GENIUS FORUMS

I actually strongly desire a strong recession. I think it is needed to bring "moneyed" people back to reality. Too much wealth generated without real effort leads to inefficiencies and extreme self-centeredness.

I want the West to suffer more, to feel more pain, so that it becomes forced to pay closer attention to reality.

I feel you on that one, and up until recently I would have agreed with everything you say.. Then I found out that my parents and grandparents have stuff in the markets that will come to me in the future. I still don't have any of it myself, so half of me roots for the big collapse, but then I feel like I would be getting screwed over. Basically, now I hope everything just stays where it is, because I don't have any specific rooting interests.

I was actually also happy on 911, just because I was so bitter in college.. Plus, we got out of class early, so it was a win, win.

Nat, I know McCandles was pretty immature - but how can't you sympathize with a guy who hated money so much he donated his scholarship money to charity and threw his actual dollar bills in a fire? I thought you of all people would appreciate that.

Ok, the markets are lower cause they are selling out taking profits. hmm. What are they doing with the money?

I go to http://cbot.com and see the grain prices are all down. Oil, gold, & silver are mixed, or if up, not really going anywhere. Bonds? I dont think so. And the fed just lowered the rate. I aint seen any bonfires in the streets. What are they doing with the money?

Spoze, that since it was all digital to start with, that it never existed in the first place?

James,

I actually strongly desire a strong recession. I think it is needed to bring "moneyed" people back to reality. Too much wealth generated without real effort leads to inefficiencies and extreme self-centeredness.

I want the West to suffer more, to feel more pain, so that it becomes forced to pay closer attention to reality.

While I can understand why you would feel that way, I'm unwilling to go that far. I'm not going to wish suffering on anyone - suffering will come to all of its own accord anyway. I prefer to take an evolutionary stance and put my hope in progress, even though it means a likelihood of seeing no major change in my own lifetime.

snow bunny,

I was actually also happy on 911, just because I was so bitter in college.. Plus, we got out of class early, so it was a win, win.

That's pretty cold. I hope you realize now that such thinking is not reflective of any genuine understanding or courage of character, but simply immaturity and frustration.

Cory,

Nat, I know McCandles was pretty immature - but how can't you sympathize with a guy who hated money so much he donated his scholarship money to charity and threw his actual dollar bills in a fire? I thought you of all people would appreciate that.

I do appreciate it. Quite a bit, in fact. It shows that McCandless had the seeds of exceptional character. But sadly, he threw those seeds away out of a desire to pursue Quixotic fantasies of heroism. I can recognize his formidable potential while still holding him accountable for squandering it in such a pointless way. Who knows what he might have accomplished if he had been more sensible and went the Thoreau path rather than the kamikaze one?

Unidian wrote:
snow bunny,

I was actually also happy on 911, just because I was so bitter in college.. Plus, we got out of class early, so it was a win, win.

That's pretty cold. I hope you realize now that such thinking is not reflective of any genuine understanding or courage of character, but simply immaturity and frustration.

I still have never felt even the smallest amount of remorse about what happened on 911. I guess I've evolved from an antisocial outlook to an apathetic one.

Jamesh wrote:I want the West to suffer more, to feel more pain, so that it becomes forced to pay closer attention to reality.

Feeling lots of pain is hardly a sure catalyst to paying closer attention to reality. As often as not, when people feel pain they adopt some comforting illusion to make themselves feel better.

snow bunny,

I still have never felt even the smallest amount of remorse about what happened on 911. I guess I've evolved from an antisocial outlook to an apathetic one.

That's unfortunate. Here's hoping you find a way to cultivate compassion later in life. Compassion doesn't mean feeling sympathetic only when people we like or care about get hurt. It means caring about the welfare of precisely the sort of people we are otherwise inclined to disregard completely, such as the "mainstream" types and SUV drivers who were in those buildings on that tragic day. Human life is human life, and we're all in this together. There is nothing particularly awakened or commendable about not giving a shit simply because others "aren't our kind." The goal is to increase the degree to which we are willing to care about the well-being of those we least want to.

