GENIUS FORUMS

hsandman wrote:

BTW, since when is 'anti-semite' profanity?

Since 1945? Since it became illegal?

It's illegal to bew an anti-semite? Where?

Dude, you are the ignoramus to end all ignoramuses... A paradigmatic ignoramus, so to speak.

Yes, actually. You see, all peoples have a fundamental right to political self-determination -- it's the #1 listed right in two different UN covenants. Denying Israel its right to exist is denying jews their right to political self-determination.

Go determine your asses somewhere else? Stop squatting?

like i said. You apply to jews a standard of judgment you do not apply to any other people.

As far as I know there are no tanks killing aboriginals in Australia and Indians in America... not yet.

Nor did this happen in israel in 1948. jews were willing to accept the UN partition, arabs were not -- arabs went to war (the neighboring arab states, mind you, not so much palestinians themselves), trying to push Israel into the sea, and got beaten.

I appose (so much for obvious ey? where did you get that idea? stop being presumptuous, you asshole.) the way western civilisation has taken over land from indigenous people

but you don't proclaim that USA or Australia have no right to exist, liar.

but at least they are not perpetrating constant crimes against humanity on the neighbouring foreign states.

Oh, you mean the little thing Israelis to do deal with their innocent civilians being blown to bits in cafes and buses? Try tried unilaterally withdrawing from Gaza in 2005. Everyone knows what this resulted in. The cessation of palestinian terrorism out of gaza was not one of those results.

uhh, what? did I just not show you that there is energy needed to keep the magnet UP?

No, you didn't, kiddo. That was exactly my point. You are so clueless about basic physics that you think magnet expends energy to stay up. it no more expends energy to stay up, than a hanging picture does.

WTF@! You are pretending or are you really that thick? Picture is supported by a object = NAIL!

And what do you think a NAIL is -- or any solid object for that matter? A nail is 99.999% pure unadulterated vacuum bridged by electromagnetic forces. The electromagnetic force in various contexts is what makes objects appear solid -- it holds atoms together but prevents them from collapsing into each other. What a magnet does by sticking to a vertical metal wall, or by floating in mid-air above other magnets (take two torus-shaped magnets and put them on a vertically held pencil with matching poles towards each other, one will float above the other), is a manifestation of the same physical forces which make objects seem solid.

Man, how fucking ignorant can you be?.. moron.

Stop showing your stupidity.

This is sad and pathetic, but also funny in a way.

Umm, NO? Static field? WTF?!

yes. See my link above. The same force which makes a magnet hang, also makes all things appear solid.

WOW. You are really fucked up, Stop trolling the internet you intellectual wanna-be and stop ignoring your wife and kids...

Talk about lame attempts at flaming... Dude, how pathetic can you get?

Victor, it's okay to use the "ignore" function. (Go to the person's profile and select "Foe.")

I know about it. I don't generally use it as a matter of principle.

What is the principle?

The principle that refusing to communicate is generally not a solution, but rather a part of the problem. More concretely, the ignore function generally acts as a weapon in flame wars, and a very lame, passive-aggressive one ('i am putting you on ignore! neener, neener, neener!') -- only to be quickly dropped, because what the ignorer wants is not to ignore someone, but to make a loud huffy statement.

If I am going to flame someone, there will be nothing passive about it. With the exception of genuine babblers who have nothing whatsoever to say (and who are very rare), the Ignore function is a lamer's tool IMO. I am not yet prepared to put hsandman into that category.

Just as there are a growing number of topics I won't bother to read (e.g., the HOAX of Evolution) because I know the content is almost certain to be retarded, there are certain posters who, over the course of several months, prove themselves to have nothing of value to say. So I put them on ignore.

There have been a few occasions where I have displayed posts by one of these people anyway - to get the context of someone else's comments, say - but so far, it seems that putting these posters makes the forum more pleasant, and no worthwhile content is lost.

It's your call, obviously, but rabid anti-semitism throws someone into the unreasonable idiot bucket, IMO. I think there's some saying about wrestling a pig that might be appropriate here.

Altho I started Cui Bono saying that Mossad and Wall Street Jews were involved, Christians were also necessary to pull it off. Falseflag events are nothing new in American history, and in ever case I can think for, for imperial purposes. In this case, invading Iraq hoping to get better control of the oil and at the same time, denying Saddam the oil money that he has used to fund his own visions of empire.

Given the scale of the venture, and the global benefit if it succeeded, a couple of white elephants on lower Manhattan and a few thousand American citizens, with a few more thousand soldiers, the attempt makes perfect machiavellian sense. It *is* about the oil, but it is also about the oil money being used to fund Islamic schools which are being used to create zealots, terrorists, and even suicide bombers.

I mean common. Would *you* follow a prophet with a 9 year old wife? Or believe him when he tells the Jihadim that they get to spend eternity fucking 12 year old virgins? Or does this tell you that Islamic followers are not like us in some fundamental way? I mean there's a reason these misgogynistic jackasses are still in the 12th century. And in the 1200 years since Mohammet, anyplace they have had a military advantage, they have pressed it, as they are doing now in Darfur.

