GENIUS FORUMS

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Tomas,

So what are all those geometric shapes and symbols supposed to tell you anyway? Do you realize that astrology is pseudoscience?

Faust wrote:

Iowa is full of intellectual imbeciles.

AKA: Evangelicals.

astro-naut
astro-logic
pseudo-science

I like your broad brushstrokes! Ever operate a swather?

Bill Clinton houses are most unique - half empty or half-full?

Faust:
Intellectual imbeciles?

Ryan:
Ev-angel-ic-als (angelic?)

Have either of you spent some time in Iowa, outside of the mainstream news bits (big cities)?


ps- I like the both of you, but you two need to get out on your own. Faust may have an alibi, he's still somewhat young, and perhaps his parents don't mind him too much, maybe they have the financial means to allow you a free lunch etc. Mine didn't and I was happy to depart at 15-1/2.

(August 26, 1913) The Virgo - My dad has been dead for almost 16 years now, my personal dislike of him has mellowed over the years, especially when his health began to rob him of the youthful vigor (he ran circles around me as far as physical work) and we had to care for him till the day he died in our home. I "forced" our children to help feed him, bathe, wipe his ass, change his diapers, in and out of bed, simple conversations - maybe they'll thank me some day when they see me "drooling in a wheelchair" unable to care for myself. The girlfriend, is of the petite variety, and won't be physically-able to keep me from bouncing off the walls, hitting the floor :-/

My two brothers and sister (selfishly) had their own lives and missed out on his "twilight's last gleamings" when his memory began to break down...

November 2, 1923) The Scorpio - Now it's my mom's journey down the physical deterioration road, and the mind is beginning to fail her at age-84... Already in diapers...


My dad (as Faust would say) would be the intellectual imbecile.

My mom (as Ryan would say) would be the evangelical.


Remember this kiddies, time flies when your having fun. Enjoy it while you have your health and mind... the sunset draws nigh



Tomas (the tank)
Prince of Jerusalem
16 Degree
Scottish Rite Free Mason

.

The generally accepted concept of "conspiracy" in 911 is wrong. There was no need for the official CIA or Mossad to be informed; Bush didnt even have to know. Nor all of the Neocons, altho certainly some had a hand in it. The Huey P. Long school of government rules apply:
1- Dont ever say anything in writing, much less email.
2- Dont ever say over the phone what you can say in person.
3- Dont ever speak when you can nod.
4- Dont ever nod when you can smile.

So, proving just who ordered what when is impossible. Many of those contributing to the effort didnt know what the effort really was, and were merely following orders. Others turned a blind eye, just as Cllinton did to what was going on at the Mina airport. You dont survive in Washington knowing stuff you should not. Just ask Vince Foster.

Gordon Ross shows us how the explosives in the Twin Towers were planted in the elevator shafts over a period of months. There was no need for more than a few demolitions experts. Which the CIA and Mossad has always had. However, their backgrounds were more military, so in some respects they over did it.

They should not, for instance, have planted charges on egzactly every 3rd floor so that the supporting beams of the towers all broke up into 30 foot sections. Any kind of accidental collapse would have resulted in a wide range of lengths of structural members.

But it is classic group think to simplify patterns. Likewise, the lawyers who run the USA had a problem. There was a good case to be made for invading Iraq to seize control of the oil; but that was too complex to sell it to the average American dumbfuck voter. Mossad likewise had the growing problem of missiles from Iraq, and no doubt was also aware of Pakistan distributing nuclear bomb technology with the risk of a nuke being put on a missile.

There were also problems on Wall Street. Partly due to downsizing the middle class and lowering it income, but also because of endemic corruption, of which collapses like Enron and Worldcom were but the tip of an iceburg, and a need to park evidence in some place where it could be destroyed. Like the WTC complex. A lot of people benefited, but all they had to do was turn a blind eye.

Everyone knew oil money was being used to fund terrorism, but nobody was willing to tell Americans to drive tiny highly fuel efficient cars in order to get by on US supplies, or move into smaller houses that were cheaper to heat and cool. So, a fascile lie was needed to justify the attempt to seize the oil and at the same time cut off the flow of oil money to terrorists.

The results have been mixed in large part because the terrorists are not that honorable either, struggling among themselves for dominance. Mixed also is how 911 keeps on being an issue online, but not a word of it is heard in the mass media or by the presidential candidates. Meanwhile, the lawyers keep raising the cost of justice and lowering the quality. They have also been able to keep 911 out of courtrooms where the evidence can be evaluated in a more rational fashion than online.