Easier said than done, of course. In the interest of honesty, I certainly still have my all-too-frequent moments where I'd just as soon put them all on the Titanic. But when resentment and frustration subside, I realize the basic wrongness of that. Maybe you will one day as well - or maybe not. Only time will tell.

Philo,

Feeling lots of pain is hardly a sure catalyst to paying closer attention to reality. As often as not, when people feel pain they adopt some comforting illusion to make themselves feel better.

Excellent point - irrefutable, really.

Unidian- My only thing to add would be to say that, I did not think that my feeling were in any way an accomplishment. I think they were my opinions on the matter, and I don't think they were either better or worse than the feelings others had when learning about the events of 911. Everyone can feel compassionate for others, but that's more about how *you* are feeling at the time.

Philosophaster wrote:

Jamesh wrote:I want the West to suffer more, to feel more pain, so that it becomes forced to pay closer attention to reality.

Feeling lots of pain is hardly a sure catalyst to paying closer attention to reality. As often as not, when people feel pain they adopt some comforting illusion to make themselves feel better.

But terrorists really do hate is because we're free and prosperous!

But terrorists really do hate is because we're free and prosperous!

Are you serious? I'm assuming not, but around here, it's best to check...

Feeling lots of pain is hardly a sure catalyst to paying closer attention to reality. As often as not, when people feel pain they adopt some comforting illusion to make themselves feel better.

I guess what you say is generally correct, but not so much if they gain the strength to deal with problems when growing up - which people are not getting now. In some ways hardship helps the mind from being distracted from concentrating on itself, on its ego, and in the end making mountains out of molehills.

I know that there is something dreadfully wrong with current society when stuff like the following happens.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 234692.ece

Social network sites link to town's seven suicides

The friends who killed themselves
Dale Crole, 18, hanged himself at the Coney Beach funfair at Porthcawl, near Bridgend, January 2007
David Dilling, 19, a former classmate of Dale from Pyle, near Bridgend, hanged himself, February 2007
Thomas Davies, 20, who had been at school with both Dale and David, found hanged from a tree in David’s home village two days before his funeral, February 2007
Zachery Barnes, 17, of Wildmill, Bridgend, a friend of Thomas’s family, hanged with washing line, August 2007
Liam Clarke, 20, a friend of Dale, found hanged in a park in Bridgend, December 2007
Gareth Morgan, 27, who knew Liam, found hanged in his bedroom, January 2008
Natasha Randall, 17, of Blaengarw, Bridgend, a close friend of Liam, hanged herself in her bedroom, January 2008

One of the interesting things about the Internet is that it makes it incredibly easy for people to find and contact a subculture of others just like them, reinforcing their own feelings and beliefs, no matter how bizarre or dangerous those may be.

True, although as far as that goes, QRS (even with the misogyny and such) is pretty mild compared to some of the truly hair-raising stuff out there. Whatever appalling thing you can think of, there are people getting together to promote it online.

Of course. I was not thinking of QRS specifically. :-P

Unidian wrote:

But terrorists really do hate is because we're free and prosperous!

Are you serious? I'm assuming not, but around here, it's best to check...

;-)

Wow DHodges! Do you watch the nightly business report every night or something?! You seem to know your stuff cold.

Here is his daddy's website.

Grandfather Economic Report series
http://mwhodges.home.att.net/summary.htm

omg...

LOL

Jamesh wrote:

Wow DHodges! Do you watch the nightly business report every night or something?! You seem to know your stuff cold.

Here is his daddy's website.

Grandfather Economic Report series
http://mwhodges.home.att.net/summary.htm

Are you like friends with him, or something? Sorry, I couldn't get anything from a quick click.

Here are a few highlights I was able to gather. I'd have gotten more, but I vomited a little in my mouth.

There are so many great & positive things about our beloved America to celebrate. But, there are also some negative trends...

Oh really? Let me guess.... WELFARE!!!! It's always the dreaded WELFARE with these people. The root of all evil.

The Government sector has grown 3.5 times faster than the economy since I was young (see growth progression pictures and government spending report). Federal government spending increased 8 times faster than the economy and nearly all was consumptive social spending, a category not included by the framers of the Constitution as their 4-principal reasons for creating a federal government...