But all this is just too complicated for the average American to understand. They not only do not want the truth, and cannot handle the truth, even if you gave it to them anyway, they would not be able to understand the truth. I likewise appreciate Sandman's observation that anti-Semitism and anti-zionism are different, but suggest that while I am politically incorrect, and while neither Jews nor Israelis care for what I have to say, I am neither.

Israel is a useful tool in trying to keep a lid on the Islamic world, altho its services may be over priced. Time & again, the Pentagon has relied on Israel to test weapons in real battle conditions, and do so against the most obvious enemy the New World Order has. I dunno how to evaluate the charge for those services.

No, 911 was a combination of greed and political expediency; an alliance between professionals and power elites blind sided by group think, and unable foresee the inept way the opportunity 911 created was handled. All that remains now, is for it all to unravel as retiring middle management boomers, who no longer have a career to protect, expose what they know about 911 on the internet.

These retirees will become informed of the work by Milgram, Zimbardo, Bandura, and Janis so that they will understand the psychological conditions under which they performed, and come to realize that they have no personal guilt for what happened to innocents. Like South Africa, the US needs to go thru a period of reconciliation. If you want justice, that will tear the Union apart. Which is another option.

Either way, Bush jr. can have his presidential library at his ranch... the one in Paraguay.

VD wrote:Yes, actually. You see, all peoples have a fundamental right to political self-determination -

Yes, you fucking small-minded moron, political, not religious. If only you lot had got that the first time around, you might have had enough insight to see what was around the corner. But, hey, you want a religious war, go for it. It’s not one I’ll be dragged into by virtue of “the collective.”

Whilst “Semite” denotes a peoples (more vast than the collective known as Jews), Judaism is not. The fact is that Judaism is a religion and, therefore, the question of Jewish emancipation is a theological not political question since the political state is exactly that; political and not religious.

VD wrote:Words mean what people use them to mean. Anti-semitism doesn't mean hating arabs of copts, it means hating jews.

L: It doesn't mean that to me. Therefore, you are contradicting yourself.

VD: What marvel! Since someone can say that about any word, no word means anything!

Words mean what people use them to mean. Collectively. The meaning of the word is determined by prevailing usage.

More fine Jewish reasoning! The Jewish Collective has spoken.

Your refusal to recognize prevailing usage does nothing to diminish it.

Then you have no reason to be concerned now, do you?

vicdan wrote:

Dan Rowden wrote:For those who may not know it, Victor is an AshkeNAZI Jew. You only have to use the word "Jew" and his antisemitism radar goes off.

Excuse me. You accentuate the word 'NAZI', and you pretend that nothing happened?

My antisemitism radar goes off when people start talking about zionist conspiracies, when people start denying Holocaust, when people claim that ashkenazim aren't really jews, etc. Faust had explicitly agreed with, and defended, The protocols, while Daybrown concern-trolled about Mossad staging 9/11, without a slightest shred of evidence.

None of those things necessarily point to antisemitism (a meaningless term if you ask me). When people claim it does they often do so as a means to nullify argument. I hope you don't approve of that strategy.

if that is not anti-semitism, I don't know what is.

It's an opinion about states of affairs. Do you believe Jews are ever open to criticism?

Are you playing dumb, danny, or do you genuinely not see supporting the Protocols, denying Holocaust, and discerning zionist conspiracy everywhere as instances of anti-semitism?

Oh, God, Victor, you are so funny sometimes. Everything is open to satire, sarcasm and so forth expect you and your Jewishness. Get over it. Such things are not automatically signs of anything. They may be be, but your reactions are always horrendously knee jerk - hence my post, which was essentially designed to indicate a hypersensitivity to the subject matter.

Leyla Shen wrote:

VD wrote:Yes, actually. You see, all peoples have a fundamental right to political self-determination -

Yes, you fucking small-minded moron, political, not religious.

Did it escape your two functional neurons that Israel is a secular nation-state of jews as an ethnicity? You don't have to be religious to commit aliyah, you just have to be an ethnic jew.

Jews are a people, an ethnicity -- like germans, french, or japanese. if you don't understand what 'ethnicity' is, you only have your poor toilet training and lack of parental attention to blame.

If only you lot had got that the first time around, you might have had enough insight to see what was around the corner. But, hey, you want a religious war, go for it. It’s not one I’ll be dragged into by virtue of “the collective.”

Give me a call when your clue arrives in the mail.

Whilst “Semite” denotes a peoples (more vast than the collective known as Jews), Judaism is not. The fact is that Judaism is a religion and, therefore, the question of Jewish emancipation is a theological not political question since the political state is exactly that; political and not religious.

Repeat after me, idiot: jews are an ethnicity. You can be a stark-raving atheist (like me) and still be a jew.

Didn't you notice that of the jewish names which are commonly cited as evidence of jews running the world, most aren't religious, don't wear kipah or peysy, and at best attend the temple on major holidays?.. Atheist jews prove that jews are an ethnicity. in fact, israel was founded by just such jews, the socialist atheist jews who comprised the second and third aliyah, founded the kibbutzim, and were the pre-eminent zionist movement involved in forming israel in 1948 (the Labor Zionists). Religion never played a significant role in defining Israel.

