GENIUS FORUMS

Tfhe evidence concerning Jesus is "The transfiguration."

The evidence concerning Lao Tzu is found in his saying of these words

Existence is beyond the power of words
to define.

Terms may be used
But are none of them absolute.

In the beginning of heaven and e arth there were no words
Words came out of the womb of matter

And whether a man dispassionately
Sees the core of life

Of passionately
Sees the surface

The core and the surface
Are essentially the same

Words making them seem different
Only to express appearance

If name be needed, wonder names them both
From woner to wonder
Existence opens.

Can you Dan, present evidence contrary to using words?

Can you Dan, take any one into Silent Meditation beyond words and show one the core and surface are essentially the same?

Dan Stated: What evidence do you have that Jesus did this and not Lao Tzu? How have you determined that Lao Tzu didn't "take responsibility to know God aright"?

What evidence can you present that is opposite to the evidentiary answer given above?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

The name is David, Jaffa.

Lao Tzu revealed in the way he spoke simply, directly, authoritatively and unambiguously about the nature of God that he fully understood it and lived it to a high degree.

I have no idea what you mean by "transfiguration". Are you talking about some sort of magic here?

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Lao Tzu as well, but for me, what is the unique genius of Jesus was his realization that not only is thought an infinite continuum and that man is an individual expression of that infinite continuum, that it is upon man to take responsibility for himself to awaken to the truth of himself, and once awakened, be disciplined and obedient to his awakening. To bear his own cross, which in this realm of being awakened of the infinite continuum is the thought-by-thought transcendence of his subjective-objective attachments. For me, it was Jesus' doctrine of taking your own responsibility 'to know God aright' [which, as we know is not the popular interpretation of his message] that made him a truly masterful teacher.

What evidence do you have that Jesus did this and not Lao Tzu? How have you determined that Lao Tzu didn't "take responsibility to know God aright"?

Dan, if you revisit my words above, I did not say that Lao Tzu did not "take responsibility to know God aright", for he did of what he called The Tao; what I said was that what was unique about Jesus was his doctrine of taking your own responsibility to know God aright. His teaching doctrine of being obedient of bearing one's own cross of transcending one's humanism.

Of the three Masters of the Infinite, Lao Tzu, Gautama and Jesus, for me, Jesus was the harshest and most exacting of the three Teachers. His ministry was brief and intense; like a brilliant sword of light he came to show the way to exit one's prison of belief in dualism. His words were blunt and cut to the quick: if you desire to BE the conscious awareness of your infinite Self, you must die to your self-righteous human interpretations of form as a divided image of the earth and be obedient to the righteousness of interpreting form as being only of ONE spirit. His bloody and violent crucifixion, which is unique only to him, is my evidence, to me, that he was one compassionate, in-your-face, serious Master of the infinite way.

Are you and Jufa, by any chance, married?

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Hi Pam,

And, when he steps out into the sunlight, he has indeed make progress. Few get to this point of Self Realization of form. But he is not done, for he has not yet removed the “sun” [sense awareness - the God of man's Idea] from his light. Nor has he begun languaging, for himself, the nature of the forms that abide in the unconditioned Light of Creation. As stated above, it is not until he begins this journey of using human words to light a path for himself of transcendence, that he truly becomes one with the Living Metaphor of the ascension of himself.

When will he “be finished” of the sense realm completely and “be wholly gathered up” unto the infinity/invisibility of himself?” He cannot say, no man can say, and for this reason, he is humbled of the Infinite Thought Continuum of which he knows not. “Of myself, I can do nothing. It is the Father in me, who does the work.”

I get it that the World is a thought bubble in and of itself, that it is built up by thought, logically (intricate web of causation) based on trial by error in terms of good v bad (duality).

That logic applies inside the bubble but doesn't explain the why of it, that there's no logical cause for it existing as it exists in the first place..like it just happened.

Dreamlike.
That's the picture the Masters indicate.

“be wholly gathered up”

Is that playing for the possibility of 'beam me up scotty'. Is that the vision. I thought the production line rolled on till it didn't.

I'm not ignoring you Jufa per se. I'm reading your writings and thankyou. There's a lot to absorb and savor.

