GENIUS FORUMS

Bo1,

How do you "unbury wisdom"?


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[edit:] Adding a comment....

I see I've confused you a bit. Before my statement about my exploration of the obnoxious ten-year-old mentality, I made a long reply to you. Although I was being deliberately forthright, and somewhat rude, it wasn't by much. Not by much at all.

My comments were primarily aimed at an analysis of the feminine mind. Having love affairs to see if one can be a woman's new handbag is a serious psychological experiment. One can see that celibacy has nothing to do with having sexual intercourse, for instance.

Would you like to respond to that long reply?

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Bof1’s An Affair to Remember is a cautionary tale which inspires the eradication of woman from one’s mind before her poison completely destroys it. Alas - for Bof1, it seems that it is already too late.

There is an old saying that goes “Be careful what you wish for, lest it come true”. Bof1’s wish was to be engulfed by a beautiful woman – which, no matter how he tries to dress it up, has nothing whatsoever to do with wisdom and everything to do with being deeply attached to having one’s ego stroked.

And as to the young woman - well, she was doing the normal thing that bright pretty females do: exerting their power over everything and everyone. She must have been feeling exceptionally lazy on the day she stumbled across Bof1, for she picked a very easy target - or it could have been that she was just practicing on him and had a superior target in mind whilst doing it.

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Sue

Touche, Sue. Yes, laziness, but also the same old unconsciousness and inability to endure solitude. Woman screams so loudly when I face pure subjectivity, and my attention shifts so quickly away.

If only I could accept my commands and ideals, and not keep believing "I don't have to, I'm already intelligent enough....."

[edit: Perhaps the comforting label of being a hypocrite is something I have to take off now.]

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Kelly wrote:

It's likely that the girl has psychological problems, has seen you before, and was in her ovulatory phase when she contacted you (it made her outgoing and capable of a cold call). She's looking for a psychotherapist (a loyal thinking man), but doesn't have the confidence or self-awareness to articulate what she requires. That's why she's offering sexually satisfying company, since she wants you to stick around to help clarify her problems.

I could be wrong.........................but doubt it.

I think you could be wrong. Young bright beautiful women don’t need reasons to approach men – they do it because they can. The woman you describe would frighten most men away; leaving only the ugly, the crazy, and the sadists to fight over her. But then again, Bof1 might have been looking at her through rose coloured glasses, and she really was the mad hatter you describe above.

Either way, Bof1 used his 'smarts' to attract her, and she played dumb to get him. Truly, a match made in heaven.

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Sue

sue hindmarsh wrote:I think you could be wrong. Young bright beautiful women don’t need reasons to approach men – they do it because they can. The woman you describe would frighten most men away; leaving only the ugly, the crazy, and the sadists to fight over her. But then again, Bof1 might have been looking at her through rose coloured glasses, and she really was the mad hatter you describe above.

It was the best possible construction.

Come to think of it, a beautiful woman with psychological problems, who wishes to solve them properly, will realise that people always seem to flatter her because she is beautiful. So, if intelligent, she'll degrade her appearance.

If she is keen not to be molested, she will dress down, and look as boyish as possible. No "long hair down to her buttocks" and dressing to show her figure....

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Kelly wrote:

Come to think of it, a beautiful woman with psychological problems, who wishes to solve them properly, will realise that people always seem to flatter her because she is beautiful. So, if intelligent, she'll degrade her appearance.

Very rarely does a beautiful woman remain beautiful if she is riddled with psychological problems. She may start off beautiful, but quickly the illness works itself to the outside, where it becomes evident for all to see. Exceptions do exist: women like Marilyn Monroe remained beautiful, though desperately ill. She had to work very hard to maintain her looks, and dying when she did, means that her beauty has been preserved. If she’d continued to live, we may have seen her beauty totally ravaged by her mind.

If she is keen not to be molested, she will dress down, and look as boyish as possible. No "long hair down to her buttocks" and dressing to show her figure....