Damn, why do I get to deal with such ignorant idiots?..

VD wrote:Words mean what people use them to mean. Collectively. The meaning of the word is determined by prevailing usage.

More fine Jewish reasoning! The Jewish Collective has spoken.

hahaha. yeah, Jewish Reasoning. You should also look into this Jewish Science thing. That idea had been quite a hit around the middle of the last century.

Your refusal to recognize prevailing usage does nothing to diminish it.

Then you have no reason to be concerned now, do you?

Indeed. You are just a random ignorant idiot.

Dan Rowden wrote:

vicdan wrote:My antisemitism radar goes off when people start talking about zionist conspiracies, when people start denying Holocaust, when people claim that ashkenazim aren't really jews, etc. Faust had explicitly agreed with, and defended, The protocols, while Daybrown concern-trolled about Mossad staging 9/11, without a slightest shred of evidence.

None of those things necessarily point to antisemitism (a meaningless term if you ask me).

Sure it does. protocols have been conclusively proven fake. There is zero evidence of Mossad involvement in 9/11. holocaust did happen. No sane person, given available evidence and approaching those questions rationally, could conclude that Protocols are real, holocaust fake, and mossad staged 9/11 -- any more than a sane, rational person could affirm young-earth creationism or conclude that Earth is flat. As such, anti-semitism is the only plausible explanation for such ludicrous views.

It's an opinion about states of affairs. Do you believe Jews are ever open to criticism?

I don't believe that any people collectively are open to criticism. There is no feature you can ascribe to jews, brits, italians, or indians except for the fact of being a jew, a brit, an italian, or an indian. Any criticism of a whole people is idiocy.

Furthermore, there is a world of a difference between criticism, and engaging in abject lunacy like affirming the Protocols or denying Holocaust. That's not criticism. That's just bigoted idiocy.

Oh, God, Victor, you are so funny sometimes. Everything is open to satire, sarcasm and so forth expect you and your Jewishness.

Dude, if you are suggesting that Faust was being satirical or sarcastic when he affirmed the veracity of the Protocols, you are a moron. Since that is exactly what you are implying, then you are indeed a moron.

Victor,

I doubt you're aware of it but you formulate each and every post in such a way as to be able to reach a conclusion that the person you are arguing with is an idiot or a moron. You don't just debate the merits, you specifically negotiate your way to abuse, because that's obviously where your intentions lay. The abuse isn't an adjunct to the argument, it's the argument that is an adjunct to the abuse.

What is it you hope to achieve by it, exactly?

Dan Rowden wrote:I doubt you're aware of it but you formulate each and every post in such a way as to be able to reach a conclusion that the person you are arguing with is an idiot or a moron.

i doubt you are aware of it, but you are simply formulating your way to weasel out of such a conclusion. I have argued with plenty of people I do not consider idiots or morons. Unfortunately, most of GF members don't seem to be among them, yourself included. It takes a particular sort of idiot to defend the affirmation of the Protocols, or to dismiss is as a sarcastic, satirical lark.

You don't just debate the merits,

not when there's so little merit to deal with. There is zero merit in affirming the Protocols, denying Holocaust, suggesting that Mossad staged 9/11, asserting that magnets are an infinite source of magical energy, proposing that all vertebrates might die because the oxygen will vanish, claiming that jews are not an ethnicity, etc. (I am running low on synonyms, so I will stop now, but the list goes on) -- all positions which have been proposed by various 'geniuses' here, all prima facie, obviously, undeniably lunatic ones to anyoe with even the slightest of clues. Seriously.

This is indeed a forum for dangerous thinkers, but not the way you guys intended -- not 'disrupt your comfortable preconceptions' sort of dangerous, but 'stick your fingers in a table saw' kind of dangerous (oooh, what does that button do?)

You wanna see the source of idiocy? Consider why you are attracting so many raving, ignorant, in-your-face idiots here. Your forum, in terms of idiocy quotient, is about as bad as a typical fundy xian one. You just have idiots that swing in a different direction.

What is it you hope to achieve by it, exactly?

Why, peace on earth and end to war obviously.

vicdan wrote:You wanna see the source of idiocy? Consider why you are attracting so many raving, ignorant, in-your-face idiots here. Your forum, in terms of idiocy quotient, is about as bad as a typical fundy xian one. You just have idiots that swing in a different direction.

You define an idiot or a moron as anyone that disagree with you, Victor - on almost anything at all. Basically you talk as though your opinion was the standard for objective reality in all matters. When given the opportunity to educate you can't helpful yourself but to abuse instead. To me that puts you squarely in the category of moron.

Welcome, moron.

Dan Rowden wrote:You define an idiot or a moron as anyone that disagree with you, Victor - on almost anything at all.

Nope. Claiming that Protocols are real, or asserting that magnets are infinite sources of energy, is not idiocy because such claims disagree with me, but because they disagree with vast bodies of well-verified evidence. It just so happens that unlike you and so many other 'geniuses' here, i generally take pain to figure out what has been learned on the subject, before i stake a firm position on it. i am usually right because I follow the evidence, not because i simply assume I am.

