GENIUS FORUMS

what are you protecting

Very good question, and the answer you already know,

but if you think about the answer as coming not from me, but from these manifestations, then you will have a different opinion on what that means.

Also Dennis, do not feel that I am in opposition to you in any way, I am not, maybe in opposition of views but that's all.

I understand what you mean ultimately.

When you say existence is an illusion you are getting mightily close to nihilism.

the buddha said, 'moon in water'.
it exists, not inherently.

you said earlier you lived on 5 cents for some months or something similar.
that's a lie.

Not a lie i said I haven't had 5c (cash or money), I have had access to things which are paid for, I just don't spend. I was lucky enough to have read the tao early on and understood "chase after money and security and your heart will never unclench" or like water "content with the lowest places that ordinary people disdain".

Or even more clearly stated later on by Christ

"Do not worry"

But I have not chained myself to these ideas, I am free here, to join groups and have concepts, they are only experiences.


I understand it exists, but only as far as my experience and the experiences of others.

I see also how clear the messages are, the lessons, they are being shown to you, through sense experience, your thoughts alone have so many, half of them ignored, but eventually you learn. You can't really believe we have this awareness which we have witnessed expanding into greater states of understanding, and then think that there isn't a greater awareness, a higher understanding, how is that possible when you are staring straight at it's manifestations? At it's knowledge? It's music and it's thoughts.

Don't you remember how you got here?You just opened your eyes, it was all done without you. There is no control, we are witnesses. That is why Christ said "The witness I bear is greater even than john's" ( or something along those lines) He was bearing witness to God, through understanding,recognition, and wakefulness.

Or even more clearly stated later on by Christ

"Do not worry"

There is no evidence for an historical Jesus.
zip.

the religions of the fertile crescent are simply trouble sources.

Jesus is the name I gave to the guy who wrote or said what Jesus said, I am very aware it is made up

It doesn't make the wisdom any less real

Dennis Mahar wrote:

Or even more clearly stated later on by Christ

"Do not worry"

There is no evidence for an historical Jesus.
zip.

the religions of the fertile crescent are simply trouble sources.

Still flapping your ignorant gums about what you have zero knowledge about.

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools"
-- Paul the Apostle

SeekerOfWisdom wrote:Jesus is the name I gave to the guy who wrote or said what Jesus said, I am very aware it is made up

Here is the evidence:

For the church leaders in the mid second century, the four Gospels were baseline authority in their teachings. In about 170 AD, Irenaeus cited 23 of the 27 New Testament books, omitting only Philemon, James, 2 Peter and 3 John. The Muratorian fragment, written about the same time, attests to the widespread use of all the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, 1 Peter and 2 Peter. However, other church fathers had already cited those omitted books in various writings defending against Gnostic doctrines. The Codex Barococcio from 206 AD includes 64 of the 66 books of today's Bible. Esther and Revelation were omitted, but they had already been declared as inspired scripture by Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Clement, Tertullian and the Muratorian Canon. In 230 AD, Origen declared that all Christians acknowledged as scripture the four Gospels, Acts, the epistles of Paul, 1 Peter, 1 John and Revelation.


5,600 of which are copies and fragments in the original Greek. Some manuscript texts date to the early second and third centuries, with the time between the original and our earliest existing fragment being a remarkably short 40-60 years.

Julius Caesar's The Gallic Wars (10 manuscripts remain, with the earliest one dating to 1,000 years after the original autograph)

Pliny the Younger's Natural History (7 manuscripts; 750 years elapsed)

Thucydides' History (8 manuscripts; 1,300 years elapsed)

Herodotus' History (8 manuscripts; 1,350 years elapsed)

Plato (7 manuscripts; 1,300 years (until Nag Hammadi)

Tacitus' Annals (20 manuscripts; 1,000 years)

Homer's Iliad, is the second best-preserved literary work of all antiquity, with 643 copies of manuscript support discovered to date. In those copies, there are 764 disputed lines of text, as compared to 40 lines in all the New Testament manuscripts.

