GENIUS FORUMS

David wrote,

Referring to the "I" as a practical reality isn't a distortion. The "I" does actually exist as a practical reality.

Well, one may question then, are there more than one reality’s? Practical and …?

D: I could say, "If Nature causes me to take refuge in the concept of causality as a way of avoiding things, then that will cause problems for me."

S: Why? What makes YOU think that it will cause problems for YOU? After all, it is “nature” that causes “you” to think so, and you KNOW it; so who exactly should be worried here?

D: If Nature causes me to worry, then I worry.

But of course! However, this sounds more like a “religious” or a “fundamental” belief then…

One should enjoy the lighter side of life at times… so pick one… or add one… that reflects your above statement.

Close-to-complete Ideology and Religion Shit List
· Taoism: Shit happens.
· Confucianism: Confucius say, "Shit happens."
· Buddhism: If shit happens, it isn't really shit.
· Zen Buddhism: Shit is, and is not.
· Zen Buddhism #2: What is the sound of shit happening?
· Hinduism: This shit has happened before.
· Islam: If shit happens, it is the will of Allah.
· Catholicism: If shit happens, you deserve it.
· Protestantism: Let shit happen to someone else.
· Presbyterian: This shit was bound to happen.
· Episcopalian: It's not so bad if shit happens, as long as you serve the right wine with it.
· Methodist: It's not so bad if shit happens, as long as you serve grape juice with it.
· Congregationalist: Shit that happens to one person is just as good as shit that happens to another.
· Unitarian: Shit that happens to one person is just as bad as shit that happens to another.
· Lutheran: If shit happens, don't talk about it.
· Fundamentalism: If shit happens, you will go to hell, unless you are born again. (Amen!)
· Fundamentalism #2: If shit happens to a televangelist, it's okay.
· Fundamentalism #3: Shit must be born again.
· Judaism: Why does this shit always happen to us?
· Calvinism: Shit happens because you don't work.
· Seventh Day Adventism: No shit shall happen on Saturday.
· Creationism: God made all shit.
· Secular Humanism: Shit evolves.
· Christian Science: When shit happens, don't call a doctor - pray!
· Christian Science #2: Shit happening is all in your mind.
· Unitarianism: Come let us reason together about this shit.
· Quakers: Let us not fight over this shit.
· Utopianism: This shit does not stink.
· Darwinism: This shit was once food.
· Capitalism: That's MY shit.
· Communism: It's everybody's shit.
· Feminism: Men are shit.
· Chauvinism: We may be shit, but you can't live without us...
· Commercialism: Let's package this shit.
· Impressionism: From a distance, shit looks like a garden.
· Idolism: Let's bronze this shit.
· Existentialism: Shit doesn't happen; shit IS.
· Existentialism #2: What is shit, anyway?
· Stoicism: This shit is good for me.
· Hedonism: There is nothing like a good shit happening!
· Mormonism: God sent us this shit.
· Mormonism #2: This shit is going to happen again.
· Wiccan: An it harm none, let shit happen.
· Scientology: If shit happens, see "Dianetics", p.157.
· Jehovah's Witnesses: >Knock< >Knock< Shit happens.
· Jehovah's Witnesses #2: May we have a moment of your time to show you some of our shit?
· Jehovah's Witnesses #3: Shit has been prophesied and is imminent; only the righteous shall survive its happening.
· Moonies: Only really happy shit happens.
· Hare Krishna: Shit happens, rama rama.
· Rastafarianism: Let's smoke this shit!
· Zoroastrianism: Shit happens half of the time.
· Church of SubGenius: BoB shits.
· Practical: Deal with shit one day at a time.
· Agnostic: Shit might have happened; then again, maybe not.
· Agnostic #2: Did someone shit?
· Agnostic #3: What is this shit?
· Satanism: SNEPPAH TIHS.
· Atheism: What shit?
· Atheism #2: I can't believe this shit!
· Nihilism: No shit.
· And of course we must add...Alcoholics Anonymous: Shit happens-one day at a time!

It isn't a lie to use the term "I" as a practical convenience.

I think you are making the mistake of trying to capture the truth with words and neglecting to realize that language is simply a tool of convenience and nothing more.

Yes, language IS a tool, but not an illusory one; does 1+1=2 apply here or not? it represents exactly what it means. Meanings came far before words. It was the need to express what one means that language arose from, not the other way around. If one cannot express exactly what one means, then one should create new words or a language.

