GENIUS FORUMS

This passage about Somali culture circa 1935 from the book "Out of Africa" struck me as an authentic look into a key dynamic between women and men:
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Their own clothes played a tremendous part in their lives, which was no wonder, since to them they were all at once material of war, booty of war, and symbols of victory, like conquered banners. Their husband, the Somali, is abstinent by nature, indifferent to food and drink and to personal comfort, hard and spare as the country he comes from: woman is his luxury. For her he is insatiably covetous, she is to him the supreme good of life: horses, camels, and stock may come in and be desirable, too, but they can never outweigh the wives. The Somali women encourage their men in both inclinations of their nature. They scorn softness in a man with much cruelty; and with great personal sacrifices they hold up their own price. These women cannot acquire a pair of slippers in any possible way except through a man, they cannot own themselves but must needs belong to some male, to a father, a brother, or a husband, but they are still the one supreme prize of life. It is a surprising thing, and to the honor of both parties, what amounts of silks, gold, amber, and coral the Somali women get out of their men. At the end of the long, strenuous trading safaris, the hardships, risks, strategems, and endurances were all turned into female apparel. The young girls who had no men to squeeze, in their little tent-like house were making the most of their pretty hair and looking forward to the time when they should be conquering the conqueror, and extorting from the extortioner.
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Also kind of interesting to contemplate about how this all affects the current state of affairs in the Horn of Africa.

reedsch wrote:This passage about Somali culture circa 1935 from the book "Out of Africa" struck me as an authentic look into a key dynamic between women and men:
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...
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Also kind of interesting to contemplate about how this all affects the current state of affairs in the Horn of Africa.

Actually, it interests me that a lot of the most direct/honest information on men and women comes out of anthropological studies of Africa. As if people see it when the people involved are "the other" but refuse to see it in themselves. I found this a lot in my "gender studies" class on Africa last semester.

Interesting to consider what would happen if the women WERE independent and able to procure the goodies on their own. Would the men scale down their own rapaciousness? Or would it just raise the "price"?

See "supply and demand in the mating market"
http://www.online-dating-rights.com/blo ... owentry=45

Such is why women have striven to become the most attractive "merchandise" for men - prettiest, best cook, etc. Once women, in sufficient quantitiy, realize they don't need men, they will be able to turn more away from prioritiorizing becoming good merchandise, and turn more to intrinsic goals in life.

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:Once women, in sufficient quantitiy, realize they don't need men, they will be able to turn more away from prioritiorizing becoming good merchandise, and turn more to intrinsic goals in life.

And that my little buttercup is one theory why men grabbed control over the means of production in the first place. Not being needed means we don't get laid as much, which from a guy perspective is not a good thing.

And which "intrinsic goals" might those be?

I don't see many men running around trying to think of ways to "not need women" (life-like inflatable Suzy dolls aside). Quite the opposite, it seems we can't get enough of them.

I have also never heard men make a clearly stated goal of removing women from the reproductive equation. But you have to imagine that turnabout on this particular issue is fair play. And since men are the vast majority of scientists and engineers, you've been warned ;-)

I have also never heard men make a clearly stated goal of removing women from the reproductive equation. But you have to imagine that turnabout on this particular issue is fair play. And since men are the vast majority of scientists and engineers, you've been warned ;-)

Kevin Solway envisioned it...see Matriarchy and Patriarchy, pg. 2, top post. Turned out to be an interesting discussion.

passthrough wrote: Kevin Solway envisioned it...see Matriarchy and Patriarchy, pg. 2, top post. Turned out to be an interesting discussion.

Scientifically all kinds of things are possible. But I had never seen the idea of male reproductive independence bandied about as part of a political agenda or a "liberation" philosophy...until I read Kevin's post. Women's reproductive independence from men is a fringe but not altogether uncommon thread in modern feminism. This in addition to it being a current fact, a woman can be artificially inseminated today but a man cannot currently raise an egg to full-term gestation outside a womb, therefore the feminist scenario is far more realistic.