The CIA is the American Praetorian Guard, and like them, acts with impunity ever since it took out JFK. But history also shows that the day came when an emperor realized the danger and chose to rule the empire from outside of Rome. Without that rich target in the city, the Praetorian power waned, they could no longer intimidate the senate, and an emperor arose from the Legions, who with their backing, reduced the Praetorians to a local police force.

There are 3 paths forward. 1- have a new 911 investigation, which will encourage foreign investors that America is going to get its house in order. 2- Have a run on the dollar, then civil unrest, and a new leader given unprecidented power, including tearing the CIA apart, to deal with it. 3- watch the dissolution of the Untied States of Denial with some states fracturing even further with the massive movement of minorities out of white areas with whites fleeing areas where they are not the majority.

Only with option 1 will lawyers have a future. With #2 & #3, they will be dragged out to be shot.

Hsandman,

Alex Jones - Terror Storm
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7579389947


Edit: Wow, you realy belive in all this? O_o Damn...

Personally, I'm quite skeptical of anything Alex Jones produces, the guy has a really low emotional intelligence, he's quite neurotic actually, and as a result he's a conspiracy junkie, constantly distorting information to suite his own fantasies.

For instance: I think hes way off on the Bilderberg group, there have been articles written by people who got inside the meetings, expecting to hear all sorts of questionable plots such as global eugenics movements, and manipulation of leaders to create wars, but many people have stated that the meetings consist of an annual discussion of the world's problems and how to deal with them, and they usually never come to a consensus, as there are people who agree and disagree with each other. From what I have researched, it is akin to an annual conference by business types.

Alex Jones just loves to get excited and worked up, I personally believe the guy belongs in a mental institution. Here is one of the articles on the internet that makes a much more light issue out of the Bilderberg group - What was discussed at Bilderberg?

>Personally, I'm quite skeptical of anything Alex Jones produces, the guy has a really low emotional intelligence, he's quite neurotic actually, and as a result he's a conspiracy junkie, constantly distorting information to suite his own fantasies.>
I would wish that he and the others would not exaggerate and over dramatize as well. But lets not pretend that they are not copying what they saw the Bush administration do, and are trying to use fire to fight fire.

911 has got "false flag" written all over it. Its not, by any means, the first time, but only the most recent in a long line of false flag events used to justify the use of force going all the way back to the conquest of parts of what had been Mexico.

Just ask a Mexican historian for an earful. Nobody calls them "conspiracy whackos". Only a jingoistic American patriot would try to refute them.

Here again, you dont get thru Law school without going along with the group think that minimizes such distasteful parts of American history. So, when you move into politics, you know who to listen to and who to believe, no matter how asinine.

But I heard another crack in the mass media coverup tonite, when a commentator suggested Ron Paul was a loose canon in the NH primaries and had a lot of very energized followers that included anti-war, anti-federal reserve, and conspiracy theorists. He didnt say what the conspiracy was, but we here, and millions of others posting on the net knows, do we not?

i have, for some time been saying that some presidential candidate, who feels he must do something really dramatic to get the air time and coverage he thinks he deserves, will blow the cover off 911.

You want proof 911 was a false flag event? Fine. Lets have a congressional hearing where witnesses can come and present their credentials to prove they are who they claim to be, and let them testify under oath and penalty of perjury so that we can look at the EVIDENCE! You cant have evidence without a legal proceeding, preferably before congress where there is no judge who can decide what qualifies as evidence.

Alex Jones and all the rest on the net can be any kind of whacko and post whatever they like. That does not prove anything. But what we've seen is certainly enuf to warrant an official investigation to make the truthers put up or shut up. So far, I've not seen any defenders of the official 911 report agree that 'put up or shut up' in a legal proceeding would be a good idea. Why not? Why not clear this up so we can move on?

Daybrown,

Alex Jones might not always be wrong, but he is usually too emotional to take seriously.

As for the 9/11 conspiracy, I know the CIA have duped the public with a few false flags in the past, but I still think there is solid evidence supporting why Islamic terrorists would want to bomb the states, just look at the US foreign policy there.

I tend to sway towards Ron Paul views regarding the 9/11 conspiracy, as he believes that it was done by Islamic terrorists from Saudi Arabia, who were pissed off because of the American troops were on their soil, and the fact that the CIA supports their corrupt Saudi dictator as a means to better control the oil there.

So I tend to believe that this event was indeed legit, but I also know that the CIA has pulled off a few false flag events in the past, so it is something they are capable of doing...

.

Flip Floppin' away...


-flipper-
Ryan Rudolph - Daybrown,

-flopper-
Alex Jones might not always be wrong, but he is usually too emotional to take seriously.

-tomas-
How many videos have you watched?
How many articles have you read?
How many times have you visited his site?
The CIA wants to know!




-flipper-
As for the 9/11 conspiracy, I know the CIA have duped the public with a few false flags in the past,

-tomas-
Name two of these "few" falsies.




