GENIUS FORUMS

Kevin wrote:

Consciousness is hellish and women are a holiday to men - a holiday from the pain of consciousness.

Can anyone explain to me the nature of the pain of consciousness? I want to know all about it.

Personally, I think responsibility is one source of the pain. If you think about it, consciousness is always punished where unconsciousness would have been more or less forgiven. Sentences for premeditated crimes are always worse than sentences for crimes committed accidentally. This reflects the general attitude towards conscious people and how they're always held more responsible than unconscious people.

So that's one pain I'm aware of, but are there others?

I thought Kevin was talking about awareness of rebirth. Delusions are seeping in, one becomes aware of it, recalls the anguish of hellish states, and yet hasn't really got the oomph to put one's foot down.

It is trying to find rest where there is none.

Buying the best sharpest zen rocks in the market used to tear self but instead filing them dull, mostly on every aspect, all smooth and round, and then slowly bashing with the dull equipment.

The moment one should know better is too late. The pain is luxury one seeks. It is akin to having a whip in a monastery and beating self into shreds for being tainted.

consciousness pain is depression.

Matt Gregory wrote:Kevin wrote:

Consciousness is hellish and women are a holiday to men - a holiday from the pain of consciousness.

Can anyone explain to me the nature of the pain of consciousness?

I think such pain is caused by the absence of a pacifier.

a) Why is it painful to not have a pacifier?

I guess we were designed by natural selection to feel very stressed out when we are not engaging with other people in a way that supports the reproduction of our genes. Anything that pacifies, does so I think because it's a social lubricant that helps lead to the reproductive act, which is the ultimate pacifier.

And b) Why does a pacifier cause unconsciousness?

In a sense, a pacifier causes one to be conscious of the sensation that the pacifier causes. If we do a drug for instance, we will be conscious of the sensation that it gives us. This is like one big loud noise which drowns out the quieter more complicated noises, which of course are related less directly to the reproductive act - and thus give more pain.

Personally, I think responsibility is one source of the pain.

If you think about it, consciousness is always punished where unconsciousness would have been more or less forgiven. Sentences for premeditated crimes are always worse than sentences for crimes committed accidentally. This reflects the general attitude towards conscious people and how they're always held more responsible than unconscious people.

That's an interesting point. I think crimes committed with premeditation often inflict more damage than spontaneous, unconscious ones. The herd can relate more to the psychology of the later type of criminal, whereas the former seems very alien to most people.

Consciousness pain - Is there any other pain which you're aware of?

Try this....

When conciousness breaks the 0/1 dual state thoughts exists. If thoughts never get fed by interest then the particles fall back to a 0/1 state and awareness dies. Therefore we strive to keep ourselves entertained, and have developed a concious pain through evolution to maintain our interest, so that our conciousness does not die. we do not want to be the Tiger pacing up and down in its cage.

And then there is the issue of hierarchy, status, class, pecking order, etc.

I think those who appear to strive for, or even occupy higher to the highest rungs of status in particular cliques, social circles or cultures at large, generally aren't conscious of the fact that they are preoccupied with establishing or maintaining a vague sense of superiority, pride and comfort by always 'outdoing' others and/or keeping others oppressed.

How much human behavior is driven by envy, jealousy and feelings of rejection and inferiority? Obviously such emotions are significant forms of psychological pain, and the way we pacify this pain is by striving to attain that which makes the pain go away - maybe it's through drink, religion, shallow sexualized socializing, flaky beliefs, deprecating and underestimating others, aggrandizing and over estimating oneself, buying an expensive home, a car, fancy clothes, getting a degree, becoming a psychiatrist, dishing out insults, becoming violent, etc.

What makes consciousness so hellish is that one is actually aware of all of the above, one has distinguished all of the lower tendencies, and because one is aware of it all, one can only suffer somewhat helplessly. At this point, one's conscience vows to become ruler, struggling to impose itself as a monarchy of control over the beastly craven demands of the adrenal gland.