Yep, sure enough, it's WELFARE. I'd have been worried if it wasn't - such a violation of the laws of right-wing psychology would threaten the stability of our time-space continuum.

Oh, and by the way, the preamble of the constitution specifically states that one of its purposes is to "secure the general welfare." HUH... go figure, eh? Of course, all these "strict Constitutionalist" right-wingers will immediately start saying that the founders didn't mean what they said when it comes to that one. It's hilarious to observe their attempts to make it go away through various apologetics.

Government is not a 'free-lunch'

The Libertarian Bible requires that the terms "free lunch" and "handout" be used at least once in every anti-government diatribe. I actually didn't see "handout" during my brief perusal, but there's no question it's there somewhere. And if it isn't, it's only because he forgot to say it.

America is a significantly more socialized, government spending-dependent nation (and less a free-market society) than before. But government does not create living standards - - it consumes national income.

Hmm... that's news to me. Last I checked, I'm pretty sure I had food on my table and a roof over my head thanks to government. But I guess that's not "creating living standards." It's just a senseless consumption of national income, and Grandfather Grinch wants his precious nickel back.

There's that social Darwinist tendency lurking in the background again...

And then he goes on to argue that social spending is going to cause America to be destroyed by a surprise enemy attack, because there won't be enough money to fight the war or somesuch - which I must admit is an argument so patently ludicrous I have actually never seen it before. So, for that small dose of amusingly innovative insanity, I have to thank the guy. LOL.

I was joking when I said that was his daddy's website. Just happened to notice the same surname.

In regards Libertarians like this dude. I do think they are often at least partly correct, but they fail to take into account the necessary requirements to centrally organise complex capitalistic societies.

Why he seems to be a fan of Reagan is beyond me - Reagan got into government on the back of reducing government spending, ie small gavernment, but then proceeded to introduce a stack of big government spending.

Democrats tax and spend. Republicans borrow and spend. How spending truckloads of borrowed money and slapping it all on the "national Visa card" constitutes "fiscal responsibility," I'll never know. Gee, here's an idea. When we are complaining about Democrats spending money we actually have on social programs, it's probably a good idea not to spend even larger amounts of money we don't actually have (i.e. borrowed from China) on the latest "welfare for warfare" military-industrial free lunch handout bonanza. Bill Clinton, "tax and spend" Democrat that he is, balanced the budget and produced the largest surplus in American history. His simian successor, Der Chimpenfuhrer, proceeded to exemplify "conservative values" and "fiscal responsibility" by replacing that surplus with the largest deficit in American history. And yet people STILL want to assert that the right-wing is more economically sane?

Jamesh wrote:I was joking when I said that was his daddy's website. Just happened to notice the same surname.

In regards Libertarians like this dude. I do think they are often at least partly correct, but they fail to take into account the necessary requirements to centrally organise complex capitalistic societies.

Why he seems to be a fan of Reagan is beyond me - Reagan got into government on the back of reducing government spending, ie small gavernment, but then proceeded to introduce a stack of big government spending.

I thought that might be all you were going for with that, but then I was too busy with a million things to see if there was another coincidence that I was missing.

Philosophaster wrote:One of the interesting things about the Internet is that it makes it incredibly easy for people to find and contact a subculture of others just like them, reinforcing their own feelings and beliefs, no matter how bizarre or dangerous those may be.

Conversely, you can look at how diverse people are and how differently they can think. If that's what you call it.

PBS's FRONTLINE did a piece tonite on teens who use the net to create "relationships". Showed how one young sexy wench strung some kid along, and then revealed to everyone how she was only doing it to prove what a schmuck he was. The kid committed suicide.

Some of the most dangerous sexual predators around are from 12-15 years, and they are female. Their instinctive powers of manipulating emotions is far more common and does much more damage, to peers of both sexes than pervs ever did.

PBS's FRONTLINE did a piece tonite on teens who use the net to create "relationships". Showed how one young sexy wench strung some kid along, and then revealed to everyone how she was only doing it to prove what a schmuck he was. The kid committed suicide.

I hope she's facing some serious charges. Such people need to be held accountable.