Beautiful women, even when “dressed down”, or shaven head, still remain beautiful. The power of their beauty often prevents “molestation”, as most men are too shy to approach a beautiful woman, as they fear rejection. Also, if you are beautiful, you expect a certain amount of men ogling at you, wolf whistles, pinches on the bottom, unwelcome grabs and embraces – it is all part of the job.

The reason women ‘dress down’ or don’t show off their figure is if their partners, or communities want them to do that, or if they themselves feel unattractive.

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Sue

A correction: my greatest blockage (maybe the only greatest one?) is love of madness - the excitement of being on the run, wanton, destructive, reckless, not-my-responsibility-I'm-mad. Emotionalism is the ego saying: "I must be, I must be, I am nothing in reality, so I am desperate to keep ahead of the illusion...."

Being a mad hatter is the same as being this will o' the wisp, try on any hat you like --- or handbag.

What is a hypocrite?

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How to stop trying to distract oneself, being a hypocrite, avoiding emptiness is: Not by exploring an opposite to the attachment, but by going straight to the Absolute. It has to be one's whole being, not psychological or an activity (like trying to be calmer and "detached").

There's an aphorism of Rhett's that comes to mind, but I can't find it. It goes something like:

"Everything will flood around the sides, if you push from only one direction."



The closest I can find:

The Abyss

Wisdom is gained through immersion.
Truth is at the bottom of the deepest abyss.
Forget about trying to hold your breath,
You must drown yourself.

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sue hindmarsh wrote:Beautiful women, even when “dressed down”, or shaven head, still remain beautiful.

I appreciate this discussion. I've been more aware lately of a mental fight about "beauty" and "ugliness". It comes down to the rational conclusion I ought to reject the poses of being "attractive", "respectable", friendly, "normal", "non-stirrer". The fight comes from the frightened knowledge that in a small country town, the bush telegraph is strong. Already quite a few people know my views, and see me as quite an odd and unlikeable person. Having everyone sniping (subtly or obviously) is hard-going.... Even the grocery ladies get buttoned lips when I go through the check-outs, even though I've never said a word! Being on one's toes like this is exhausting.

My desire to find friendly looks has appeared a lot lately. Well, I suppose the answer is - as above - into the Abyss, and drown. It'll probably be easier when I get used to it, but I hope it's not masochism.

The power of their beauty often prevents “molestation”, as most men are too shy to approach a beautiful woman, as they fear rejection. Also, if you are beautiful, you expect a certain amount of men ogling at you, wolf whistles, pinches on the bottom, unwelcome grabs and embraces – it is all part of the job.

So a beautiful woman being molested and dishonestly manipulated would either remain beautiful because her ego thrives on her sadistic revenge, or become ugly because her ego withers in masochistic violence.

But I've had quite a few folk say they think I'm a boy, or a Buddhist monk, which is why I'm not troubled by physical violence. Though new male acquaintances usually talk firstly about snakes etc. and make vague references to sexual abduction. I usually interpret it as the attempt to dominate, and reduce me to a passive frightened silly woman.

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Kelly,

Small towns are usually known to be small minded. Perhaps it would be more beneficial for you to move to a larger town, or city. In a larger place you would just be one of the crowd.

Being considered a male doesn't mean that you are safe from violence. Each year, more males than females are violently injured or killed.

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Sue

Kelly wrote:

My greatest blockage (maybe the only greatest one?) is love of madness - the excitement of being on the run, wanton, destructive, reckless, not-my-responsibility-I'm-mad. Emotionalism is the ego saying: "I must be, I must be, I am nothing in reality, so I am desperate to keep ahead of the illusion...."

Being a mad hatter is the same as being this will o' the wisp, try on any hat you like --- or handbag.

What is a hypocrite?

How to stop trying to distract oneself, being a hypocrite, avoiding emptiness is: Not by exploring an opposite to the attachment, but by going straight to the Absolute. It has to be one's whole being, not psychological or an activity (like trying to be calmer and "detached").

