GENIUS FORUMS

samadhi wrote:Sapius,

Yes, I choose something over another because I like it and I want it, but what motivates it or what it achieves, is the question for me. End of the day, I choose OR want because it satisfies the fulfillment of my values, and that fulfillment makes my Self feel better. If 'want' is the final point of your conclusion, then I cannot say much.

Everybody wants something. It's vacuous to argue that wanting something, whether it be about values or a simple pleasure, is some kind of profound insight into how things are.

It is very profound, though very simple. Life is about fullfillment. There would be no ongoingness without something being satisfied. The end of fullfillment is oblivion, the end of life. This is not an actual possibility.

May be, and I do understand what you are saying, but if you give away the money anyways, what would be the reason I wonder?

To make someone else happy.

You fail to see your essential role in the motivation. It's not all about everything and everyone other than you. It's not only about you, but it's ALL about you.

Samadhi;

"Samadhi" is not an indication of status but a type of consciousness.

I’m quite sure you really mean that, but you must consider that a “profound” type of consciousness to say the least.

Sap: May be, and I do understand what you are saying, but if you give away the money anyways, what would be the reason I wonder?

Sam: To make someone else happy.

Exactly! How very kind and noble of you.

Now how does the fulfilling of this GOOD deed according to YOUR values make YOU feel? What motivates you to make someone else feel “happy”? Unless of course you feel miserable in ‘making someone else happy’, in which case, I really cannot say much about your subjective experience.

There’s really no point arguing over this my friend. As I mentioned, it does not really matter what you think or I. You can surely stick by your reasoning, and me mine. We do have a choice you know.

T_J: It is very profound, though very simple.

Just a side note.

As far as personal realization is concerned, it WAS profound when it was realized; like a ton of bricks falling on ones head; and becomes simple after that, becoming a part of ones psyche then on, and hence seems simple. This is what ‘Knowing Ones Self’ means in my books; in other words, actually accepting or speaking the truth to Ones Self.

There is no shame in accepting ones own true nature in realizing the self-centeredness of consciousness, which actually reduces the self-centeredness of a Self tremendously, but never eliminates it.

Ultimately, it's all up to a particular Self and how it perceives.

df,

samadhi: Everybody wants something. It's vacuous to argue that wanting something, whether it be about values or a simple pleasure, is some kind of profound insight into how things are.

df: It is very profound, though very simple. Life is about fullfillment. There would be no ongoingness without something being satisfied. The end of fullfillment is oblivion, the end of life. This is not an actual possibility.

Well, call it what you want. But it doesn't take any great insight to see.

Sapius: ... if you give away the money anyways, what would be the reason I wonder?

samadhi: To make someone else happy.

df: You fail to see your essential role in the motivation. It's not all about everything and everyone other than you. It's not only about you, but it's ALL about you.

I've already said, yes, we are all doing what we want. It doesn't mean what we want is all about pleasure.

Sapius,

Sapius: ... if you give away the money anyways, what would be the reason I wonder?

samadhi: To make someone else happy.

Sapius: Exactly! How very kind and noble of you.

Now how does the fulfilling of this GOOD deed according to YOUR values make YOU feel? What motivates you to make someone else feel "happy"? Unless of course you feel miserable in 'making someone else happy', in which case, I really cannot say much about your subjective experience.

I've already said, everyone is always doing what they want, even me. It doesn't mean everything we do is about pleasure.

There's really no point arguing over this my friend. As I mentioned, it does not really matter what you think or I. You can surely stick by your reasoning, and me mine. We do have a choice you know.

I'm just making a point, I'm not trying to convince you.

Loss/Gain

samadhi wrote:I've already said, yes, we are all doing what we want. It doesn't mean what we want is all about pleasure.

It seems like you understand what I mean, but you only refuse to call it "pleasure." Whatever you want does give you pleasure in the most general sense; but whatever you choose to call the motivation, displeasure is the sure effect of not following that motivation.

Sam,

Well, call it what you want. But it doesn't take any great insight to see.

It doesn't seem like it, but then, about 95% of all people I know don't see it at all. Or at least they don't see that maximizing happiness / satisfaction / pleasure in the long run is the logical way to live. Maestro's example of a man who pursues a luxury car for most of his working life is a good one.

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Samadhi;

I'm just making a point, I'm not trying to convince you.

Me too, and I made that clear already; however, point taken :)