GENIUS FORUMS

Where doth it come from?

When you realize it was likely created by evolution and social nurture can you still take it seriously?

Everything was created by nature, nature, or some combination of the two. Your point?

Conscience can enable a person to accrue self-reliance.

As it is the voice of one's better interest.

Usually when you are required by mind to rethink something, that is your conscience at work.

Steven Coyle wrote:As it is the voice of one's better interest.

One's better interest gets dictated by the influences on one as one develops as a child?

Steven Coyle wrote:Usually when you are required by mind to rethink something, that is your conscience at work.

Conscience has warped into some humane drive to hurt nobody and leave nobody behind.

Unidian wrote:Everything was created by nature, nature, or some combination of the two. Your point?

I can see how people could take their conscience seriously if they thought God was up there dictating to them and they would go to hell if they disobeyed. However now that we know it has no meaning and that it actually seeks to conform us to society and weaken us, why should we listen to it?

Neil Melnyk wrote:

Unidian wrote:Everything was created by nature, nature, or some combination of the two. Your point?

I can see how people could take their conscience seriously if they thought God was up there dictating to them and they would go to hell if they disobeyed. However now that we know it has no meaning and that it actually seeks to conform us to society and weaken us, why should we listen to it?

It only holds one back most of the time, from my experience. I clearly remember how this delusional, vague and inexplicable concept worked directly at my disadvantage.

Nietzsche talked about how it is a result of constraints exerted on man by the onset of civilization if I remember correctly. And it seems it really is a prerequisite for civilization, which, of course, does not mean those above the herd are to be affected by it.

I never thought much about conscience.

Boyan wrote:It only holds one back most of the time, from my experience.

Yes. "I ought to say 'NO' on matter of principle...."

Boyan wrote:Nietzsche talked about how it is a result of constraints exerted on man by the onset of civilization if I remember correctly. Therefore it is a prerequisite for civilization, which, of course, does not mean those above the herd are to be affected by it.

Yes. I think it is a technique used to keep people in line and nothing more. Those herd members who didn't fall in line were removed and thus it only makes sense that the herd would end up all falling in line. The masters probably rationalized it somehow that it was "right" to do X, Y, and Z, and or in other cases they rationalized it themselves because they were too weak to do otherwise. Then when the herd overthrew the masters they were all eliminated and now it is no surprise that the whole society is largely affected.

So Nietzsche might support it for keeping the masses in line, but I don't think they would follow one.

Neil Wrote:

When you realize it was likely created by evolution and social nurture can you still take it seriously?

Yes, but an enlightened man goes through a transformation in terms of his conscience. For instance: the vulgar man indignantly disapproves of things such as gay marriage, lazy people that don’t contribute to society, terrorists that threaten his tribal association with country, child molesters, and so on. So his conscience is dictated by his biology. However, an enlightened man may still disapprove of some of these things, but not in an emotional way, and only if these things conflict with what he values, which is ultimately enlightenment/wisdom itself.

So if someone is interested in wisdom on GF, but they are very attached to a woman, then he will disprove of this behavior because he knows that non-attachment is a necessary condition for enlightenment.

His values or conscience is serving wisdom, not his animalistic ego. Most people’s conscience is centered on preserving many different types of material security, whether financial or sexual, and that is why they are so dishonest.

Neil Melnyk wrote:

Steven Coyle wrote:As it is the voice of one's better interest.

One's better interest gets dictated by the influences on one as one develops as a child?

This may be true. But knowing this, one may be inclined to reprogram. And conscience can also serve that purpose as one makes their way through life.

Steven Coyle wrote:Usually when you are required by mind to rethink something, that is your conscience at work.

Conscience has warped into some humane drive to hurt nobody and leave nobody behind.

Hmm, good point.

I have forgotten the power of saying 'No' - as a matter of principle.

Are we talking about moral or intellectual conscience here?

What's the definition of intellectual conscience?

Most intellectual problems are still a reflection of one's ethics.

Ryan Rudolph wrote:His [the enlightened man's] values or conscience is serving wisdom, not his animalistic ego.

Lol you are a joke pal.

Well, I'm an athiest, I believe that I have found sentience... it is not what I expected it to be. It is closer to Godlike than I wanted it to be, it goes against my thinking. In it's simplest form it wants to move, and that is what it tries to do the most. It then tries to examine things around it, and it tries to maintain its shape. I can't figure out the leap from bubble, to thinking bubble. So therefore I don't think that it evolved at all. There must have always been a will to move at least. Why is it that the most basic intelligence wants to move? This is.. I suppose my next project.

Dan: Are we talking about moral or intellectual conscience here?

Steven: What's the definition of intellectual conscience? Most intellectual problems are still a reflection of one's ethics.

Our moral conscience generally springs from our herdly values and our psychological connection to the herd. Our ethical determinations and instincts tend not to be things constructed on the basis of a personal understanding of issues of reality, but simply responses to our need to belong and be accepted. Intellectual conscience is really nothing more than the desire to be logically consistent in all things. To the degree that intellectual conscience is driven by moral considerations it is likely being affected and directed by herdly instincts.

Neil wrote:

Lol you are a joke pal.

If I remember correctly, you were the one fantasizing about solving the world’s problems with grand acts of violence. That would be serving ones ego, and not the absolute truth. Violent thoughts are an emotional response of the ego, and it is a joke that you actually take that aspect of your mind seriously.

you have a conscience as well Neil, but it is heavily distorted by emotional preferences.

Both moral and intellectual conscience are needed to combat the ego.

Conscience is just the emotion of unsurety - henids in your sub-conscience are telling you something is not quite right. It is telling you that your ego may lead you into danger, and that you must think and reevaluate your current activities - it is a prompter for the mind to force it to rationally examine these henids for veracity. Pity greed tends to override it in terms of bodily desires, though even this might be required to overcome a descent into utter herdliness.

I don't necessarily fully agree with it, or think it tells the whole story, but an interesting quote:

"Civilization, therefore, obtains mastery over the individual's dangerous desire for aggression by weakening and disarming it and by setting up an agency within him to watch over it, like a garrison in a conquered city."

from Civilization and Its Discontents by Sigmund Freud

What's up with these terms: Con-science?

nitty-gritty wrote:What's up with these terms: Con-science?

Con =

To study, peruse, or examine carefully.

To direct the steering or course

An argument or opinion against something.

To apply one's mind to the acquisition or production of knowledge

To look at carefully or critically: check (out), examine, go over, inspect, peruse, scrutinize, study, survey, traverse, view. Informal case. Idioms: give a going-over. See investigate.

Science =

The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.

Con - science
i.e.:

Steven Coyle wrote:Conscience can enable a person to accrue self-reliance.

As it is the voice of one's better interest.

Usually when you are required by mind to rethink something, that is your conscience at work.

pretty pertinent term imo. Healthy, developed frontal lobe, is a pre-requisite for conscience.

Depression can be treated with lobotomy.
I wonder, do psychopats with their "emotional emptiness" also get bouts of depression? hmm.

Should I be worried if I don't get it?

nitty-gritty wrote:Should I be worried if I don't get it?

Why are you asking us, what kind of emotion you should feel in response to such a fact?

(Joy = emotion)
(Bliss = emotion therefore?)
Ignorance is bliss? Worry is emotion too.

It's deep how you can be so shallow. - Not by me.

nitty-gritty wrote:Should I be worried if I don't get it?

Only, if you think that will help?

ps. I will keep calm myself.

Damn bots!