Well, you’re not alone in using "your madness" as a means to an end. Most attachments people have are those that ensure they will never reach sanity. There is only one attachment which will bring all attachments to an end, and that is the attachment to cause and effect. Simply using it to see the infinite present in all things breaks the backs of attachments. But, if your mind is not ready to relax into this occupation, doing other things to first quiet the mind (such as therapy, reading, listening to music, watching movies, going for walks, talking to people) can hasten the mind's healing. Learning to choose distractions that are beneficial to your development is a necessary step if your mind is racked by fear and self-doubt. These new attachments allow the mind time to settle enough so that you can begin to discover what your real strengths and weaknesses are. Once you grow to understand your own mind better, you can then begin to trust it. After which, you may find that you’re able to take a closer look at your own existence with a clear and steady mind.

There's an aphorism of Rhett's that comes to mind, but I can't find it. It goes something like:

"Everything will flood around the sides, if you push from only one direction."

The closest I can find:

The Abyss
Wisdom is gained through immersion.
Truth is at the bottom of the deepest abyss.
Forget about trying to hold your breath,
You must drown yourself.

Yes, if you want to do anything well, you have to throw yourself into it completely. But if you don’t prepare well for your journey, the chances of you succeeding diminish. To give yourself the best possible chance of succeeding, you need to be patient enough to see each step on the way as important and as necessary as the goal itself.

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Sue

Thanks for the reminders. Well, I can't be to blame, nor is "my" karma of thousands of years of weak-minded humans to blame either. Time for the comedians.

I think it's probably a good idea to move to a larger town. I was kidding myself that this rough neck of the woods had closet philosophers hiding behind the trees somewhere. But even more, it's not healthy for me to be so hypervigilant. Hiding in the crowd and just observing for a while will help.

sue hindmarsh wrote:Being considered a male doesn't mean that you are safe from violence. Each year, more males than females are violently injured or killed.

This has taken a turn. I had never seriously considered until this evening that being hated and alone is inevitable for me. And to be without emotion or concern about this....just because I am deciding to, without fatalism.

I'm fairly calm about it. Maybe from naivete.

I'm not sure what the statistics are for asian males in Australia. Anyway, it would be reckless to undertake serious discussions if I haven't reached closure on my habituation to violence. I evidently have some thinking to do.....

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sue hindmarsh

Beautiful women, even when “dressed down”, or shaven head, still remain beautiful. The power of their beauty often prevents “molestation”, as most men are too shy to approach a beautiful woman, as they fear rejection. Also, if you are beautiful, you expect a certain amount of men ogling at you, wolf whistles, pinches on the bottom, unwelcome grabs and embraces – it is all part of the job.

The reason women ‘dress down’ or don’t show off their figure is if their partners, or communities want them to do that, or if they themselves feel unattractive.

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Sue

actually unwelcome grabs etc are legally battery if a man touched me i would have him arrested

as for the ogling comments etc. i have confronted men on it more than once

they are always surprised

one said as i walked away

'i didn't mean to hurt your feelings'

'you didn't hurt my feelings it is just rude don't do it again'

i was doing some consulting with a man who owns property in my building

he had a patent on an innovative product which he wanted to produce

i told him you don't need to do that since you have the patent then you can license the idea to someone and let them produce it and then collect royalties

i had seen an article about a book on 'how to license your million dollar idea' on the net

he was very impressed and wanted to work with me on my terms

which were i have my own projects so i am not going the distance for yours and we can only meet occasionally at $100 a hour for my time my mental time

agreed here is $100 to start

the one piece of info related was easily worth $100

then as we were talking he said 'next time we meet will you wear you hair up like a ballerina'

and that was the end of that

he apologized but i was no longer willing to work with him

i dress down in order not to appear inviting

i own no shorts no short skirts and exactly one v neck top

i feel that i have the right to enjoy being beautiful and the world has the right to enjoy me as if i were a tree or a sunset

i have been stalked irl and on the internet

i have never posted a picture on the net

irl i have turned any approaches over to the authorities notes on my door with phone numbers harassing neighbors etc.