There were hundreds of texts, different books and Gospels and acts or deeds, that never made it into the New Testament.This fact is never talked about by the so called 'experts.They did not have the same priorities as we do today ie. textual geneology. The Jesus story is re-told countless times from early days (around AD50 first written) to the fourth century.


There is basically one Jesus story and it's always the same in the hundreds of accounts.


1) Jesus lived on earth as a man from the beginning of the first century to AD 33.

2) That his mother was supposed to be a Virgin named "Mary"

3) Same principle players, Peter, Andrew, Philip, John, Mary Magdeline.

4) That Jesus was known as a miracle worker.

5) He claimed to be the son of God and Messiah.

6) He was crucified under Pilate.

7) Around the time of the Passover.

8) Rose from the dead leaving an empty tomb.

9) Several women discovered the empty tomb.

10) That this was in Jerusalem.


We find in 1945 AD - 40 never before seen books from antiquity. They all concure, every single one, with the record of Jesus, the Apostles, the resurrection, and the whole enchilada - but it will never be enough evidence for the blind 'critical thinkers'.

1) The Apochryphon of John - "I John did hear these things."

2)The Gospel of Thomas - "These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke and which Didymos Judas Thomas wrote down."

3)The Prayer of the Apostle Paul - ""prayer of Paul the Apostle."

4)The Apochryphon of James - "James writes to those."

5)The Gospel of Philip - "The Gospel according to Philip."

6)The Book of Thomas the Contender - "The secret words that the saviour spoke to Judas Thomas which I, even I Mathais(Acts 2) wrote down, while I was walking , listening to them speak with one another."

7)The (First) Apocalypse of James - (snipped) "It is the Lord who spoke with me... I have given you a sign of these things, James."

8)The (Second) Apocalypse of James - "This is the discourse that James the Just spoke in Jerusalem which Mareim one of the priests wrote."

9)The Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles - "And I Peter, inquired about the name."

10)Apocalypse of Peter - "he said to me, Peter."

11) The Teachings of Silvanus - "The teachings of Silvanus." (companion of Paul in Acts 15)

12)The Letter of Peter to Philip - "Peter, the Apostle of Jesus Christ, to Philip our beloved brother."

13) The Gospel of Mary - "The Gospel according to Mary."


Now how can literally hundreds of accounts get these 10 facts wrong?

There are 24 known Gospels in existence not just four.

The notion of a fixed entity 'God' awaiting in judgement is deluded.
All that gets is resignation.

like I say, I listen to little kids.
They recognise a situation of suffering and talk to it.
They know it's transformable.
If it's transformable it doesn't exist from it's own side.
If it was a fixed condition it couldn't transform.
That means causality.
The kids as they get older generally fall into the complacency, cynicism, resignation of society's prevailing mood and simply just try to fit in.

An adult with 'Beginner's Mind',
(and most adults are resigned to conditions, put up with it, and go along with it),
can seize causality and be free in the conditions.

The wisdom of emptiness makes a difference.

In that way nirvana is possible right now, right here.

Dennis Mahar wrote:The notion of a fixed entity 'God' awaiting in judgement is deluded.
All that gets is resignation.

like I say, I listen to little kids.
They recognise a situation of suffering and talk to it.
They know it's transformable.
If it's transformable it doesn't exist from it's own side.
If it was a fixed condition it couldn't transform.
That means causality.
The kids as they get older generally fall into the complacency, cynicism, resignation of society's prevailing mood and simply just try to fit in.

An adult with 'Beginner's Mind',
(and most adults are resigned to conditions, put up with it, and go along with it),
can seize causality and be free in the conditions.

The wisdom of emptiness makes a difference.

In that way nirvana is possible right now, right here.

Stick to a subject you have earned the right to talk about. The historical context of the life of Jesus is something I know for a fact you have not earned the right to an opinion.

You don't know it as a fact. It's a belief.
Because your family backstory involves clergy, you're emotionally invested.

Just because Enid Blyton wrote about Noddy and Big Ears doesn't mean they were historical figures.

What is this curricula you are speaking of? The one Dennis kept bringing up saying it was a requirement to have a group? I never wanted a curricula, only a group, or is that not allowed in your rules?