I am not surprised you can't tell the difference, Dan. Assuming that you can define your way to a conclusion has rotted your ability to actually think.

When given the opportunity to educate you can't helpful yourself but to abuse instead. To me that puts you squarely in the category of moron.

Welcome, moron.

In short, I am a moron because I don't act the way you expect me to act. Nice, one, Dan. You are living up to the billing -- a hypocrite to the bitter end. You think you are really teaching me a lesson, aren't you, dude?..

What a sad spectacle.

vicdan wrote:

Dan Rowden wrote:You define an idiot or a moron as anyone that disagree with you, Victor - on almost anything at all.

Nope. Claiming that Protocols are real, or asserting that magnets are infinite sources of energy, is not idiocy because such claims disagree with me, but because they disagree with vast bodies of well-verified evidence.

Yes, such ideas are wrong. That doesn't make the people who express them idiots and morons necessarily. It just makes them ill-informed or perhaps willfully ignorant. Also, though the Protocols are a hoax, it doesn't mean the content doesn't reflect something marginally real. Most conspiracies have some measure of reality underlying them. Agendas do exist; some of them bad, some of then arguably not so bad.

It just so happens that unlike you and so many other 'geniuses' here, i generally take pain to figure out what has been learned on the subject, before i stake a firm position on it. i am usually right because I follow the evidence, not because i simply assume I am.

You follow standard academic lines. That doesn't make you automatically right. It just automatically makes you feel justified in declaring you are. History is littered with academic errors.

I am not surprised you can't tell the difference, Dan. Assuming that you can define your way to a conclusion has rotted your ability to actually think.

Not all your views possess automatic verity, Victor, despite your belief to the contrary. Not all things are that clear.

When given the opportunity to educate you can't helpful yourself but to abuse instead. To me that puts you squarely in the category of moron.

Welcome, moron.

In short, I am a moron because I don't act the way you expect me to act. Nice, one, Dan. You are living up to the billing -- a hypocrite to the bitter end. You think you are really teaching me a lesson, aren't you, dude?..

See, you have no reason for the abuse other than you enjoy it. Good for you, I suppose. However, I'm fast getting weary of it. And it's not just you, btw.

hsandsman,

I, know ashkenazi jews who are genuinely fine guys, they are as ignorant to the reality as the rest of the population. Can't figure vic out though.

Of course there's plenty of great Jews! Frankly, I prefer to deal with them than Christians. SFAIK, no one here hates Jews, or advocates such. When people talk of a Jewish conspiracy, it does not mean more than a small handful of movers and shakers, and yes, they are certainly joined by many gentile movers and shakers, but there's a strong Jewish element, and zionism is all worked into it. And, despite Vic's sarcasm, the concern is genuine that there could be an antisemitic backlash and innocent Jews could suffer.

But I liked your comment about the difference between antisemitism and antizionism.

Victor,

My antisemitism radar goes off when people start talking about zionist conspiracies, when people start denying Holocaust, when people claim that ashkenazim aren't really jews, etc. Faust had explicitly agreed with, and defended, The protocols, while Daybrown concern-trolled about Mossad staging 9/11, without a slightest shred of evidence.

Vic, it's probably hopeless to argue, but it really is true that antizionism is not antisemitism (or rather, antiJewishism). There really are even Jews who are against zionism, in fact more and more. Holocaust deniers may think the numbers are exaggerated, but they usually do acknowledge a lot of Jewish suffering and death surrounding WWII. It's just that, like 911, there's so much more to the picture. You really are just knee jerk in all these responses, and predictable, typical. Why not consider actually investigating why people are considering these things?

What do you mean that Faust defended the protocols? In what way are they faked? The true authorship may be unknown, may have been pinned on the Jews, but the protocols themselves would have died a natural death if they were not so uncannily accurate.
There's a lot of evidence against the CIA and the Mossad.

Are you playing dumb, danny, or do you genuinely not see supporting the Protocols, denying Holocaust, and discerning zionist conspiracy everywhere as instances of anti-semitism?

Don't know about Dan, but I do genuinely say it is not antisemitism, and IF the claims are true, and IF it comes to light then Jews could be sitting ducks for a new wave of antisemitism. Better to investigate and seek the truth, no?

I do NOT see any reason why Israel has a 'right' to exist, except that possession is 9/10ths of the law, and it is no doubt too late to change things now. After all, so many of today's 'legitimate' nations gained their territory by usurpation. So we needn't point fingers but it is a rotten business.

Words mean what people use them to mean. Anti-semitism doesn't mean hating arabs of copts, it means hating jews.

So when Jews loathe the Arabs, they are not antisemitic. But Jews from eastern Europe, who probably have no historic tie to Israel, have a right to invade and kick out the inhabitants?

criticism of Mossad for staging 9/11.

911 was staged, and it took a lot more than the mossad to pull it off.

I know you don't care about jews having the same rights as other peoples. That's exactly the point.

Well, it's pretty sad when Israel has to defend its 'right' which is none other than 'might makes right' by pointing out what we did, or the Spanish did, to the indiginous in this continent, to our everlasting shame. And these UN resolutions postdate those things...we've outlawed torture and a lot of other suchlike activities.

