Why is concealed carry illegal in universities in America?

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:44 pm

Katy wrote:uh... guys? Sane isn't a medical term, it's a legal term that means "knew right from wrong"

True, and not in contradiction with anything I said - although to clarify, I was going with the popular conception of the term sane, as that was the meaning that I perceived that Scott was referring to.

Actually, "knew right from wrong" is a perfectly fine (although I would argue incomplete) way of describing the popular conception of sane as well. There are some people who know right from wrong when they are on medication, and do not know right from wrong when they are off medication - so even with that classification, one who needs to be on medication and is, is sane.
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sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:23 pm

Who cares?

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:52 pm

sschaula wrote:Who cares?

I do, but most people don't care about anyone or anything but themselves. That is actually what this is all about: the "who cares" attitude.
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sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:04 pm

Here was my point:

Insane people take psychiatric drugs. They may be sane when they're on the drugs, but those people are classified as insane.

It had nothing to do with caring for others or not, or any kind of attitude having to do with that.

Jamesh · Post by **Jamesh** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:13 pm

Elizabeth, you are taking too many liberties with your comments in relation to Trevor. He would be right to totally dismiss you, seeing as you are treating him like a boy. Get control of your feminine need to mother.

Jamesh · Post by **Jamesh** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:15 pm

Do sane people take psychiatric drugs?

Ask the people from the college who will now take such drugs as a result of truamatic stress disorders stemming from this incident.

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:47 pm

Jamesh wrote:Elizabeth, you are taking too many liberties with your comments in relation to Trevor. He would be right to totally dismiss you, seeing as you are treating him like a boy. Get control of your feminine need to mother.

How the hell do you get this? He has said the same thing himself, and if I had a bit more energy, I'd go look it up and link it myself.
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Katy · Post by **Katy** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:59 pm

He has said as much. And I'll show you entries from my personal journal from before and after I was medicated that could prove the point, as well. But Scott, if you know the differene between right and wrong on drugs than you are sane on drugs. That's as simple as it gets. "at that moment did they know right from wrong?" That's all the judge wants to know, and all the psychologist is allowed to tell him in most cases.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:18 pm

If you have to take psychiatric drugs you're not considered sane, that's as simple as it gets.

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:42 pm

If you are not willing to consider reason, you are unreasonable. That is as simple as that gets.
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Katy · Post by **Katy** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:43 am

If you ignore facts in favor of your pet theories your irrational. That is as simple as that gets.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:15 am

Why are you both so attached to this? Do you actually disagree that people who take psychiatric medicine are considered insane?

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:20 am

Well, we are both on psychiatric medicine. Other forum members who have disclosed on this forum that they are on psyc meds include Marsha, Trevor, and David Hodges. Do you consider all of us to be insane?
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Katy · Post by **Katy** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:36 am

Yes, Scott. I disagree that anyone can be considered "insane" unless they have committed a crime as the term is a legal term and not a medical term. Additionally, I know right from wrong; thus, I am not insane. And nor is Elizabeth.

ChochemV2 · Post by **ChochemV2** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:57 am

Since I missed the fun part I'll just post my two cents:

Personally, I don't now and never intend on owning a gun. As much as I believe I could trust myself with one I don't trust anyone around me with one and I believe simply owning one increased my chances of being hurt by a gun.

Constitutionally I believe our founders believed our country should have the option of being able to defend ourselves but we have to remember they lived in a time of muskets and cannons which are hardly comparable to the weapons we had today. We must also remember that at the time America was first establishing itself Americans were subject to external violence to a degree which we haven't been for a century (at least) so arming yourself was reasonable.

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is apt in this situation because guns are a fact of life. We can't expect to keep guns out of the hands of people who abuse them whether they are criminals who have free access to guns without even needing to set foot in a store or lunatics (such as the recent school shootings) who are either A.) Criminals who have easy access to firearms or B.) People without a record who could easily buy a gun.

I'll have to finish later but I'd suggest looking up the case U.S. v. Haynes which applies the fifth amendment to gun registration meaning criminals cannot be charged with possession because registering would violate their fifth amendment rights (this, I believe, is the worst application of constitutional law I've ever seen).

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:00 am

Katy,

Yes, Scott. I disagree that anyone can be considered "insane" unless they have committed a crime as the term is a legal term and not a medical term.

So a person with schizophrenia that isn't on meds is sane, so long as they don't commit a crime?

