GENIUS FORUMS

mikiel,

you're greasy, and you can try to slither away from the truth as much as you want, but the truth remains. A subjective experience, as lofty as it may feel, cannot justify a true belief in an afterlife.

you're basically a coward if you cannot recognize that there is a real good chance that when you die, the slate gets whipped clean, and nothing will remain there at all.

Kevin Solway wrote:These are not meant to be taken literally. They are in fact only stories about cause and effect, out of which we are supposed to extract meaning.

He should have made it explicit by saying something like this:

O Monks, these stories which I tell you are not meant to be taken literally, they are mere metaphors. In fact there is no rebirth, and consciousness disappears at death.

My reading of this is that he did actually believe in the continuity of consciousness, but realized that it is not immortal as a soul, but like all things in the universe is continuously transforming and merging and reemerging.

It all depends on your cosmology, his philosophy fits seamlessly with the Hindu worldview of his time which regards consciousness as primary, and the material world akin to a dream, while with the modern scientific worldview that holds matter as primary, continuity of consciousness seems awkward.

Ryan Rudolph wrote:mikiel,

you're greasy, and you can try to slither away from the truth as much as you want, but the truth remains. A subjective experience, as lofty as it may feel, cannot justify a true belief in an afterlife.

you're basically a coward if you cannot recognize that there is a real good chance that when you die, the slate gets whipped clean, and nothing will remain there at all.

R.R.,
You are an idiot. First, I have no "beliefs." I gave a link to my page here recently, "Beyond Belief, Gnosis."
(see www.consciousunity.org)
If you read it, it went over you head.
Secondly, personal identity is an illusion. This is central to what I have presented here all these months, yet you have missed it and attributed a false belief to me.

I was the priest at my fathers's funeral in '87. I inscribed a sign on his forhead at the altar. About three months later, after my usual hour of meditation, I "asked" if he was still "around" and sat in receptive mode awaiting any possible answer.
After 15 or 20 min, a cool focus of air, like blown through a straw, inscribed the same sign on my forehead. I felt that this was his "farewell" sign back to me. No "proof." Just a very clear and vivid "subjective experience."

Make of it what you will.... have fun ridiculing the mysteries which you have never experienced and now consider fabricatiions... or mere internal subjective fantasies. I know the difference through a lifetime of mystic experiences which it seems you can only ridicule based on your inexperience in this realm. Not my problem. Sorry you are stuck in a materialistic worldview.

Ryan Rudolph wrote:mikiel,

you're greasy, and you can try to slither away from the truth as much as you want, but the truth remains. A subjective experience, as lofty as it may feel, cannot justify a true belief in an afterlife.

you're basically a coward if you cannot recognize that there is a real good chance that when you die, the slate gets whipped clean, and nothing will remain there at all.

I swore this forum off after getting into it with one of the village idiots, but... I'm drunk and don't mind throwing a few thoughts out there at this point.



I must have been just about 19... When one night, effected by acid... I came to a brilliant and frightening realization. "My body is a biological machine."

Machine... being the key word.

It haunted me... for weeks, passively I entertained the idea that I don't have a soul and this "body and mind contained within" is all that I will ever be.

All...

This is it... This is me waving hello to my bright idea that my body is composed of a very complex chain reaction of atoms defining my existence through evolution (or circumstance adaptation, as I'd like to think any evolution would take place.)

It killed my passion for things.

I started to see everything in patterns. Life, non-life, and life affecting realities were starting to come into focus for the very mathematical and coldly explained inevitable response to circumstance we see every day. Earth's circumstance to be more specific, societies unpredictable circumstance to be even more blunt.

Crutching along, I began to see animals trying to be more than merely primal, instead attempting to live up to the expectation of being "human."

Human... what does that word really mean?

Every conversation you've ever had is categorized as human... All those thoughts and twists of fate slowly shaping a culture, an idea of right and wrong, an understanding of the meaning of "is."

It just is... We just are...

Sometimes I think we waist so much time disagreeing with one another that we forget about the real reason any of us bothered to open our mouths to begin with.

Sharing... sharing knowledge, beliefs, experiences...



I hope in the future when we disagree we can choose to rise above difference and find a way to compare notes and "hopefully" discover truth along the way.

Poetry to some... But a fucking fact from the best I can tell, bottom line is listening and responding without condescending remarks is key to convincing another mind of "your" point of view.

If you want to be the tyrant, the noble, the righteous, even the guru... so be it.

But the way you interact with others is key to any end game.

Chemical reaction or soul at work aside, we are all what we are, and no amount of debate changes that...

But in order to completely understand what that is, we have to be open to other opinions, even if blatantly bias and unthoughtful.


When confronted with ignorance... Do not scorn it, evolve it.

Ignorance is a curable disease. It is a disease of the mind that affects personality and perception, but it is also a very fixable problem...

Don't hate... inform.

Don't conquer... Convert.

And surely, never loose yourself trying to defend a point that is more deserving of your behavior or presentation.

Just think about it, and leave no room for interpretation or a debate in what you say.



Just some random thoughts collecting themselves. Thought they might apply.

Cheers:)