I find your questions on this thread overly-pedantic, which makes them rather boring, yes.

My apologies then… but the word 'boring' should not appear in your vocabulary at all. And remember, there are others who read this forum, and I don’t mind looking like a fool. You just get long with pointing out my foolishness and spread wisdom; I don’t think your government is paying you for anything other than that.

As you must know, I do take the trouble to spell out the truth of causality rather frequently on this forum, but I don't feel compelled to make reference to it in every statement I make. As I say, I rely on the intelligence of the readers to be able to treat language for what it is and to read between the lines.

David, most religions are what they are today because of “reading between the lines” if you ask me, because the lines themselves are so very distorted or incomplete to begin with, that each reads his own interpretations = 'read between the lines'. If all were as intelligent as you, no one would ever question you. Aren’t you here to help the unintelligent? Don’t take “Sapius” too seriously; “I”, and all that “I” say is caused too. There aren’t any inherent problems at all. Isn’t it? So what can one ever be bored of? Grasp the meaning, don't look at the words, isn't that what you mean?

That's right. Causality is always in operation - in everything. But this doesn't negate the validity of using the concepts of "you" and "I". If we didn't make use of these concepts, practical life would become impossible.

A wise person can use these terms and not be fooled by them. He doesn't project anything deluded onto them. He doesn't imagine that they are anything other than practical tools of convenience. He is fully aware that their existence is imaginary only.

You think Jason says anything different in essence? He could be fully aware of exactly the same, but in different words. So since when has language not become a tool then? Isn’t it the meaning behind the words that Jason points too? Why do you filnd his realizations illogical? How do you know the workings of his inner mind, if language is but a tool? If you say the meanings should match, then words become redundant, don’t they? And if you say that you cannot know him without his words, then words should necessarily mean what they mean. How different should/could the meaning be from the word that it points to?

It depends on the meaning that the person uttering this sentence is giving it. The wording is largely irrelevant. The meaning is all important.

A Buddha could say, "I am going to the shop because I am hungry" and he would be a thousand times more truthful than a deluded person who says, "Nature is causing the experience of hunger, and thus this body which is conventionally labeled as 'mine' is being caused to want to go to the shop".

But you could never get into another mind and actually know that, so by what criterion can you really judge others?

Both causality and forms are involved. Causality cannot operate without forms, nor is it ever separate from them. Wherever there is causality, there are forms, and wherever there are forms, there is causality.

Well, keep mentioning this every time you mention causality by its self, or call "it" a "creator".

S: Well, I say that causality "creates" all things; including forms, which are made capable of bearing fruits according to their own caused nature, which however work through the process of causality but not causality directly, hence the diversities in the nature of each individual thing. Causality is not God, for it is necessarily dependent on things, forms if you like, and vice versa. In fact, “causality” is not an underlying force of some profound kind, but is just the effect we experience because of the dynamic interactivity of forms itself.

D: Right.

So stop professing that causality “creates”. It necessarily places you in a different bracket and others get bored. They can too.

S: Hence, one could say that causality is the real illusion if any, especially if one takes IT for an Ultimate “creator”, and not the dynamically shifting forms from which we sense such “creative power”.

D: Again, it depends on how it is done....

Again? How do you know how Jason’s or other's mind works?

The only way we can conceive of causality…

NOT NECESSARILY, David. Reality does not dictate a “way” to realize nor does it have any such need. How is it that reality is so partial that it causes only you to be so intelligent? Or only those who YOU think are? I say... the ONLY WAY is Allah, and you are a moron if you don’t understand what I really mean, so don't go by my words. Is that it? How am “I” (“I” in the biggest font possible) wrong in anyway if reality causes me to say that???

For example, 1+1=2 and 1+1=3 are both causally created, yet only one of them is true.

Yessss... so? The point was; causality creates their definitions too, and creates the meaning too, and creates truth and false, and creates you and me, and creates you to realize and me to not. So? As if there is a choice on our part, so either way none are to be credited or blamed. And if the means it self are bameless, then what real values do ourcomes have?

[laughs]

I got that shit list via email a few years ago now. It's great. Definitely this one for me, Sapius:

· Atheism #2: I can't believe this shit!

Leyla Shen wrote:[laughs]

I got that shit list via email a few years ago now. It's great. Definitely this one for me, Sapius:

· Atheism #2: I can't believe this shit!

Hahahahhaaa.... Same here! Never could really; for as long as I can remember :D

I find that list a great piece of philosophy, though. :D