'but i love her' a neighbor to two policemen

'she doesn't want you to love her' from the policeman

on the net someone hacked into my msn im account

i deleted the account

beauty has this power

there is not a man in this world who would not give a woman he finds beautiful two minutes of his time even bill gates

it is up to you how you present yourself in those two minutes because men are ready to give you what you want

it is what you want that defines you in their eyes and how you are treated from there on

i expect respect no exceptions

Brilliant AND beautiful. Sky, I hate to be just another drop in the bucket, but I love you too! lol.

Ksolway:

I've never used viagra, but a man cannot have sex unless he can generate some kind of desire. A fully enlightened person cannot generate the desire.

Krishnamurti referred to his body as a horse that he was riding. It is important to acknowledge and maintain a healthy vessel. Sexual impulses are innate, instinctual, biological impulses on the most simple, mechanical and animal levels. But please don’t get me confused, I am not saying that one needs to have sex in order to remain healthy, I am simply saying that it doesn’t matter. An enlightened person can acknowledge and indulge his human characteristics (otherwise what is the point in being human) yet remained detached, or better yet not savour them. Does an enlightened person eat ice cream? He might, or he might not. He certainly doesn’t have to eat ice cream, but if he is truly enlightened, he could easily maintain a fully functioning biological vessel and still remain spiritually complete with or without it (in other words he could get a hard on without Viagra and without desires). Do you believe it is possible to explore transcendental spiritual states through sexual intercourse? Do you believe in the ancient practices of Taoist sexual yoga or sexual kung fu? Do you deny the spiritual implications of Tantra? Notice I am not saying that these practices are necessary for spiritual attainment, I am merely saying that they are not always a hindrance.

AlyOshA wrote:

Sexual impulses are innate, instinctual, biological impulses on the most simple, mechanical and animal levels.

This is what I suspect as well.

Kevin Solway wrote:

I've never used viagra, but a man cannot have sex unless he can generate some kind of desire. A fully enlightened person cannot generate the desire.

So if you walk by a beautiful woman, you dont feel anything Kevin? So instinctive drives? no levels of attraction? nothing?

So I take it you no longer masterbate either then...?

However this is actually quite problematic because if everyone were enlightened in the way you suggest then as a species we would have no way of reproducing/continuing, Do you think Nature would let that happen?

AlyOshA wrote:Beingof1

I do not need the effections of a woman because I am already complete in my state of being. Why would I want to step down off my buzz to hell on earth?

If you are really complete in your being then having sex with a woman would not change anything, it would make no difference whatsoever.

Except that she would have expectations and this would lead to suffering.

Most try to derive their wholeness by putting their faith in another human being and set themselves up for failure. A human will always let us down(even the enlightened) because the root cause of separation is internal and it is folly to try to be complete in another. It creates the cycle of hell to use someone else to be put on a throne and attempt to evoke worship from another.

I agree with this, but what if you obtain a different kind of relationship? Like two birds who are complete within themselves and free to fly anywhere they choose, but instead they choose to fly together. We have hormones and biological instincts for a reason, it is best to understand these aspects of ourselves and not confuse them for our true being, but that does not necessarily mean that we have to refuse them altogether (although that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t). After all they are a part of our nature (and nature in general).

It would be rare indeed.

I am free from this cycle but still acknowledge that all and everyone is trying to break free - just looking in the wrong place.

What if everyone was exactly like you? What if there was no diversity, no extremes, and no violence, just spiritually complete people? Would it be paradise? Is this type of paradise possible? Will it ever happen?

It will happen when others stop spindling their thoughts about what is and is not freedom and begin to use the God given common sense and listen to those that are actually free.


sue hindmarsh:

Bof1’s An Affair to Remember is a cautionary tale which inspires the eradication of woman from one’s mind before her poison completely destroys it. Alas - for Bof1, it seems that it is already too late.