David Quinn wrote:The name is David, Jaffa.

Lao Tzu revealed in the way he spoke simply, directly, authoritatively and unambiguously about the nature of God that he fully understood it and lived it to a high degree.

I have no idea what you mean by "transfiguration". Are you talking about some sort of magic here?

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Correction noted by Jaffa concerning your name.

Concerning Lao Tzu, what evidence do you have, outside of what I posted of Lao Tzu's writing that will back you up. Certainly, since you have stated you are one of the four who realize the Spirit authority of those of Christ mind, your evidence will be in your words of authority, like using words of get back at you like Jaffa.

Of course you don't know what the transfiguration is. You have to have a mind imbued with truth to be lead by the Spirit. Is this why you did not answer:

Can you Dan, [David] present evidence contrary to using words?

Can you Dan, [David] take any one into Silent Meditation beyond words and show one the core and surface are essentially the same?

the above questions put to you with the "realizing it" evidence I ask you to present.

These are honest questions of non-antagonisted nature I put to you. Not going to get into the typical degrading debate the intellect uses for defense. Truth need no man to define it with theories, concepts, opinions, for truth defines itself in the living of it unconditionally.

Let us keep this conversation decent I beg!

Never give power to anything person believes is their source of strength - jufa For you David, Jaffa if you prefer.

David Quinn wrote:Are you and Jufa, by any chance, married?

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My purpose is to live the wisdom of becoming unconditioned; for this reason, the answer to your question has no relevance. I neither wish to perpetrate my belief in dualism within myself, nor to project it onto another who is not yet fully awakened.

Hi Pam,

Hi Dennis,

And, when he steps out into the sunlight, he has indeed make progress. Few get to this point of Self Realization of form. But he is not done, for he has not yet removed the “sun” [sense awareness - the God of man's Idea] from his light. Nor has he begun languaging, for himself, the nature of the forms that abide in the unconditioned Light of Creation. As stated above, it is not until he begins this journey of using human words to light a path for himself of transcendence, that he truly becomes one with the Living Metaphor of the ascension of himself.

When will he “be finished” of the sense realm completely and “be wholly gathered up” unto the infinity/invisibility of himself?” He cannot say, no man can say, and for this reason, he is humbled of the Infinite Thought Continuum of which he knows not. “Of myself, I can do nothing. It is the Father in me, who does the work.”

I get it that the World is a thought bubble in and of itself, that it is built up by thought, logically (intricate web of causation) based on trial by error in terms of good v bad (duality).

That logic applies inside the bubble but doesn't explain the why of it, that there's no logical cause for it existing as it exists in the first place..like it just happened.

Dreamlike.
That's the picture the Masters indicate.

Within the bubble of the logic-seeking mind, yes, a cause-seeking I am who has "nowhere to rest his head." The dream of the world, of the earth.

What happens when you envision yourself stepping out of the dream bubble?

Hi Dennis, missed this from my response to you:

Quote:
“be wholly gathered up”

Is that playing for the possibility of 'beam me up scotty'. Is that the vision. I thought the production line rolled on till it didn't.

And what is it that 'stops' the production line?

What happens when you envision yourself stepping out of the dream bubble?

just being in the environment authentically.

mind empty of significance, being there without labelling, no agenda, not seeking.
accessing seamless indivisible whole.
not being clever or cunning.
experiencing absence of meaning.
like a beginner.
Singng 'How great thou art' and getting the cadence just right so the love of the father fills me.
thrilling at the hearing of a birdsong or the crunch of gravel under my feet as I walk.
Just being.
Dopey shit.

movingalways wrote:becoming unconditioned

How can the unconditional ever become? That would make it conditional, on something else allowing it to become.


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Kelly Jones wrote:

movingalways wrote:becoming unconditioned

How can the unconditional ever become? That would make it conditional, on something else allowing it to become.


.

So what condition does music have, or life, or living? but the conditions you place upon them.

And in your placing conditions upon them, does it alter "the law of the Spirit of life" which is unconditional and shows no partiality towards anyone or anything? Life is, what condition is there to life that is not of your conditioning? Think about it Kelly.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

movingalways wrote:

David Quinn wrote:Are you and Jufa, by any chance, married?

