GENIUS FORUMS

The Final Summation:

There are no Answers. There are only Choices.

There is but One Consciousness, of which every mind is entangled, and from which every mind draws the Information to manifest its own Reality.

Consciousness is Information. The Mind is the Observer of Information. We all share the very same Consciousness but perceive from our own unique perspective.
Since every mind has its own unique perspective it will perceive in its own unique way. No two minds will ever completely agree on everything.

Information is Thought. The Observer/Mind both perceives and creates the information the One Consciousness contains.

The essence of Reality is Thought. Thought is the "emptiness" at the heart of all matter.
The stone does not exist outside the mind, or inside the mind. The stone does not exist at all. Only the information contained in consciousness of thought about a stone exists.
The stone is an illusion.

We do not exist in Reality. Reality exists in our minds.
Every mind will choose its own answers and create its own illusions of Reality.
Any one illusion is just as good, and just as true as any other.
Every Mind that is "Enlightened" is enlightened within its own beliefs. The enlightened mind completes its own illusion.

When one surrenders the ego and recognizes its own solipsism, then it will recognize its own Reality for what it is; just one illusion out of infinite illusions.
Only then will it realize there are no answers. There are only choices.



cckeiser

Hmmm, 10 views and no replies!?

Can I at least get an "Amen!" ;o)

Greetings all,

I found this forum quite by accident. As usual I was looking for something else. Saw the topic on "Enlightenment" and just had to dive in! ;o)

Found this in a cartoon the other week:
"Ok, so you're enlightened? How's that working out for you?"

Now there's a deep philosophical question to ponder!

Do No Harm

Chuck

Your opening post was typical postmodernist rehash, riddled with all the usual contradictions and sloppy thinking. We've all heard the speil a thousand times before.

An example of a contradiction in your post was:

There are no Answers. There are only Choices.

From which you then to proceeded to give us a series of firmly-stated Answers.

There are many other contradictions of this type in your post, but I really can't be bothered going through them all.

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DavidQuinn000 wrote:Your opening post was typical postmodernist rehash, riddled with all the usual contradictions and sloppy thinking. We've all heard the speil a thousand times before.

An example of a contradiction in your post was:

There are no Answers. There are only Choices.

From which you then to proceeded to give us a series of firmly-stated Answers.

There are many other contradictions of this type in your post, but I really can't be bothered going through them all.

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Hi David,

Since you said you couldn't be bothered, I considered not bothering myself, but decided to give it a shot anyway. Who knows, maybe someone else who care to bother. ;o)

If I tried just posting: There are no Answers. There are only Choices. Few if any would ever get it on that statement alone and it would then be necessary to explain how I came to that conclusion.
So what followed was a very brief snapshot of the path I followed to arrive at that conclusion. If you would like the whole "nine yards" you will have to read my Poly-Solipsism philosophy which is also "typical postmodernist rehash, riddled with all the usual contradictions and sloppy thinking." I make no excuses for it, it is what it is because I write for "The Barmaid" and not for the "Philosophy Professor."

Yeah, that's the stuff you have heard a thousands times before. I guess just about anyone searching for answers, and sticking their heads down every philosophical rabbit hole, has pretty much heard the same things a thousands times themselves. But there is a difference between hearing it and realizing it.

The part I would be surprised to hear you have heard a thousands times before is at the very end where I summerize:

Any one illusion is just as good, and just as true, as any other.
Every Mind that is "Enlightened" is enlightened within its own beliefs. The enlightened mind completes its own illusion.
When one surrenders the ego and recognizes its own solipsism, then it will recognize its own Reality for what it is; just one illusion out of infinite illusions.
Only then will it realize there are no answers. There are only choices.

As far as I know, I'm the only one who has written that conclusion.
But there in lies the self-contradiction; which is its insanity, but also its sublime beauty.
If there are no answers, and there are only choices, then this "answer" is also only a choice and is no more true, and no less true than any other choice. There are no answers. There are only choices, falls victim to itself!
But just because it's insane doesn't mean it's not true! ;o)

cckeiser wrote:Any one illusion is just as good, and just as true as any other.

In that case, according to you, it's equally true that one illusion is superior and more true than another.

Every Mind that is "Enlightened" is enlightened within its own beliefs.

According to you, it is equally true that some minds are absolutely enlightened, and other minds are unenlightened even though those unenlightened minds might believe otherwise.

The enlightened mind completes its own illusion.

It is equally true, according to you, that this is not the case.

There are no answers. There are only choices.

According to you, it is equally true that there are answers, and there are no choices.