There is an old saying that goes “Be careful what you wish for, lest it come true”. Bof1’s wish was to be engulfed by a beautiful woman – which, no matter how he tries to dress it up, has nothing whatsoever to do with wisdom and everything to do with being deeply attached to having one’s ego stroked.

Did I have to post that?

Could I have kept it a secret and give the illusion that it never happened?

You are a fundamentalist and your religion is that you believe that the feminine has power over all men.

Didn`t a 'sage' that is a resident here say a Buddha could have sex with an infant? You will blindly follow that statement without question because you are still deep in your own illusion of power.

This post has no substance whatsoever, it is just the blind belief in your own power of being a woman.

What is more, you are a woman, I am a man, and that is the breaks, deal with it.


Edit:
I decided to say something that I had to consider.

I brought up this incident and deliberately used phrases like "knockout" and "beautiful" to demonstrate the absurd attachment to idealized power of the 'feminine'. Sue and Kelly are envious as you are not getting the attention you want and you think you deserve it because you are women.

How dare this lovely young woman steal the show, should I retrain the spotlight back on you?

Beingof1

Except that she would have expectations and this would lead to suffering.

Good point.

The “two bird flying free” analogy is rare indeed, but still possible (although not necessary for everyone). True spiritual enlightenment is rare indeed, but still possible (although not necessary for everyone). Your words are powerful Beingof1, but please acknowledge that your way is just that – your way. It is not the only way (and I’m sure you know this).

It will happen when others stop spindling their thoughts about what is and is not freedom and begin to use the God given common sense and listen to those that are actually free.

Vague but true (like all wisdom). I feel that our world could not function (remain balanced or complete) if everyone was exactly like you (or me). I am glad that you found freedom Beingof1, I am also glad that you help others on their quests, But when looking at the Absolute, the big picture, I don’t find you any bit more necessary than someone who is your exact opposite. I promote your way simply because of my nature (as opposed to promoting the way of your opposite). I have a higher self-awareness and like you have not yet abandoned the physical plane altogether.

You are a fundamentalist and your religion is that you believe that the feminine has power over all men.

Hmm.. From this point I need to direct this conversation to David Quinn’s dissertation on the masculine and feminine psychology.

cosmic prostitute

However this is actually quite problematic because if everyone were enlightened in the way you suggest then as a species we would have no way of reproducing/continuing, Do you think Nature would let that happen?

no

since human embodiment is required for enlightenment those involved with reproduction are necessary

taking the path to enlightenment will always be for only a small percentage of the whole

cosmic_whore:

However this is actually quite problematic because if everyone were enlightened in the way you suggest then as a species we would have no way of reproducing/continuing, Do you think Nature would let that happen?

This is why I say all this enlightenment stuff, if taken to far, is a nihilistic death meme.

Sky wrote:

taking the path to enlightenment will always be for only a small percentage of the whole

How can you be absolutely certain that this will 'always' be the case?

and are you presently free from sexual desire completely?

Or have you read it somewhere?
Or taken the word of some guru who stated he was free from sexual desire?

I suspect that sexual desire is governed by hormonal/chemical mechanisms that are controlled by the DNA. Every cell needs to divide/replicate. It necessary for the body even though it is a violent destructive process.

It would be like saying that if we lived in a perfect world (utopia) all earthquakes, volcanos, floods, hurricanes would end, all these destructive processes are a necessary part of the creation process.

I'm skeptical of such a claim because to my mind sexual desire is perfectly natural/normal and vitally important for the continuence of the species.

It doesnt make sense, surely the enlightened should be able to reproduce, they represent the highest quality genes in the genepool...

Enlightenment doesn't result in stupidity. If a planet of enlightened people wanted their species to continue, then I'm sure they would take the necessary steps to continue it - whether it be through natural intercourse (possibly with the help of Viagra!) or through technological means, such as artificial insemination, IV treatment, cloning, and the like.

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millipodium wrote:

This is why I say all this enlightenment stuff, if taken to far, is a nihilistic death meme.