In my experience, when groups are formed, curricula is a natural outcome. I Am goes out the window and They Say takes over. Why is it not enough for you to exchange ideas with like minds - why must this exchange entail the making of a group?'

it sounds like you both have huge curricula, thinking strictly one what is curricula and what is not curricula, what an enlightened person should be doing and isn't allowed to be doing, as if they are rules...

Forget the past and look around, do you see any boundaries? Any rules telling you what you should and shouldn't do?

It is not a matter of rules, it is a matter of understanding the law of karma or the law of the carnal mind of "whatsoever a man sows, so shall he reap." The law of karma is not a real [permanent] boundary for it can be reasoned away but until you acknowledge its temporary presence in your awareness, you will believe you are free when you are not.

Or would you say it is a lot more like a dream, where you are infinitely free?

How is attachment to the gods of sense the definition of infinite freedom?

You asked me if I believe in God. No. God, Life, Awareness, Spirit, Emptiness, I AM - all pointers to IS. Why would I have the need to believe in [what] IS? The God of attachment to sense awareness IS. The God of detaching from sense awareness IS.

SeekerOfWisdom wrote:It doesn't make the wisdom any less real

This is true. And Jesus did speak of being gods. Which leads me to point you to the wisdom of Jesus of being gods. The scripture is: "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" In your law is the core wisdom of his words. Jesus did not come to teach of the law of the senses as being the truth of God, he came to fulfil the law [end his karma, his gods of sense, "it is finished"] and teach of the truth of the Spirit of God.

What did Jesus say?

My Dad's God.
My Mum's a virgin.

Anything else on the menu?

crystal meth?

Dennis Mahar wrote:You don't know it as a fact. It's a belief.

Yup - yup - yup - I did not give any evidence at all in this thread. Dom dee dee dum dee doh.
http://www.theabsolute.net/phpBB/viewto ... 86#p136468

Dennis said:

There is no evidence for an historical Jesus.
zip.

I just gave you a literal mountain of evidence and you are either not intelligent enough to see it, to invested in your worldview to consider actual evidence or are simply following your blind faith.

Because your family backstory involves clergy, you're emotionally invested.

Very logical and I can see you have done an immense amount of research to come up with such a sapient and cogent answer. I think I shall have to do another 30 years of research because your answer here - overturns all of my historical and methodical research for decades to find actual answers. I am glad you have dedicated yourself to looking at archeological, textual and historic evidence for decades, like an actual expert, to arrive at such an astounding conclusion.

This one:

There is no evidence for an historical Jesus.
zip.

Absolutely searing intellect and penetrating insight. It overturns all the evidence I layed out because you say so and that makes it so.

Thank you for the heads up and I will let all of the actual historians know of this groundbreaking news. The world must know and the scholars need to be made aware that there exists not a scrap of evidence for this Jesus person to have ever possibly existed.

Just because Enid Blyton wrote about Noddy and Big Ears doesn't mean they were historical figures.

Great comparison.

The eight authors of the NT and the additional authors of the Nag Hammadi all concurring with the historical Jesus story are overturned by a single author who writes kids books.

Searing intellect with no emotional investment - simply a clear perception of the facts and evidence as you have demonstrated Dennis.

Beingof1 wrote:Yup - yup - yup - I did not give any evidence at all in this thread.

Yep - yep - yep - copied and pasted from elsewhere without capacity to verify what it all means.

But again, why would it make any difference what the dead book says about dead people doing dead miracles? If ones faith has to be second hand like that, then the truth is that there's no faith at all. The good book is used to hide a lack of faith.

Being, why is it important for anything like that to be true? Why would anyone insist on Plato or Homer being real? What counts is what's written, obviously. and even then: Atlantis.

Dennis Mahar wrote:What did Jesus say?

My Dad's God.
My Mum's a virgin.

Anything else on the menu?

crystal meth?

Surely Dennis you understand that Jesus was speaking metaphorically about his Father and not literally, as in the Father of all things, the Spirit of all things? Also, Jesus did not say his Mum was a virgin, that is a Christian idea/idea and Jesus was not Christian. Again, as Diebert and John both pointed out, what does it matter if he existed historically or not? Wisdom is wisdom. A = A.