ALEX,

The Medieval mind is a sort of dominating paradigm, and it is the controlling paridigm for many here, many 'geniuses'.

I'm disappointed. I replied to this. You are hiding behind this idea, of which you are enamored. At best it has some validity, but you cannot dismiss everything with it.

Leyla,

I agree with Victor that if Jews want to be an ethnicity, they can legitimately do so. If it is true that most of today's Jews are Ashkenazi and come from a particular region which has a history that included a kingdom and royalty, then of course they are an ethnicity. Arabs existed long before Mohammed, and no doubt there are atheist Arabs, although they had better keep their mouths shut.

Vic:

It's illegal to bew an anti-semite? Where?

Dude, you are the ignoramus to end all ignoramuses... A paradigmatic ignoramus, so to speak.

Historian arrested for holocaust denial
Spanish police arrest writer wanted in Austria
Global Anti-Semitism Review Act of 2004.

like i said. You apply to jews a standard of judgment you do not apply to any other people.

I think I do.

-hsandman-
Crazy world alright..

-tomas-
I've met crazy persons alright, but the world is not crazy.

Nor did this happen in israel in 1948. jews were willing to accept the UN partition, arabs were not -- arabs went to war (the neighboring arab states, mind you, not so much palestinians themselves), trying to push Israel into the sea, and got beaten.

You sure? Arabs went in to war->Push Israel into the sea?

On June 5, 1967, Israel launched a pre-emptive attack against Egypt's airforce fearing an imminent invasion by Egypt.[1] Jordan then attacked western Jerusalem and Netanya.[2][3][4] At the war's end, Israel had gained control of eastern Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights.(Source)

Hmm... where have I heard that word before? Pre emptive?

but you don't proclaim that USA or Australia have no right to exist, liar.

Do you mean that I think that white Australians should leave to go back to countries of origin? Britain, etc? That way not exist? Well, if I saw that Australians have declared war on indigenous people and started doing things like this kind of of shit, then yes I would think and say that.

So far so good.

Try tried unilaterally withdrawing from Gaza in 2005. Everyone knows what this resulted in. The cessation of palestinian terrorism out of gaza was not one of those results.

Guess, the Palestinians have still some rocks left to throw?

And what do you think a NAIL is -- or any solid object for that matter? A nail is 99.999% pure unadulterated vacuum bridged by electromagnetic forces. The electromagnetic force in various contexts is what makes objects appear solid -- it holds atoms together but prevents them from collapsing into each other.

What a magnet does *snip* is a manifestation of the same physical forces which make objects seem solid.

Don't be silly :-S
In modern physics, there are four fundamental interactions (forces): gravitation, electromagnetism, the weak interaction, and the strong interaction.

Magnetic_force
Weak_force
Strong_force
Gravitation

O_o Chemical bondis not magnetism..

What a magnet does *snip* is a manifestation of the same physical forces which make objects seem solid.
Man, how fucking ignorant can you be?.. moron.

O_o

This is sad and pathetic, but also funny in a way.

O_O

yes. See my link above. The same force which makes a magnet hang, also makes all things appear solid.

o_O

Talk about lame attempts at flaming... Dude, how pathetic can you get?

I, am learning I guess...I gave it a go ;-) .

I am just wasting my time on this. :-S

ps.

There is zero evidence of Mossad involvement in 9/11.

You are full of shit.

the idiot of all idiots wrote:Whilst “Semite” denotes a peoples (more vast than the collective known as Jews), Judaism is not. The fact is that Judaism is a religion and, therefore, the question of Jewish emancipation is a theological not political question since the political state is exactly that; political and not religious.

Repeat after me, idiot: jews are an ethnicity. You can be a stark-raving atheist (like me) and still be a jew.

Hey, dickhead, aside from the fact that your comment is non-sequitir is the fact that unique to the ethnicity of Jews is their religion, together with which that particular culture and tradition develops.

Didn't you notice that of the jewish names which are commonly cited as evidence of jews running the world, most aren't religious, don't wear kipah or peysy, and at best attend the temple on major holidays?..

Not really. I haven’t paid much attention to that line of discussion, myself. I‘m thinking perhaps I should. However, back to our discussion, obviously you think the whole world, except for you and your fellow collective Jews, is so vastly ignorant that Jews in particular will be set upon by it as a whole at any moment, despite the fact that the reality is markedly different. Neurosis, Victor.

Atheist jews prove that jews are an ethnicity.

What they prove is a wanton disconnect between the people and the religion with which their culture and traditions developed. Course, there are similarities between fundy Jews and fundy Muslims, like the separation of women and men in public, for instance. And there are similarities between “secular Muslims” and “secular Jews.” They don’t practise the rites and rituals, nor even necessarily believe in God---more agnostic, really. Though, you’ll not find an atheist Muslim anywhere because they don’t confuse nationalism (political), biology (scientific) and religion (hot air) and call it ethnic identity.