-

My purpose is to live the wisdom of becoming unconditioned; for this reason, the answer to your question has no relevance. I neither wish to perpetrate my belief in dualism within myself, nor to project it onto another who is not yet fully awakened.

What do you do for a living?

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And what is it that 'stops' the production line?

I Am

Dennis Mahar wrote:

And what is it that 'stops' the production line?

I Am

But I AM is infinite. Infinite is continuum.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

But I AM is infinite. Infinite is continuum.

I Am That.

I Am That suggests the nature of the infinite continuum. I Am That is not the activity of stopping or transcending the production line of image projecting/attachment within the infinite continuum. What stops the production line is you. If you don't stop the production line of you, who or what will?

movingalways wrote:
becoming unconditioned

How can the unconditional ever become? That would make it conditional, on something else allowing it to become.

Kelly, I did not say that it is my unconditioned awareness that becomes, what I said, was: "my purpose is to live the wisdom of becoming unconditioned."

I am not consciously one with my unconditioned awareness; no one who writes on this forum is consciously one with their unconditioned awareness. For those who seek to be consciously one with their unconditioned awareness, they must become unconditioned (their conditions must be eliminated). An example of such a condition would be one's attachment to Woman, regardless of how gross, how abstract or how subtle is the perception of this attachment. Those who are attached to Woman must become detached from Woman (unconditioned) if they desire to be expanded beyond their human identity.

movingalways wrote:becoming unconditioned

KJ: How can the unconditional ever become? That would make it conditional, on something else allowing it to become.

MA: Kelly, I did not say that it is my unconditioned awareness that becomes, what I said, was: "my purpose is to live the wisdom of becoming unconditioned."

I didn't say anything about awareness. I was talking about the unconditional. That which is free of conditions or dependencies. Logically: that which is ultimately real and ever-present. How on earth could that become?

no one who writes on this forum is consciously one with their unconditioned awareness.

How could one be separate from the unconditional. Awareness is always of the unconditioned.

For those who seek to be consciously one with their unconditioned awareness,

I'm already the unconditional. Where could I go to be separate from it?

An example of such a condition would be one's attachment to Woman, regardless of how gross, how abstract or how subtle is the perception of this attachment. Those who are attached to Woman must become detached from Woman (unconditioned) if they desire to be expanded beyond their human identity.

My human identity is already the unconditional. Non-attachment isn't about detaching oneself, but understanding one's true nature - what is ever-present.


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movingalways wrote:
becoming unconditioned

KJ: How can the unconditional ever become? That would make it conditional, on something else allowing it to become.

MA: Kelly, I did not say that it is my unconditioned awareness that becomes, what I said, was: "my purpose is to live the wisdom of becoming unconditioned."

I didn't say anything about awareness.

Awareness is all there is; awareness is existence. You are aware; that is how you are able to tell me that you didn't say anything about awareness. I am aware; that is how I am able to tell you that awareness is all there is. God or Life or the Tao is aware, that is why and how you are made aware. Logically speaking, what is true of you, is true of that which thought you into being. No separation.

I was talking about the unconditional. That which is free of conditions or dependencies.

Unconditional is an adverb so cannot be named 'the' unconditional. When speaking of that which is free of conditions or dependencies, the correct term is the unconditioned. Adjectives and adverbs are the manifestations of man's conditions and dependencies.

Logically: that which is ultimately real and ever-present. How on earth could that become?

Oh, the arrogance of man that he believes he has the mind of what is real and ever-present. Note that I said 'the mind of.' Of his pure awareness, yes, 'man' is that which is real and ever-present. But the moment man thinks of an object, he is not of that which is real and ever-present. How can that which appears and disappears, be real and ever-present? What I am saying here is at the heart of the teachings of every master of the infinite.

It is man's folly and vanity that he believes that once he has intellectually discovered this 'thing' called 'the infinite' that he has the mind of this 'thing' called 'the infinite.' Think upon this: the mind of man is a relatively new appearance in the thought continuum of I Am That. By his very own discoveries of the evolution of the flesh or matter thought, cockroach consciousness by far precedes the appearance of human consciousness. Before I was human, I was cockroach.