Diebert: But again, why would it make any difference what the dead book says about dead people doing dead miracles? If ones faith has to be second hand like that, then the truth is that there's no faith at all. The good book is used to hide a lack of faith.

The bible is meant to awaken, to stir, to make one think, no different than the Pali Canon or the Tao Te Ching. "Come, let us reason together, saith the Lord." What does the bible say about faith? "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

The words of Jesus say one thing only.

CAUSALITY

this produces that.

Beingof1 wrote:

SeekerOfWisdom wrote:Jesus is the name I gave to the guy who wrote or said what Jesus said, I am very aware it is made up

Beingof1

It does not concern me if his name was joshua or josephus, the historical records don't prove miracles, I am saying the miracles are what is probably made up, (might have a different opinion If I lived 2000 years ago)

Again, I listen to the words Jesus spoke in the bible, I don't care if his name was jesus or when he lived, I don't deny that he was the exact person you say he was, and I don't even deny that he had contact with god or that he could perform miracles, just that I don't know, what I do know are his wise words.

movingalways

yes I AM, and what is I?

What makes up anything that could be called I?

God.

You seem to have the belief in what you call the underlying spirit, but then you say you don't have a belief in God? Which is just a three letter word for the "cause of all", similar to the word Tao.

And it is not enough moving because on forums there is no action, only ideas. what are ideas worth without action? The group would be for collaborative action, a hive mind useable by all, imagine having co-operative smart people of all different professions from everywhere, are you not aware of your own potential? Do you know how much that potential is multiplied in a group?

I don't know why I'm really pointing this out, because it should be very very clear, but the advantages are so far reaching that being on this forum is really just a waste of time as there is almost zero collaboration.

"Surely Dennis you understand that Jesus was speaking metaphorically about his Father and not literally, as in the Father of all things, the Spirit of all things?"

Isn't this spirit what you should call God? Or more specifically... Isn't this spirit, which you believe in, what I am calling God?

Also..
You have never experienced the god of detachment from sense awareness, you might think you have, but every single time you wake up straight back to that god of sense attachment, straight back here.

The Buddha had never experienced the god of sense detachment either, as every morning he woke up straight back here, and had never come back from the dead to tell us if it worked or not, he simply assumed he was detached and would "not return here".

Stop listening to other peoples words as if they are rules, they were just people, Buddha took shits and glorified himself, he was a smart rich prince with a lot of time on his hands, you are probably much smarter or wiser than all of them, you have access to wisdom from everywhere, including all past wisdom that's been handed down, you just don't know it and every day you ignore your potential because you are alone, and we don't take action alone, .....and I mean freedom in this dream world, to experience flying in your mind, or to go and do whatever you want on earth, it is eternal experience, if you knew you were immortal truly, you would know what I meant by freedom.

For there to be karma there would have to be a right or a wrong, or anything that could be named right or wrong, good or bad, do you think it cares about our right or wrong? It would burn 200,000 awareness's to hell tomorrow for funzies.

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:

Beingof1 wrote:Yup - yup - yup - I did not give any evidence at all in this thread.

Yep - yep - yep - copied and pasted from elsewhere without capacity to verify what it all means.

This is what I mean Deibert. You just assume I copied and pasted. I had to have because it is I who said it. I copied and pasted the early church Fathers and the ancient document comparison for convenience. The rest is all mine from research.

Go ahead bigmouth - prove I copied and pasted this evidence because I know for a fact how long I painstakingly researched the Nag Hammadi. These are my findings. I challenge you to see where I copied and pasted the Nag Hammadi evidence and the major events of the life of Jesus.

But again, why would it make any difference what the dead book says about dead people doing dead miracles?

I know - lets throw away all history - good solution and crystal clear logic going on here. That way, we can be sure we do not read anything that might delude.

Stunning and insightful. Yup - yup - yup -we don`t learn nothin round here from old dead folks cause we is way to smart for that.

If ones faith has to be second hand like that, then the truth is that there's no faith at all. The good book is used to hide a lack of faith.