Kelly Jones wrote:I thought Kevin was talking about awareness of rebirth. Delusions are seeping in, one becomes aware of it, recalls the anguish of hellish states, and yet hasn't really got the oomph to put one's foot down.

You mean slipping into sexual desire even though you know you're going to pay for it later? There is that, but the way I read it, Kevin was making a general statement about pain stating that consciousness creates pain all the time and that the man seeks out woman to get relief from the rest of his life.

Matt Gregory wrote:So that's one pain I'm aware of, but are there others?

The pain is caused simply by being conscious of having a self, for then you are conscious of lacking things (or having things), and of being dependent on things, and of lacking power, and of being vulnerable and fragile, etc.

It is the "knowledge" that Adam gained that caused his fall, in the story of the garden of Eden - the knowledge of good and evil, self and other, etc.

Kevin Solway wrote:The pain is caused simply by being conscious of having a self, for then you are conscious of lacking things (or having things), and of being dependent on things, and of lacking power, and of being vulnerable and fragile, etc.

But an enlightened person is not in pain, yet is still conscious.

Consciousness and the pain thereof obviously means different things to different people...the pain of which defaults to one's awareness that one has a problem and not really knowing exactly what it is or how to overcome it. Of all the examples given, the one that stands out as the most definitive is Pincho's analogy:

When conciousness breaks the 0/1 dual state thoughts exists. If thoughts never get fed by interest then the particles fall back to a 0/1 state and awareness dies. Therefore we strive to keep ourselves entertained, and have developed a concious pain through evolution to maintain our interest, so that our conciousness does not die. we do not want to be the Tiger pacing up and down in its cage.

If you are amenable Pincho, I would like to hear more of your idea here.

passthrough wrote:Consciousness and the pain thereof obviously means different things to different people...the pain of which defaults to one's awareness that one has a problem and not really knowing exactly what it is or how to overcome it. Of all the examples given, the one that stands out as the most definitive is Pincho's analogy:

When conciousness breaks the 0/1 dual state thoughts exists. If thoughts never get fed by interest then the particles fall back to a 0/1 state and awareness dies. Therefore we strive to keep ourselves entertained, and have developed a concious pain through evolution to maintain our interest, so that our conciousness does not die. we do not want to be the Tiger pacing up and down in its cage.

If you are amenable Pincho, I would like to hear more of your idea here.

Can't add to it without going off topic. I'll just put a link to the rest of it..

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3494

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:

Kevin Solway wrote:The pain is caused simply by being conscious of having a self, for then you are conscious of lacking things (or having things), and of being dependent on things, and of lacking power, and of being vulnerable and fragile, etc.

But an enlightened person is not in pain, yet is still conscious.

Yes, but this person would have to be 100% conscious, all the time. Most men are only about five to ten percent conscious. And so they suffer.

They are conscious enough to be aware of their self, but not enough to get to the essence of it.

Kevin Solway wrote:

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:

Kevin Solway wrote:The pain is caused simply by being conscious of having a self, for then you are conscious of lacking things (or having things), and of being dependent on things, and of lacking power, and of being vulnerable and fragile, etc.

But an enlightened person is not in pain, yet is still conscious.

Yes, but this person would have to be 100% conscious, all the time. Most men are only about five to ten percent conscious. And so they suffer.

They are conscious enough to be aware of their self, but not enough to get to the essence of it.

I've been awake for 3 days. How conscious is that?

Me:

Consciousness pain - Is there any other pain which you're aware of?

It's the only pain there is.

Matt Gregory wrote:Can anyone explain to me the nature of the pain of consciousness? I want to know all about it.

Can you reassure me this was a rhetorical question or one designed to incite comment. You're not really asking to have your entire 10 year history with Genius and thought explained to you?

Also, pain of consciousness may stem from illogical or logical thinking, your own and/or others.

Dan Rowden wrote:

Matt Gregory wrote:Can anyone explain to me the nature of the pain of consciousness? I want to know all about it.

Can you reassure me this was a rhetorical question or one designed to incite comment. You're not really asking to have your entire 10 year history with Genius and thought explained to you?

