Suffering Revisited

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Leyla Shen
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Leyla Shen »

Dennis wrote:
emptiness is an absence of thought.
an absence of meaning.
This is certainly true. Hence, we have, on the one hand, things that have never had a thought and therefore grasped meaning, and things that have. But what you are attempting to point to (in questionable way) outside of the popular glib repetition of Buddhist jargon posing as philosophy from our resident enlightened buddhas, meets the criteria of fully realised “non-attachment” (encompassing all of the skandhas) since it necessarily follows that:
you provide the meaning.
...no meaning is possible without thought.

Therefore:
a tool.
the theory of anti-theory.
a description of the way things are. Useful.
appeasement of a disposition toward theorising thoughtlessly.

hence, peaceful in possibility.
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Leyla Shen »

Nietzsche:
Or to express my theme even more simply: there is a degree of sleeplesness, of rumination, of the historical sense, which is harmful and ultimately fatal to the living thing, whether this living thing be man or a people or a culture.
I love Nietzsche.

He is talking about the human who thinks himself far superior to the cow to which he compares himself, and yet never surpasses his own cowness...

(:
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Cahoot
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Cahoot »

And did your true love consider himself far superior to the deluded cowboy?
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Leyla Shen »

You haven't read Thus Spake Zarathustra, have you?

Plenty of commentary on deluded cowboy action in that.
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Cahoot »

Funny. I had the feeling things might be different. A bit of a let-loose. Straight question, straight answer. An answer of yes, or an answer of no.

The answer of yes would establish that like most common folk, Nietzsche indulged in self-cherishing, and was thus from the Buddhist perspective as deluded as the cowboy.

The answer of no has been covered, e.g., his personal limitations in knowledge projected not only upon the totality of humanity, but upon unsuspecting bovines.
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Dennis Mahar »

...no meaning is possible without thought.
Absence of thought, absence of meaning.
you make the meaning.

the same distinction is in the bible and other old stories.

Paradise or Radiant Being and eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge or stoopid arse thinking.
If you don't get it you don't get it.


listen Pam,
emptiness recognition is grokked independently.
if there is stuff goin' down in the worldliness of the world you have aversion, preference for/ or prejudice against.
Should I give a shit.
Should my bliss be wrecked by that.
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Leyla Shen »

Absence of thought, absence of meaning.
you make the meaning.
Yes, Dennis. Though you say this a lot, you demonstrate it sparingly:
Paradise or Radiant Being and eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge or stoopid arse thinking.
If you don't get it you don't get it.
How much meaning is in that?

That's the point.
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Leyla Shen »

Funny. I had the feeling things might be different.
Well, you know what they say about feelings...
A bit of a let-loose. Straight question, straight answer. An answer of yes, or an answer of no.

The answer of yes would establish that like most common folk, Nietzsche indulged in self-cherishing, and was thus from the Buddhist perspective as deluded as the cowboy.
That is completely prejudicial.

If there was something more substantial to your slur, I would have been more than happy to have addressed it.

Like Dennis, you seem to think enlightenment is literally a total absence of thought, rather than non-attachment itself to one or another or many things.

By this reasoning, the ultimate enlightenment is literal death.

Hell, everybody gets there, eventually!
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Like Dennis, you seem to think enlightenment is literally a total absence of thought, rather than non-attachment itself to one or another or many things.
No, you think that.
The ball was in your court and that's what you came up with.
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Leyla Shen »

And?
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Leyla Shen »

Oh, you left.

And nothing, I guess...

(:
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Dennis Mahar »

You returned to the net.
40 love.
game over
take a shower.

get a new racket.
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Leyla Shen »

40 luv, my way.

I got that point on my first serve before you even noticed the ball.
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Leyla Shen »

Your acting is cute, but it doesn't make the grade; even your spelling betrays you!
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Dennis Mahar »

That's the same racket.
Leyla Shen
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Leyla Shen »

And that's the same bible.
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Luv your radiance Leyla.
Thankyou.
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Cahoot »

LS wrote:
If there was something more substantial to your slur, I would have been more than happy to have addressed it.
No slur intended, quite likely conditions have prejudiced your perceptions a tich.

Just consider it an opportunity to express your involvement with this man. :)

Well think it over. No rush. Days, weeks, whatever, time doesn’t matter.
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Leyla Shen »

No slur intended, quite likely conditions have prejudiced your perceptions a tich.

Just consider it an opportunity to express your involvement with this man. :)
Ah, Cahoot. Surely you know me somewhat better than that, by now. I will consider it as I see fit.
Well think it over. No rush. Days, weeks, whatever, time doesn’t matter.
Thanks, but your advice isn't necessary!