I see - we should go ahead and toss out the teachings of the Buddha - cause its second hand don`t ya know. While we are at it Lao Tzu - more second hand faith. Hakuin, Socrates, and don`t forget Friedrich Nietzsche.

Yup - yup - yup - throw em all out to get those bad ole second hand books of faith.

Being, why is it important for anything like that to be true?

Finally - a real question. I thought it would take the rest of my lifetime.

Multiple choice

Who said?
"If it is not truthful and not helpful, don't say it.
If it is truthful and not helpful, don't say it.
If it is not truthful and helpful, don't say it.
If it is truthful and helpful, wait for the right time."

1) Mickey Mouse
2) Gandalf The white
3) Siddharta, the Buddha
4) Joseph Stalin

"“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”

1) Jesus the Christ
2) Donald Duck
3) Hakuin the Zen master
4) Adolf Hitler

Why would anyone insist on Plato or Homer being real? What counts is what's written, obviously. and even then: Atlantis.

Because Diebert; if there is no real life example of the possibilities of absolute enlightenment, where do we point? Star Wars, The Little Engine that Could or The Buddha?

Is it a real possibility or just a fantasy novel?



Seeker:

Beingof1

It does not concern me if his name was joshua or josephus, the historical records don't prove miracles, I am saying the miracles are what is probably made up, (might have a different opinion If I lived 2000 years ago)

You might have a different opinion if just one time in your life your hand passed through a table. If it happened only once and was never repeated, does that mean it did not happen? Would it change the way you viewed the universe, your life and just about everything?

Again, I listen to the words Jesus spoke in the bible, I don't care if his name was jesus or when he lived, I don't deny that he was the exact person you say he was, and I don't even deny that he had contact with god or that he could perform miracles, just that I don't know, what I do know are his wise words.

"And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless."
-- Paul the Apostle

I know what it means to have faith as I have witnessed the ineffable. Once you do, you realize the deeds and acts recorded in the scripture are not fanciful tails but a guide of transcendent possibilities.

think of Jesus as an example of what is possible with the experience of clarity of illumination. If he could heal the sick, so can you. If he could witness the transcending of Newtonian physics, so can you. If he could resurrect, can you?

He is a real life example that we are not merely our bodies but something much, much more.

If I wanted to learn astrophysics, I would seek out the most knowledgeable and skilled scientist in this field. What do you want to be? The critic or the one who understands?

Pam,

You implied, concerning Jesus, there are 2 conversations.

The conversation Christians have about Jesus.
The conversation that Jesus says.

Bear with me please,
You are not being truthful.

The conversation that 'Jesus says' is also a conversation about Jesus the Christians have.

There is no conversation 'Jesus says' existing as 'Jesus says'.
There are only accounts purporting to what 'Jesus says' occurring decades and centuries later.

The conversation is always/already the conversation the Christians are having.

Can you inform Boo it's a belief system,
He gets hot under the collar if I mention it.

If you take what 'Jesus is purported to have said',

you will discover a Context.
That context is transformation/causality.
All his 'says' are concerning conditions and transforming conditions.
transforming from hellish conditions to heavenly conditions.
from pain to pleasure.

He recognises form is empty therefore transformable.

He has done nothing new,
that's old hat.

His context is very cool but his contents suck really bad.
He didn't do the Advanced Course.

Boo has been hanging around Jesus Camp for decades.
This is his report card.

Curriculum Comprehension = F minus.
Co-dependency rating = Triple A +

Net result= No diploma awarded.

Beingof1

My hand has never passed through the table and I've never seen anyone resurrect or heal the sick miraculously, I've heard a lot of stories but not all stories are true.

You are assuming I don't believe in miracles, in fact, I am strictly under the belief that everything is a miracle. Every thought, every sense experience. In other forms of sense experience outside of this world, in dreams, in whatever else exists I am unaware of, I don't doubt that hands can move through tables, but in this one, the one we are sharing here, I've never seen a hand move through a table.

I believe in the eternity of existence and that all is God, but I don't know if Jesus resurrected from the dead, because I wasn't there, just as I don't know Hercules had a flying horse.