I, for example, was never a Muslim. Born in England, raised for the most part in Oz, parents weren’t “practising” Muslims, etc. Jewishness or Muslimness is not something you find in a person’s blood, or DNA. It’s something you find in their belief system. You and many (but by far not all) of your Ashkenazi Jews and many of your fellow Arab brothers share the same matrilineal DNA. So, what distinguishes you ethnically is RELIGIOUS BELIEF and all things subsequent to them, like culture and tradition. As an atheist, you are no more a Jew than an Arabic Muslim who shares the same mtDNA. In fact, some Muslims might indeed be more Jewish than you.

It is the commonalty between Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Oriental Jews which makes the Jew a Jew. The (preceding) qualifiers have to do with perceived national “origin,” and this is precisely where the “Jew” gets interesting. Quite a bag of tricks, that one. Hence, American Jew, Israeli Jew, Ashkenazi Jew, etc., but--hey--Jewishness is the oh-so-vague “ethnicity,” not religion, ain’t it?

in fact, israel was founded by just such jews, the socialist atheist jews

[laughs] You have to be fucking joking! Give me a rational argument for a peoples biological (as opposed to religious) right to a particular portion of land you might just win me over, and…

Humour me, oh venerable one, what’s the difference between a socialist and a socialist Jew?

!

“socialist atheist jews”? No wonder you can’t think with the subject. Fair dinkum, this is too insane to deal with in tit-for-tat exchange. Though, anything more substantial on the subject is likely to fly right over your head...

Dan Rowden wrote:Yes, such ideas are wrong. That doesn't make the people who express them idiots and morons necessarily. It just makes them ill-informed or perhaps willfully ignorant.

As far as i am concerned, willful ignorance is the only true form of idiocy (outside of actual retardation or mental illness of course). Incidental ignorance can be remedied; but if a person willfully ignores evidence, there's no remedying that.

incidentally, this is also why I don't particularly care to be nice to morons like faust or hsandman or daybrown. They choose to be deluded. Simply trying to show them their error is pointless, because they have already had ample access to information showing the error of their views, and they chose to not take it into account.

Not all your views possess automatic verity, Victor, despite your belief to the contrary. Not all things are that clear.

No, not all things are clear. However, as i said, i stake strong position only when they are[ -- when, upon investigating the subject, I conclude that a given view can be affirmed beyond reasonable doubt; such as that Protocols are fake, or that magnets do not produce infinite energy to maintain their magnetic field.

See, you have no reason for the abuse other than you enjoy it. Good for you, I suppose. However, I'm fast getting weary of it. And it's not just you, btw.

Whatever. I think you should be weary of abject idiocy instead. That's certainly one of the very few things that bother me -- the willful choice to ignore facts and reason.

hsandman wrote:Historian arrested for holocaust denial
Spanish police arrest writer wanted in Austria
Global Anti-Semitism Review Act of 2004.

you do realize that not a single one of those links suggest that anti-semitism (as opposed to specifically denyign Holocaust) is illegal, right?..

You don't seem to comprehend too good.

You sure? Arabs went in to war->Push Israel into the sea [in 1948]?

yes, I am sure. it's a mater of historical record.

incidentally, you might not know it,. but Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was involved in an attempt, in 1944 i believe, to kill the entire Tel Aviv by poisoning its water supply with the use of german chemical weapons. The attack was foiled of course. just an interesting aside.

Hmm... where have I heard that word before? Pre emptive?

There is ample historical evidence, including proclamations by Egyptian and Syrian leaders, about their intention to attack Israel in 1967. Israel simply beat them to the punch. Virtually all serious historians agree that arabs were indeed preparing an attack on Israel. Egypt even kicked out the UN peacekeepers from the demilitarized Sinai zone, and started building up forces right on israeli border. That's yet more stark evidence that they were indeed preparing an invasion.

BTW, you can surely tell the difference between 1948 and 1967, right, imbecile?

but you don't proclaim that USA or Australia have no right to exist, liar.

Do you mean that I think that white Australians should leave to go back to countries of origin? Britain, etc? That way not exist? Well, if I saw that Australians have declared war on indigenous people and started doing things like this kind of of shit, then yes I would think and say that.

Are you seriously suggesting that aborigenes in Australia have no major problem due to government abuse?!.

And USA had done to amerindians far worse than israel could ever do to palestinians. Palestinians have their arab 'friends' to blame -- if Israel weren't constantly threatened with destruction, they wouldn't have needed the buffer zones of West Bank and Gaza and Golan.

Guess, the Palestinians have still some rocks left to throw?

You don't know, do you?.. Amazing.

Don't be silly :-S
In modern physics, there are four fundamental interactions (forces): gravitation, electromagnetism, the weak interaction, and the strong interaction.

No, actually. Electromagnetic and weak forces have already been unified into an electroweak force, and there are solid attempts at adding the strong force into the mix.