I don't consider my time on Genius to have been painful. Well, maybe in the beginning when it was all intimidating and everything, but, other than that, I don't really look at it that way. I was actually kind of surprised by Kevin's answer. I never looked at it quite in that way before. I wasn't aware of the significance of the fall of Adam and Eve, either. I know I've probably seen it discussed on here before, but this forum moves too fast for me to absorb everything on it. I have my own preoccupations to deal with most of the time.

But yeah, I'll admit it was designed to incite comment. But what's wrong with that? It wasn't insincere or anything. I know, what it is: you probably find exaggerated expressions of modesty distasteful, but I really had no idea where to start on the "pain of consciousness". When I hear the word "consciousness" I think of being awake. So I asked myself, "When I'm awake, am I in pain?" No, I'm not in any pain. So, I was totally stuck and followed my usual rule that I'd rather look stupid once than be ignorant forever. Maybe you don't like that rule. I know it has its flaws, but that's how I generally approach things.

So was that reassuring? I know we've had our share of miscommunications in the past, Dan, because I admit I'm not careful enough when I write to you and the things I say don't come across the way I thought they would have, so, I think I look dumber than I really am. I'm just a lazy writer and I don't bother to correct misunderstandings. Trying to defend oneself just makes it worse anyway most of the time. I'm making an exception for today, though, but that's it. I've been considered dumb my whole life, so I'm used to it. My genius may not be great, but it's far enough out in the stratosphere that even exceptional people can't grasp it. I'm sure you can relate.

[Theme music for this post: Stratosfear by Tangerine Dream]

Matt Gregory wrote:

Dan Rowden wrote:

Matt Gregory wrote:Can anyone explain to me the nature of the pain of consciousness? I want to know all about it.

Can you reassure me this was a rhetorical question or one designed to incite comment. You're not really asking to have your entire 10 year history with Genius and thought explained to you?

I don't consider my time on Genius to have been painful. Well, maybe in the beginning when it was all intimidating and everything, but, other than that, I don't really look at it that way.

Well, yeah, it was the earlier years that I was thinking of. It just seemed like an odd question given your experience.

But yeah, I'll admit it was designed to incite comment. But what's wrong with that?

Nothing at all. Carry on.

It wasn't insincere or anything.

I wasn't thinking that. The question just surprised me is all. No biggie.

I know, what it is: you probably find exaggerated expressions of modesty distasteful,

I wasn't thinking in those terms either, but now you mention it, yes, I would find it a tad distasteful.

but I really had no idea where to start on the "pain of consciousness". When I hear the word "consciousness" I think of being awake. So I asked myself, "When I'm awake, am I in pain?" No, I'm not in any pain. So, I was totally stuck and followed my usual rule that I'd rather look stupid once than be ignorant forever. Maybe you don't like that rule. I know it has its flaws, but that's how I generally approach things.

Ok. I think the initial pains of philosophical wakefulness is a pretty obvious thing, but the pain of consciousness per se, which the average man feels often, but probably not often or deeply enough, is probably less obvious. I have made the point of women being a holiday from consciousness myself in the past, but I never couched in terms of the "pain" factor. I've always used - from memory (which has failed me before now) - "burden" to characterise things. But then, burdens are a form of pain too. I'll say more about this later. I have some admin burdens to meet for now. It's a real pain!

[T]o have a self, to be a self, is the greatest concession, an infinite concession, given to man, but it is also eternity's claim upon him. -Kierkegaard

Dan Rowden wrote:It just seemed like an odd question given your experience.

I have a lot of blind spots that I need to clean up, just little obvious connections I need to make, but I just don't feel like doing it. Having this computer in my apartment totally ruins any chance I have of getting it done. I've recently been going to the library for a couple hours a day. I think I'm going to continue doing that because at least it forces me to be without my usual comforts so I can think a little bit. Thinking is a lot a work and can't be done casually.

Kevin Solway wrote:The pain is caused simply by being conscious of having a self.

hm interesting. Does David or Dan disagree with this?