Quote:
no one who writes on this forum is consciously one with their unconditioned awareness.

How could one be separate from the unconditional. Awareness is always of the unconditioned.

Man is not separated from his unconditioned 'being' in actuality, he is "looking through a glass darkly." As most seekers of themselves, you are confusing creation of form with imagination of form. God or Life spoke the Word "let it be, and it was." Creation. Let there be 'tree', and there was 'tree.' Permanent spirit forms of which we know not of their nature except by suggestion. Man, however, cannot speak creation into being, he must think upon what he has heard or read or seen and imagine it into being. Everything of man's thought world is illusory, for it is impermanent. If God or Life were of the same mind as man's, which is impermanent, then you or I would not be here in this very moment, discussing awareness. There is a childhood saying: Only God can make a tree. Can you, Kelly, right here, right now, make a tree?

Quote:
For those who seek to be consciously one with their unconditioned awareness,

I'm already the unconditional. Where could I go to be separate from it?

You are already the unconditioned, but you are not one with the unconditioned. Your human words of resurrected imagined forms give evidence of this.

A note re "unconditional:" It has been my experience that on the path of realizing what must happen within one's consciousness so that one can be one with their nature that IS 'tree' [let there be 'tree' and there was 'tree', I am 'tree'], one must live their life unconditionally. Keep their word to be their word.

Quote:
An example of such a condition would be one's attachment to Woman, regardless of how gross, how abstract or how subtle is the perception of this attachment. Those who are attached to Woman must become detached from Woman (unconditioned) if they desire to be expanded beyond their human identity.

My human identity is already the unconditional.

Everything you believe of being a human being called "Kelly Jones" is of your conditioned belief that you are human. If you had not been told that you were a 'thing' called 'human', you would never have known this of yourself. This is true of everything you have been told of what Kelly Jones is.

Jesus, Gautama, Lao Tzu came to shake loose this arrogant belief of man that God [the unconditioned Mind] is human. I refer you back to the appearance of the human mind in relation to the appearance of the cockroach mind. Humbling, is it not, to come face to face with the truth that the mind of man is but a blip on the radar of the law of the Spirit of life?

movingalways wrote:I am aware; that is how I am able to tell you that awareness is all there is. God or Life or the Tao is aware, that is why and how you are made aware. Logically speaking, what is true of you, is true of that which thought you into being. No separation.

By awareness, do you mean the ability to identify things, to think, to make contrasts, etc.? Or do you mean something that has nothing to do with being conscious, like the state of decomposed cadavers, rain, rocks, galaxies, gases, and that sort of thing?

Or are you really asserting that the latter kind of thing is conscious and thinking? If so, you've got a case and a half to make.


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movingalways wrote:There is a childhood saying: Only God can make a tree. Can you, Kelly, right here, right now, make a tree?

Childish, more like it.

movingalways wrote:There is a childhood saying: Only God can make a tree. Can you, Kelly, right here, right now, make a tree?

prince wrote: Childish, more like it.

Making a statement such as thing without any explanation as to why it is being said, is not wisdom, it is a display of human defensiveness. Can you tell me why what I said above is childish by your wisdom of expansion so that you and I can both enter into honest, impersonal debate and be expanded? If not, then what you have to offer helps no one, most especially yourself.

movingalways wrote:
I am aware; that is how I am able to tell you that awareness is all there is. God or Life or the Tao is aware, that is why and how you are made aware. Logically speaking, what is true of you, is true of that which thought you into being. No separation.

Kelly Jones wrote: By awareness, do you mean the ability to identify things, to think, to make contrasts, etc.? Or do you mean something that has nothing to do with being conscious, like the state of decomposed cadavers, rain, rocks, galaxies, gases, and that sort of thing?

Or are you really asserting that the latter kind of thing is conscious and thinking? If so, you've got a case and a half to make.

I am stating that all there is, is awareness-interpretation.

Pam:

Am That suggests the nature of the infinite continuum. I Am That is not the activity of stopping or transcending the production line of image projecting/attachment within the infinite continuum. What stops the production line is you. If you don't stop the production line of you, who or what will?

Game, set and match!
Thanks Pam.