Additionally, I know right from wrong; thus, I am not insane. And nor is Elizabeth.

Most sane people don't even know right from wrong. Your definitions for mental illness are contrived.

I don't mean to offend either of you, but face the facts. You take meds for a reason...so what exactly is your point?

Elizabeth,

Well, we are both on psychiatric medicine.

What is the purpose of psychiatric medicine? If a person is sane, do they need it?

I don't need it. What makes a person need it? You're trying to tell me that mental illness isn't the reason to take it?

Other forum members who have disclosed on this forum that they are on psyc meds include Marsha, Trevor, and David Hodges. Do you consider all of us to be insane?

Yes, of course. While you are taking your meds, you may be capable of thinking rationally and not having emotional ups and downs...that's fine. At that point your mind may be working normally. But I wouldn't call YOU sane. You are your entire body, not just your brain. You are that entire structure minus anything added.

If you have to take something to be sane, it doesn't make you sane. In the same way, if you have to take drugs to get high, it can't be said that you're always high...you come down when you don't take the drugs.

If a person has a cough, can they be said to be in good health when they take cough suppressant? No.

Really, you both are arguing against nothing. I don't think either of you are stupid. It's not bad that you have abnormal brain functioning. You take meds and you're good...so what's the problem? This is just a term - "insane". I'm not trying to be offensive by it, but it's true that it's what you're classified as MEDICALLY.

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:07 am

sschaula wrote:This is just a term - "insane". I'm not trying to be offensive by it, but it's true that it's what you're classified as MEDICALLY.

Nonsense. You can verify with any medical professional you wish - the taking of psychiatric medication by those in need of it does not medically constitute insanity.
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Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:18 am

sschaula wrote:I wouldn't call YOU sane.

You want me to pull this out of you one at a time? What about David Hodges, would you say that he is sane or insane?

sschaula wrote:You are your entire body, not just your brain. You are that entire structure minus anything added.

You really believe that we are our bodies? That's so shallow that there is no reasoning with it - much as there appears to be no reasoning with you.
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Philosophaster · Post by **Philosophaster** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:35 am

"Mental illness" and "insanity" are not equivalent terms (and "insanity" is not a medical term anyway). Applying the word "insanity" to everybody who is mentally ill is like calling all physical health problems "medical emergencies." A person with just depression is not "insane" any more than somebody with just a mild cold has a medical emergency.

"Insane" is a much stronger term, usually applied to people who cannot manage even an appearance of coherent thought or speech, or who cannot distinguish sensory hallucinations from real, persisting objects.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:53 am

"Mental illness" and "insanity" are not equivalent terms (and "insanity" is not a medical term anyway).

Is mental illness a medical term? If so, then replace any time I said "insanity" with it.

Katy · Post by **Katy** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:27 pm

sschaula wrote: So a person with schizophrenia that isn't on meds is sane, so long as they don't commit a crime?

Sane is a legal term and has no medical definition. Thus unless someone is in the legal system, they are neither sane nor insane. I'm not defining mental illness. I'm defining sane which simply means the ability to know right from wrong and has absolutely nothing to do with mental illness.

but it's true that it's what you're classified as MEDICALLY.

And it's clear you don't know what you're talking about. Medically there is no such thing. Get a dictionary, and quit with the QRS-esque definition changing.

And saying "just replace everywhere I said insane with mentally ill" is incredibly ignorant.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:38 pm

Okay, so like I said, lets discuss mentally ill versus not mentally ill. To me, the terms mentally ill and insane were the same. Now they are not, so lets move on.

A person who has to take psychiatric medicine is mentally ill, correct?

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:01 pm

sschaula wrote:A person who has to take psychiatric medicine is mentally ill, correct?

If a person has to take insulin, are they physically ill?

BTW, what is your point?

sschaula wrote:Here was my point:

Insane people take psychiatric drugs. They may be sane when they're on the drugs, but those people are classified as insane.

It had nothing to do with caring for others or not, or any kind of attitude having to do with that.

Alright then, what is your purpose for this line of discussion?
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Unidian · Post by **Unidian** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:03 pm

It started with the woman who was saying stuff about Columbine.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:15 pm

E,

I didn't really have a purpose for my line of discussion. You kept arguing so I kept arguing. I don't like to leave someone without an understanding.

If a person has to take insulin, are they physically ill?

They have diabetes. I wouldn't say they are healthy.