wrote:let's go with the 'knowledge is power' idea here. if one attains power they cannot be considered truly innocent. whether it be the use of this power, or the non-use of this power, either way innocence is nullified. true innocence can only be achieved through ignorance.

It can also be achieved through sheer wisdom. It can emerge in either extreme.

When a person's understanding becomes so powerful and deep, such that he sees through the very illusion of his own existence, he enters into an innocence which is very bit as pure as that of the ignorant infant. He sees that his every thought and action is not really "his" thoughts and actions, but rather the causal workings of Nature being played out in his body and brain, just like everywhere else. He sees that "he" is not really there, and never has been. Always, and in every moment, it is Nature which does all.

In the end, all of us are perfectly innocent and utterly blameless in everything that we do, but very few realize this because of the difficulties involved in breaking the spell of the self-illusion.

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That sounds more like complete unawareness.

David Quinn wrote:

Gurrb wrote:let's go with the 'knowledge is power' idea here. if one attains power they cannot be considered truly innocent. whether it be the use of this power, or the non-use of this power, either way innocence is nullified. true innocence can only be achieved through ignorance.

It can also be achieved through sheer wisdom. It can emerge in either extreme.

When a person's understanding becomes so powerful and deep, such that he sees through the very illusion of his own existence, he enters into an innocence which is very bit as pure as that of the ignorant infant. He sees that his every thought and action is not really "his" thoughts and actions, but rather the causal workings of Nature being played out in his body and brain, just like everywhere else. He sees that "he" is not really there, and never has been. Always, and in every moment, it is Nature which does all.

In the end, all of us are perfectly innocent and utterly blameless in everything that we do, but very few realize this because of the difficulties involved in breaking the spell of the self-illusion.

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Are you really comparing an infant to great intelligence?

An infant is a blank slate, with nothing but sheer reflexes and instincts. A grown person with great intelligence that overlaps his sheer existance is not quite the same at all.

An infant is completely aware in that (actually nobody knows this for sure) it does not filter out any type of information from the external world - it sees all. That may possibly be why we don't have memories from that age, simply because like that of a computer, the greater the detail of the video, the more memory it takes up, i.e. remembering something as a child for 5 minutes may be as great a claim to neural real estate as an entire day or so of adult memories.

IJesusChrist wrote:

David Quinn wrote: When a person's understanding becomes so powerful and deep, such that he sees through the very illusion of his own existence, he enters into an innocence which is very bit as pure as that of the ignorant infant. He sees that his every thought and action is not really "his" thoughts and actions, but rather the causal workings of Nature being played out in his body and brain, just like everywhere else. He sees that "he" is not really there, and never has been. Always, and in every moment, it is Nature which does all.

In the end, all of us are perfectly innocent and utterly blameless in everything that we do, but very few realize this because of the difficulties involved in breaking the spell of the self-illusion.

Are you really comparing an infant to great intelligence?

I was comparing the innocence of the infant to the innocence of the enlightened sage. Both of them completely lack self-consciousness - the former because he is too unconscious to know about the self, and the latter because he is too conscious to believe in it.

An infant is a blank slate, with nothing but sheer reflexes and instincts. A grown person with great intelligence that overlaps his sheer existance is not quite the same at all.

There is a big difference in that the enlightened sage is the master of his own mind, being far too conscious to be deceived by any of its illusions. But innocence-wise, they are exactly the same.

An infant is completely aware in that (actually nobody knows this for sure) it does not filter out any type of information from the external world - it sees all.

That's a rather romantic notion, I think, and doesn't stack up against the reality that the infant's perceptual world is vastly restricted by the limitations of its human senses, just as we are, and also by its lack of conceptual ability to make any sense of it.

That may possibly be why we don't have memories from that age, simply because like that of a computer, the greater the detail of the video, the more memory it takes up, i.e. remembering something as a child for 5 minutes may be as great a claim to neural real estate as an entire day or so of adult memories.

Maybe, but I believe it's primarily due to the inability of the infant to reason abstractly and thus it hasn't yet constructed a "self" upon which to build a sense of identity and with it a coherent chain of memories.

In other words, the impressions, understandings and memories that are fomed each day still remain too disconnected.

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