-flopper-
but I still think there is solid evidence supporting why Islamic terrorists would want to bomb the states,

-tomas-
What evidence?




-flipper-
just look at the US foreign policy there.

-tomas-
So is the CIA running the show? - and if it "is", who is the titular head of this policy?




-flopper-
I tend to sway towards Ron Paul views regarding the 9/11 conspiracy, as he believes that it was done by Islamic terrorists from Saudi Arabia, who were pissed off because of the American troops were on their soil, and the fact that the CIA supports their corrupt Saudi dictator as a means to better control the oil there.

-tomas-
Who controls the CIA? Are they accountable to anyone above General Hayden?
FreeThoughtManifesto: Who Runs The CIA?
http://freethoughtmanifesto.blogspot.co ... s-cia.html

Does it really matter who runs the CIA?
He (General Hayden) ran the National Security Administration...
http://www.counterpunch.org/chretien05082006.html




-flipper-
So I tend to believe that this event was indeed legit,

-tomas-
Alright! Another believer in the 9/11 Commission Report. Bush, Cheney are righteous (legitimate) rulers.




-flopper-
but I also know that the CIA has pulled off a few false flag events in the past,

-tomas-
How do you know this? What is your proof?




-flipper-
so it is something they are capable of doing...

-tomas-
And answerable to who?



Tomas (the tank)
VietNam veteran - 1971



.

Tomas,

my point is that the only way I can come to a conclusion as to whether the 9/11 conspiracy theory is correct or not is by relying on empirical evidence. However, there is evidence for both cases, and because empirical evidence is always uncertain to a degree, one has to rely on the quantity of evidence on both sides, the quality of the evidence and the quality of the source. And then that information is used to sort of arrive at an intuitive approximation as to what the truth could be, but that is all it is. Absolute certainty with these types of empirical matters is very difficult.

So I'd rather be a flip flopper so to speak, meaning I'd rather weigh out the evidence for the possibility of both, and not arrive at an absolute conclusion, rather than being someone who fervently concludes that the system is against them, and gets incredibly emotional whenever they try to talk about it....

So If an emotional person is presenting evidence for an argument, I tend not to weigh that evidence as strongly as if a rational person provides evidence for the same argument. And Alex Jones could be correct, but his psychological maturity hurts him as a reliable source in my opinion. And the problem with most of these conspiracy theorists is that they all tend to have the same degree of emotional maturity.

I agree Ryan that there is a lack of emotional maturity. In fact, on both sides of 911. But in the postings, it is the defenders of the official 911 report who call me names and impune my rationality. I do not really have a dog in this fight because I dont see that what I think about it will have any effect whatever on the ultimate repercussions.

Its even debatable whether the ongoing controversy on the net will ever have an effect on CIA or government policy. The CIA was most obviously implicated in Iran Contra, yet nothing whatever was done about it. Even after Hassenfus revealed that the CIA was using C-130's to fly cocaine from Central America to the Mena AR airport before going on to the national C-130 support base at Jacksonville AR.

Nevertheless, I do not impune the character of the many honorable patriots who work for the CIA. There was no reason for the entire CIA apparatus to be in on 911, nor was that necessary for Mossad, or- for that matter, Wall Street. The Swiss financial computers identified a remarkable increase in put calls just prior to 911, which suggests that many on Wall Street were tipped off that something big was in the works, but there was no reason to clue anyone besides Silverstein in on what was going on.

Silverstein is the only individual so far identified to be involved, most obviously from his comment on "pulling" WTC 7. But in any case, this will all just slide under the rug while the primaries, and perhaps even the election, go on.

All I have- repeatedly- asked for, is a congressional hearing where those who claim to know something can present their credentials and testify under oath to present real evidence. All we have so far are rants. Anyone can say anything on a website. I dont see how, given the ongoing controversy, this request can be characterized as irrational.

But I have also commonly said it will all stay on a back burner unless there is a financial crisis. Then, scapegoats will be needed, and 911 will provide them. I do not see any way to assess the risk. I do see that if you are concerned, a realistic action would be to move out of a major metro area into some obscure small or mid sized town. The demographics and ongoing investment in such communities suggest it will be financially advantageous to do so whether the economy keeps on muddling thru or faces crisis.

Gordon Ross' presentation begins with a photo of the twin towers taken from across the river. One tower has already experienced some kind of "pancake collapse" filing the air with dust and smoke. But above all that, which you cannot see from Manhattan, is the outline of the core columns still standing. Logic begs the question- if they no longer need to support all the floors, then why did they collapse?

Logic is not persuasive to zealots. What should be persuasive is to consider the effect on a system which is so dominated by zealotry.