Course, if there's something else you'd like to say, you know, some thought you'd like to discuss. Be my guest.
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Course, if there's something else you'd like to say, you know, some thought you'd like to discuss. Be my guest.

Distilling Nietzsche gets at his message:
'Constant Overcoming'

He lived in a house with his mum and sister who badgered him and hen-pecked him mercilessly.
He would run off to cafes and write furiously designing a winning formula or archetype.
Then he would go home and say 'Yes Mum' and whine that there were no good chicks anywhere.

A couple of months of TR0 would have sorted the 'ol meaningmaker out.

You can't get at a philosopher without getting at their personal circumstances.
What they are disclosing is their 'private soliloquoy.
Their frikkin' Soap Opera.

Kierkegaard's Regina soap as a case in point.

Stick to Heidegger (the bees knees)
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Vaporisation

Post by Leyla Shen »

Hi, Dennis.
Stick to Heidegger (the bees knees)
Oh, so that’s whose voice you’ve been mimicking! Ah, inconstancy; thy name is Dennis!

And for whom you abandoned your once much loved “Superman”.

(:
Distilling Nietzsche gets at his message:
'Constant Overcoming'

He lived in a house with his mum and sister who badgered him and hen-pecked him mercilessly.
He would run off to cafes and write furiously designing a winning formula or archetype.
Then he would go home and say 'Yes Mum' and whine that there were no good chicks anywhere.

A couple of months of TR0 would have sorted the 'ol meaningmaker out.

You can't get at a philosopher without getting at their personal circumstances.
What they are disclosing is their 'private soliloquoy.
Their frikkin' Soap Opera.

Kierkegaard's Regina soap as a case in point.
From a quick summation of a few bits and pieces on the internet, I think he’s on the mark when he speaks about what philosophy is. One of the first things you’ll find on looking for him in all the right places, interestingly (: , is a critique of the often quoting of an oft quoted sentence of Marx.

The available translation goes like this:
“The question of a demand for world change is listed in the often-quoted sentence of Karl Marx in the Theses on Feuerbach and I want to quote to you exactly and read immediately; ‘The philosopher has hitherto interpreted the world. The point is to change it.’ By citation of this sentence and by following this sentence, one overlooks the fact that a world change presupposes a change of the world’s conception, and that a conception of the world can be won only by the fact that one interprets the world sufficiently. That is, Marx bases it on a completely certain world interpretation to demand his change, and thereby he himself knows that this sentence is not a sound sentence. He works the impression as if it was directly spoken against philosophy. In the second part of the sentence, just as unspoken is the philosophical claim that is presupposed.”
This is a sublime irony for the "philosopher’s proper" who proclaim Marx was not a philosopher. As here, what Heidegger is pointing out is that Marx is indeed calling for philosophy!

This is relevant because Marx, in this quote, is talking about world change, transformation; or, in Nietzschean terms, overcoming and undergoing!

So in your above declaration, together with the discovery that Heidegger certainly agrees with Marx’s proposition that Western philosophy has no history (no anthropology) I found no absolutely no justifiable grounds whatsoever to your claim that Nietzche is not a philosopher proper but a mere "victim of his own circumstances". But boy would I like to see an actual, coherent argument from you for it!

And it seems that certain critics of Heidegger would agree.

From a customer review on Amazon:
Heidegger's work on the doctrine of eternal return are practically incomparable in terms of their rigor and creativity. He has successfully placed Nietzsche's work as the total overcoming of Platonism and as the consummation of Western Metaphysics. A true tour de force of philosophical inquiry.
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Once there's a World to play in sure there's a case for existential thinking in the order of Nietzsche, Kierkegaard et al.

Heidegger asks what is thinking, what is language,
what does it do?

He gets at primordial being,
radiant being, Spirit.
before the winning formulas come into play as 'dealing with' or coping.

The Wisdom Traditions unite in a possibility:
Spirit
Mind
Body

The mind is tricky ricky.
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Leyla Shen »

You know nothing about either of them, Dennis.

Only what a few words trigger in an instant in that "tricky" mind of yours!
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Leyla Shen »

Seriously, just call what you do Dennism.

It has no philosophic relation to anything. Anyone who has actually given those mens' minds more than the thought of a passing fancy can see right through you, my dear. You just don't know it.
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Re: Suffering Revisited

Post by Dennis Mahar »

What is thinking?
What is a paradigm?

Distinguishing experience from concept about experience.

experience happened, conceptualised later,
a story about what happened generates and formularised,
is enrolled in, attached to
the paradigm sets like concrete and lives the personhood,
the person never actually lives

in order to for the sake of, making some order out of apparent chaos

putting ground in what is

groundless
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