O_o Chemical bondis not magnetism..

yes, it is. Chemical bonds occur because atoms share electrons (valency). This is an oversimplification of course, but here is the relevant section of the overview i linked, with my notes in brackets:

In the simplest view of a so-called covalent bond, one or more electrons—often a pair as in this example—is drawn into the space between the two atomic nuclei. Here the negatively charged electrons are attracted to the positive charges of both nuclei [electromagnetic attraction which keeps the atoms together], instead of just their own. This overcomes the repulsion between the two positively charged nuclei [electromagnetic repulsion which prevents them from collapsing into each other] of the two atoms and so this overwhelming attraction holds the two nuclei in a relatively fixed configuration of equilibrium [equilibrium between electromagnetic attractiona nd repulsion], even though they will still vibrate at equilibrium position. In summary, covalent bonding involves sharing of electrons in which the positively charged nuclei of two or more atoms simultaneously attract the negatively charged electrons that are being shared [notice all the talk of electromagnetic charges as being the essence of covalent bonds].

Dude, don't take my word for it. Find your nearest physics professor and ask him or her whether a magnet expends energy to hang on a metal wall, or to float in the air above another magnet. let them point out to you how profoundly ignorant you are.

You are full of shit.

You mean the same Mossad which had given US government a warning about 9/11 weeks earlier, which warning got summarily ignored? The same Mossad which actually handed over a list of suspected terrorists before 9/11?

The Mossad involvement angle had been extensively debunked. See here for example.

Anna, until you have looked into the idea of this 'mythology' and the subconscious current of the Medieval Mind and the way it directs perception, you will not understand what I am referring to. Until you understand, with real clarity, what is the foundation in the Mediaval mind of Jew-fear and Jew-hatred, you will not be able to understand what informs the opinions of many who write here, and some of your own. When you DO understand, you will (I submit) be able to distinguish actual and real Jewish or Israeli power and interest from all the strange fabrications and distortions that abound about it. I submit that it is one of strangest and most difficult subjects to unravel because it has roots in an invisible, murky territory: human psychology, mythology and demonology.

Just like the context in which the 'mind' and the heart of the Jew is explored---the Christian Gospels---takes place in an unreal, mythical, loaded, half fantastical but also have real (historically) 'territory', in an analogous 'territory' in the Gentile mind exist these strange people, the Jews. Perception is not necessarily reality, it is perception.

Many of your ideas, if you were to ask me, seem to 'reside' in a similar sort of murky area, which is half real and half unreal.

Good Shabbes and Be Happy Menchen Alles!

Dan Rowden wrote:

vicdan wrote:

Dan Rowden wrote:You define an idiot or a moron as anyone that disagree with you, Victor - on almost anything at all.

Nope. Claiming that Protocols are real, or asserting that magnets are infinite sources of energy, is not idiocy because such claims disagree with me, but because they disagree with vast bodies of well-verified evidence.

Yes, such ideas are wrong. That doesn't make the people who express them idiots and morons necessarily. It just makes them ill-informed or perhaps willfully ignorant. Also, though the Protocols are a hoax, it doesn't mean the content doesn't reflect something marginally real. Most conspiracies have some measure of reality underlying them. Agendas do exist; some of them bad, some of then arguably not so bad.

It just so happens that unlike you and so many other 'geniuses' here, i generally take pain to figure out what has been learned on the subject, before i stake a firm position on it. i am usually right because I follow the evidence, not because i simply assume I am.

You follow standard academic lines. That doesn't make you automatically right. It just automatically makes you feel justified in declaring you are. History is littered with academic errors.

I am not surprised you can't tell the difference, Dan. Assuming that you can define your way to a conclusion has rotted your ability to actually think.

Not all your views possess automatic verity, Victor, despite your belief to the contrary. Not all things are that clear.

When given the opportunity to educate you can't helpful yourself but to abuse instead. To me that puts you squarely in the category of moron.

Welcome, moron.

In short, I am a moron because I don't act the way you expect me to act. Nice, one, Dan. You are living up to the billing -- a hypocrite to the bitter end. You think you are really teaching me a lesson, aren't you, dude?..

See, you have no reason for the abuse other than you enjoy it. Good for you, I suppose. However, I'm fast getting weary of it. And it's not just you, btw.

Dan,

I think your points are good ones. However, so are Victor's. I believe Victor is actually performing a service at the moment. He is pointing out the idiocy -- illogic, babbling, poor comprehension-- of many viewpoints being bandied about on this website. True he is doing it in an abusive manner, but I don't find that detrimental. I happen to find it entertaining.

I hope you, and others, will continue to try to point out the limitations of Victor's world view, and his manner. Doing so can teach people to think. Hopefully he will continue to defend them. The fact that he is able and willing to do this is also a boon to this board. It improves the quality of discussion. I do not see Victor as a troll, as you may be insinuating.

Face it, the general quality of discussion on this board sucks. I have been attempting to challenge the rampant stupidity here and there in my own way. I wish the general quality of poster this board attracts was higher. In lieu of that, for the time Victor is willing to engage here, I think we should be grateful. Again, this does not mean his views or his manner need go unchallenged. On the contrary, fire away. Use real ammo, if you got it.

Leyla Shen wrote:Hey, dickhead, aside from the fact that your comment is non-sequitir is the fact that unique to the ethnicity of Jews is their religion, together with which that particular culture and tradition develops.