So do you see how your ideas are a waste of time?

[Edit: And yes, we've had at least dozens and perhaps more than a hundred people come through here with the same ideas that you express here.]

cckeiser wrote:
Any one illusion is just as good, and just as true as any other.

In that case, according to you, it's equally true that one illusion is superior and more true than another.

Yeah, and that is just what we see with most religious and scientific dogma. They believe their own illusions are really superior and more true than any other and anyone who also buys into the same illusion believes it as well. "My dogma is greater than your dogma!"
If you buy into it, than yes, what you believe is superior and more true than what anyone else believes. I think that is pretty much what all the fuss is about right now.
I am just as guilty as I also believe my illusion is a superior illusion. It's just that I know that everything I believe is an illusion of my own mind and no more or less true than what anyone else believes. There really is a great view from my perspective! ;o)

cckeiser wrote:
Every Mind that is "Enlightened" is enlightened within its own beliefs.

In According to you, it is equally true that some minds are absolutely enlightened, and other minds are unenlightened even though those unenlightened minds might believe otherwise.

Absolutely!

cckeiser wrote:
The enlightened mind completes its own illusion.

In It is equally true, according to you, that this is not the case.

By jove, I think you got it! ;o)
cckeiser wrote:
There are no answers. There are only choices.

According to you, it is equally true that there are answers, and there are no choices.

Unfortunately, in some illusions that is the case. I think most Fundamentalist really believe there is but one truth and there are no choices. They even want to rid the world of the concept of Free Will.

So do you see how your ideas are a waste of time?

Sorry, but no I don't. If I can save but one soul from fundamentalist dogma, it will be time well spent.
Besides, we cannot waste time. Time will run its course no matter what we do. All we can do is use the time we are allotted. I like what I do. It gives me great happiness to share my insights with others still searching. Sometimes I even make a few new friends who share my illusions.
That's why I'm here.

Edit: And yes, we've had at least dozens and perhaps more than a hundred people come through here with the same ideas that you express here.

I don't wish to be a bother, but if you could point one or two out to me I would be grateful. I am always on the lookout for another kindred spirit.

Thanks

Chuck

cckeiser wrote: I don't wish to be a bother, but if you could point one or two out to me I would be grateful. I am always on the lookout for another kindred spirit.

I'm sure another will show up on this forum in the next week or two with the same ideas as yourself. They are everywhere.

The problem with your thinking is that whatever you think is true, you hold the opposite to be equally true.

This means that whatever you say is pointless.

If you say, "all beliefs are equally true" it means that it is equally true that beliefs are not equally true. In that case a person might as well flip a coin as to which position they are to take, since it doesn't matter what they believe.

There are no answers. There are only choices.

According to you, it is equally true that there are answers, and there are no choices.

Unfortunately, in some illusions that is the case.

I think most Fundamentalist really believe there is but one truth and there are no choices. They even want to rid the world of the concept of Free Will.

I don't know why you say "unfortunately" because according to you, the beliefs of fundamentalists are not less true than your own.

You are being hypocritical.

If I can save but one soul from fundamentalist dogma, it will be time well spent.

Since their beliefs are not less true than your own, why are you trying to change them?

Kevin,

I'm sure another will show up on this forum in the next week or two with the same ideas as yourself. They are everywhere.

We just had one, not two days ago. What was his name again? Ashton?

I'm curious if it's possible to work from solid foundations to change someone's beliefs from the most incomprehensible weird gibberish into something coherent. In the interest of philosophy, let's see if I can get exactly one item accepted as a truth (and thereby show that some things must be false, and that the premise of cckeiser's nonsense is also false).

cckeiser:

There is a very obscure principle buried deep in the annals of history, known to less than one in a thousand philosophers, and therefore less than one in three hundred million people.* Its consequences, however, permeate our entire culture; which is why, when you performed the completely admirable task of shaking off the shackles of our crumbling civilization, you unfortunately threw this principle out as well. I speak of nothing less than "The Principle of Non-Contradiction". This principle implies that if a single statement is simultaneously held to be both true and false, absolutely any other statement may also be found to be both true and false.

The consequence of this is that the principle has actually come to be known by two names; the first I have already given. In this case, the principle is inviolate: a person cannot use his reason if he allows any statement both truth and falsity.

The other name is for people who do not consider this principle inviolate. They call it: "I'm a Complete and Utter Retard And Nothing I Say Makes Any Logical Sense". People who call it this name may not knowingly refer to it thus, but every time they decide to speak, each and every word they say can be assumed to be merely a repetition of the principle's secondary title.