It only seems nihilistic to those who have a strong attachment to things in this world and who lack any insight into what enlightenment entails. For the insightful person who values truth above all else, enlightenment doesn't seem nihilistic at all. On the contrary, it seems glorious, life-affirming and full. It is ordinary worldly life which seems nihilistic.

It's all relative.

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Cosmic Prostitute:

Or have you read it somewhere?

That is a good question. I wonder how much of this thread (or any of the threads) comes from personal accomplishment and experience and how much of it is regurgitation.

It would be like saying that if we lived in a perfect world (utopia) all earthquakes, volcanos, floods, hurricanes would end, all these destructive processes are a necessary part of the creation process.

I'm skeptical of such a claim because to my mind sexual desire is perfectly natural/normal and vitally important for the continuence of the species.

It doesnt make sense, surely the enlightened should be able to reproduce, they represent the highest quality genes in the genepool...

Couldn’t agree more cosmic prostitute.

Beingof1 said:

I am free from this cycle but still acknowledge that all and everyone is trying to break free - just looking in the wrong place.

I will relate a true story for you and I would like to know your ideas/impressions. A close friend of mine used to be a miserable asshole (or in more polite words: someone seriously entangled in the cycle and far from breaking free). His name was Terry. Terry was egomaniacal, rude, single-minded, aggressive, always picking fights, and just an insufferable, bullheaded asshole (far from reaching any sort of enlightenment). One day he picked a fight and some generous soul decided beat the living crap out of him. He got beat up so bad that he would never forget it. From that point forward an incredible change happened in Terry’s presence and character. He became humble, gentle, loving, accepting, open-minded (as opposed to single-minded), and willing to learn and grow both on the spiritual realm and on the physical one. Hence he has become a close friend to me. Terry is now closer than ever to breaking free from the cycle and developing a true, eternal understanding of himself and existence (although he is not yet enlightened). But what was the cause of this lesson, what provided him this release? A simple, rudimentary ass beating. The reason I use this example is to show how everything must be viewed on a specific, case-by-case basis. There are no blanket truths or singular ways that can encompass everything. In this particular (one might say rare) instance, violence was a necessary tool. So I ask you beingof1 what tools are you willing to accept when it comes to helping people break from the cycle and obtain freedom?

sky wrote:

i dress down in order not to appear inviting

i own no shorts no short skirts and exactly one v neck top

And yet your writing is such a pretty shade of blue. And the way that you don't use capitals - so youthful, trendy and feminine. And the name "sky" - so soft and yielding.

i feel that i have the right to enjoy being beautiful and the world has the right to enjoy me as if i were a tree or a sunset

Or a sex-object.

If you present yourself as an alluring sex-object, then you will be treated as one. You can't very well complain about the unwelcome male attention you are receiving. You invite it, and I dare say you secretly enjoy it.

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AlyOshA wrote:

That is a good question. I wonder how much of this thread (or any of the threads) comes from personal accomplishment and experience and how much of it is regurgitation.

That happens a lot around here, people preach ideals that they one day hope will come true. They also talk a lot about an emotionless state which could be possible, but what is the point preaching about something that you haven’t yet achieved?

David Quinn wrote:

Enlightenment doesn't result in stupidity. If a planet of enlightened people wanted their species to continue, then I'm sure they would take the necessary steps to continue it - whether it be through natural intercourse (possibly with the help of Viagra!) or through technological means, such as artificial insemination, IV treatment, cloning, and the like.

Oh Poppycock Quinn! Do you actually think that nature will leave the wise man incapable of reproducing to the point where he has to reply on technology when there is a perfectly able natural mechanism already established within the human body?

Here is my diagnosis for you and Solway: Too much exposure to Star Trek, and I’m putting my foot down: no more Saturday Night Pajama Parties for you two…

Actually Quinn now that I think about it, you’re probably stroking your penius as you read this you little horndog, How much internet pornography do you have stored on your hard drive? Come on, come clean, give me a number? How many GB?