Jewish ethicity has been historically tied with religion. That doesn't make them any l;ess of an ethnicity, so they do have the right to polirtical self-determination. Again, Israel is a secular democracy, idiot.

Not really. I haven’t paid much attention to that line of discussion, myself. I‘m thinking perhaps I should. However, back to our discussion, obviously you think the whole world, except for you and your fellow collective Jews, is so vastly ignorant that Jews in particular will be set upon by it as a whole at any moment, despite the fact that the reality is markedly different. Neurosis, Victor.

Ah, when you have no evidence, make shit up... Seems to be a pattern around here.

You lie like a rug.

What they prove is a wanton disconnect between the people and the religion with which their culture and traditions developed. Course, there are similarities between fundy Jews and fundy Muslims, like the separation of women and men in public, for instance. And there are similarities between “secular Muslims” and “secular Jews.” They don’t practise the rites and rituals, nor even necessarily believe in God---more agnostic, really. Though, you’ll not find an atheist Muslim anywhere because they don’t confuse nationalism (political), biology (scientific) and religion (hot air) and call it ethnic identity.

Wow. So you have no clue, and persist in it...

Who are ethnic jews?

I, for example, was never a Muslim. Born in England, raised for the most part in Oz, parents weren’t “practising” Muslims, etc. Jewishness or Muslimness is not something you find in a person’s blood, or DNA. It’s something you find in their belief system. You and many (but by far not all) of your Ashkenazi Jews and many of your fellow Arab brothers share the same matrilineal DNA. So, what distinguishes you ethnically is RELIGIOUS BELIEF and all things subsequent to them, like culture and tradition.

no more than germans and swedes (who are different ethnicities yet share the same ancestry) are distinguished purely by their language.

You do realize that different peoples can be related, right?.. Yes, both jews and arabs are semitic peoples -- just as both french and slavs are indo-european peoples.

As an atheist, you are no more a Jew

Wonder of wonders, why did israel allow me to commit aliyah and gave me instant citizenship?.. I never in my life professed judaism, and i wasn't even asked anything of the sort. What mattered to israel was where i am ethnically jewish -- which I am, by maternal line.

[laughs] You have to be fucking joking! Give me a rational argument for a peoples biological (as opposed to religious) right to a particular portion of land you might just win me over, and…

Erm, who said anything about a biological right? Are you feeling OK?

And if your problem is with the peoples' right to self-determination, take that up with UN.

Humour me, oh venerable one, what’s the difference between a socialist and a socialist Jew?

The latter is a subset of the former. There were socialist russians, socialist germans -- and socialist jews. Socialist jews were the ones who basically founded israel, both via pre-partition migration, and politically in the first couple of decades of Israel's existence. They were overwhelmingly atheists and socialists, except that instead of trying to create the 'dictatorship of the proletariat', they chose to simply live as socialists -- in socialist communes, the kibbutzim. Incidentally, AFAIK it's the only quasi-anarcho-socialist experiment in the world whch has worked on any sort of non-trivial scale. Kibbutzniks are the one only ones in the world who made a sort of syndicalism work.

“socialist atheist jews”? No wonder you can’t think with the subject. Fair dinkum, this is too insane to deal with in tit-for-tat exchange. Though, anything more substantial on the subject is likely to fly right over your head...

'Fair dinkum'? Ah, I see, you are an australian... That explains it. New worlders have no clue about ethnicity.

Jews are an ethncity, you silly little fool (see my Wiki link above). Always have been -- even jewish religious law specifies the property of being jewish as not exclusively dependent on one's religion. Your ignorance of european ethnic politics may explain your lack of comprehension, but it doesn't excuse it.

I have seen the same problem with native-born americans -- they tend to not have a clue about ethnicity, qwhat it means, and the role it plays.

Jews are a people, an ethnic group.

Carl wrote:I do not see Victor as a troll, as you may be insinuating.

[laughs] He's a piece of work, alright, but I wouldn't call him a troll, yet. Much more interesting to debate with than Alex Jacob, who was fucking hopeless. Chochem was pretty good. But Victor, with his little sleight of hand word games...

Dan is right about Victor here, though:

I doubt you're aware of it but you formulate each and every post in such a way as to be able to reach a conclusion that the person you are arguing with is an idiot or a moron.

~

L: Hey, dickhead, aside from the fact that your comment is non-sequitir is the fact that unique to the ethnicity of Jews is their religion, together with which that particular culture and tradition develops.

the magician wrote:Jewish ethicity has been historically tied with religion.

Mm-hm. So, "historically tied with religion" is different to religious how, exactly?

That doesn't make them any l;ess of an ethnicity,

That's not my argument, oh proficient fashioner of ultra-flammable straw men.

...so they do have the right to polirtical self-determination. Again, Israel is a secular democracy, idiot.

Yes, Israel is a secular democracy in the same way that the Chief Rabbinate (who decides immigration law, no less) is an atheist Jew when it comes to state policy. It seems Jews are at the forefront of all sorts of innovative ideas. Take the idea of a secular democracy with a Chief Rabbinate who decides the country's citizenship based on religious texts, for example. I mean, that has to be a first, "AFAIK."


Let's see how this one goes...