There are applications of the principle. In the first scenario, where I hold the principle inviolate, I can confidently assert that no invisible pink unicorns exist, because I know that invisibility and pinkness are mutually exclusive qualities. The statement showed internal contradictions, and therefore violated the principle of non-contradiction. Conversely, I'm a Complete and Utter Retard and Nothing I Say Makes any Logical Sense.

Again, I may extend this principle to simple laws of identity, and infer that A will always equal A; or I can extend it to the problem of existence and intuit that existence cannot be absolutely nothing. Contrariwise, I'm a Complete and Utter Retard and Nothing I Say Makes any Logical Sense.

I hope the experience of reading this has been enlightening.

*statistics may vary, but probably not by much

My, my, yes it has been enlightening. Now I am wondering if there is anyone on this forum who is even old enough to vote?

The problem with "Truism" is they are not true. For the most part they are cleaver concepts conceived by the minds of men deceived by their own illusions of Realism who then expect that "The Answers" to "Life, the Universe and Everything" must be logical, unfalsifiable, and run with clockwork correctness. I'm afraid this is not the case. Reality if filled with contradictions and paradoxes and rife with illogical inconsistencies.
We have a addiction to our Truism and refuse to abandon them even when we know they have led us down a dead end. But rather than abandon them we keep them sanctified and continue to ram our heads against the barrier they have lead us into.
The definition of "Stupidity" is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different conclusion.
We have built an edifice to stupidity with our Truism!

Well, I can see if I'm going to save your sorry asphalts, it is going to require a lot more time and energy than I had anticipated.
I will need to abandoned the "Crash Course" and take you one small step at a time down the rabbit hole to realization.

So welcome to "Complete and Utter Retard" 101.
Class is now in session.

The very first think we must do is rid our minds of all our preconceived illusions.
We will use Rene' Descartes method of the Tabula Rasa to accomplish this fundamental task.
Simply move everything you believe to be true to one side of the ledger, and only allow the things that you know without a doubt can be proved to be true to the Tabula Rasa side of the ledger.

If you can do this honestly and without prejudice you should only be able to move one idem onto the Rasa: your own mind.
Everything else you believe cannot be proven to actually exist or even be true and is therefore only a supposition of your own mind.

cckeiser:

My, my, yes it has been enlightening. Now I am wondering if there is anyone on this forum who is even old enough to vote?

Of course I can't vote, for I am but a wee lass of 12 years old.

Reality if filled with contradictions and paradoxes and rife with illogical inconsistencies.

If reality only includes your mind, then yes, I have to agree.

So welcome to "Complete and Utter Retard" 101.

The University certainly hired the right professor for this class.

We will use Rene' Descartes method of the Tabula Rasa to accomplish this fundamental task.

Should I remember these names and terms? They seem awfully confusing.

If you can do this honestly and without prejudice you should only be able to move one idem onto the Rasa: your own mind.
Everything else you believe cannot be proven to actually exist or even be true and is therefore only a supposition of your own mind.

Are you sure this is what Descartes was trying to say, that nothing can be true and nothing exists other than the mind? What do you think his opinion might be on something like mathematics, or natural science?

cckeiser (Chuck?) wrote:

The very first think we must do is rid our minds of all our preconceived illusions.
We will use Rene' Descartes method of the Tabula Rasa to accomplish this fundamental task.
Simply move everything you believe to be true to one side of the ledger, and only allow the things that you know without a doubt can be proved to be true to the Tabula Rasa side of the ledger.

If you can do this honestly and without prejudice you should only be able to move one idem onto the Rasa: your own mind.
Everything else you believe cannot be proven to actually exist or even be true and is therefore only a supposition of your own mind.

I agree with this process. Seeking what is absolutely certain in life is a critical part of becoming enlightened and wise. And luckily, there are many things which we can become absolutely certain about. For example:

- That experiences are happening and that Reality/Nature/Tao is not nothing whatsoever.

- That every experience is finite in nature (meaning that no experience can ever constitute the Totality of all there is).

- That the Totality itself is formless and beyond life and death.

- That every experience is a product of causes.

- That A=A.

And so on. These are all truths which are beyond the powers of Descarte's demon is challenge or undermine.

As for your conclusion that the existence of "our mind" is beyond all doubt, there are some problems. For example, we have no way of knowing it if it really is "our" mind. It could easily be someone else's mind which is currently deluding itself with the idea that it "our" mind. Or the mind in question could easily be an impersonal computer simulation which has been programmed with the illusion that it is "our" mind. And it might not be a mind at all, but something else.

It all depends on how you want to conceive of these things.

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