GENIUS FORUMS

Farm life was not that hard. I was born on a farm in 1939, and remember it. Even back when we only used draft horses, it was the horses who got sweaty much more than we did.

Everyone knows about the farmer up at dawn to do the milking. but dont know that after that's done, he's on the couch snoozing- either in the afternoon when its hot, or in the morning when its cold. Yes there's times when it was a real fucking bitch, like in August trying to get the grain in before it got rained on. But that's only during those few weeks of the year when the grain is ready.

Then, after the small grains, wheat, oats, rye.. there's a break of a few more weeks til the maize is ready. But that can handle exposure to wet weather much better. You can let it stand out in the field as long as a storm dont blow it down, maybe even until the snow flies.

Firewood usta be a bitch, but then chainsaws came in, and what had been 3-5 weeks of ass busting work was cut by 75%. From then on until spring plowing, mostly slack time. do the milking morning & evening, spend 20 minutes a day collecting the eggs, and loaf in the house except for those few days when its nice enuf to go out to disk up the corn stubble, or plant winter wheat.

Then in spring, it was behind the horses again *riding* the equipment to plow, disk and drill the seed. Soils vary, but its not unreasonable to expect a good team with a double bottom plow to do 10 acres in the morning, and another team do 10 in the afternoon. 20 acres/day, even at 40 bu/acre, at the current price, 8.41$/bu that's nearly 7000$ worth of wheat for *every day* spent plowing if the harvest comes in. No wonder the Amish landholdings are expanding in MO.

And after you plant wheat, you dont do anything to it until you harvest it. But you gotta know just when to do that. Too late, and it'll fall off the stalks, too early and it wont bring a good price and need to be dried. Farming that is done with *smarts* is not that hard. But like musicians, artists, lawyers, etc. some people are born to it. And if you are not, you cant wait to get outta there. The dummies left for mindless jobs in the cities a couple generations ago. Which has something to do with why half the Green Berets are farm boys.

Faust13 wrote:hsandman is definitely correct in most things, whereas Vic doesn't really see the real problems behind the facade of 'progress' 'civilization' and the link. Vic doesn't really see the sacrifices made by most people in order for a few people to benefit.

'Faust' doesn't really understand basic arithmetic.

Average Joe today is immeasurably better off than the average Joe 5 centuries ago or 5 millenia ago. What's more, whereas before the society was more pyramidal in shape, with vast impoverished underclass supporting the lifestyles of the rich few on top, today the society is more diamond-shaped, with most people being some type of middle-class.

'most people' are the ones who had benefited the most from this change.

'Civilisation' began with agriculture, which was one of the biggest disasters in human history. Agriculture actually increased famines and starvation, since they were relying on it, instead of remaining hunter-gatherers, who today are still thriving and not starving as most would believe, and who would be living just fine if we didn't keep pestering them.

yeah, with life expectancy of about 30 yrs. Sure, it was more egalitarian. You were also incredibly likely to die with a stone ax embedded in your skull. And things like books?.. Fuggedaboutit!

Agriculture was the beginning of slavery, the beginning of cities, when groups rounded up people from the outskirts as slaves, the beginning of 'kings and queens' of the few rich and powerful, literally stepping over the dead bodies of the underlings. Civilisation was the beginning of the 'division of labour' the beginning of widespread exploitation and privelages. Paleontology has actually showed that hunter gatherers were taller and lived longer than their counterparts in agriculture societies,

Early on, yes; but the agricultural societies won, because they produced more excess food and thus were able to specialize.

have you noticed how hunter-gatherer societies have produced precious little philosophy? art? science?..

due to the excessive physical labour they were forced to do to satisfy material greed. Civilisation was the beginning of mass warfare and regimented armies, the puppets of the few who are really in charge.

yes, it was. However, we right now are way better off than hunter-gatherers ever were.

Hunter gatherers aren't forced to do shit jobs unlike today.

Great! Become a hunter-gatherer!

Have you wondered why most people don't join neo-primitive hunter-gatherer bands?..

In today's society, most people work shit jobs, while the few and powerful get everything. There's nothing 'fair' or 'efficient' about this. The division of labour is not progress, it's exploitation. Most of us aren't farmers, so we don't know the shit life they go through. Technology hasn't even made us work less, it seems the more technology we have the MORE we work. Farmers work well over 8 hours a day, say 13 hours, most of it physical labour.

Exactly. And most people don't. For centuries now, the overall trend has been to work less, yet produce more.

As for life expectancy and the infant mortality rate, yes it's going up, but to what end???

Ask someone who is dying or who has lost a child, asshole. how nice of you to judge on others' behalf that their lives are worthless!

As for 'economics,' Vic is stupid to naively worship the usual 'free market' rubbish.

hahaha. Do you actually know anything about economics, outside your emotive logorrhea?

The modern global economy is a hoax, a swindle and a robbery.

yeah! you tell it them, man! You should be typing on a computer organically grown in your local worker cooperative!

Just think what would happen if all the third world countries suddenly raised their wages to 14$ an hour (which is what it should be) lowered the working hours to 7, and raised health and environmental regulations, the conglomerate multinationals will likely collapse, will lose billions in profits, and so on and so on. Then will you see REALITY. Most technology, clothing, cars, and other 'conveniences' are made under wage slavery, hardly progress.

That is true. However, even if the entire world worked for living wage, our state would still be immeasurably better off than that of your typical hunter-gatherer.

Vic is a real idiot when it comes to conspiracies. The Federal Reserve??? It's a PRIVATE CENTRAL BANKING CARTEL you jackass.

haha. Dude, do you have any idea about fiscal policy, jackass? Central banks all over the world are separate from government, specifically so that they could make sound fiscal decisions without undue influence from politics. This is how it's supposed to be, moron.

It's not a government institution, it is subject to no audit, it is a private bank, which prints money out of nothing, and sells it with interest to the US government

Go back to macro-econ 101, idiot.

and so the endless deficits and debaucherous exploitation of hard working Americans continues. The Skull and Bones? Doesn't worry you that elected officials are in an obscure satanic secret society that was originally called the Brotherhood of Death? What does it mean for elected officials to belong in societies that no one knows what the fuck they are?? What kind of an idiot trusts that? Let's see, the ongoing domination of American politics by Zionism, billions funded to the Zionist terrorist state of israel, with no Jewish foundation, or any foundation whatsoever. BTW, the Bank of England is also a private bank, the same people who control the federal reserve, ever heard of Rothschilds? They're also Zionists. Then you have Israel intentionally destroying the USS Liberty, with America accepting the 'apology' with no congressional investigation or hearing whatsoever.

Wow, you are truly nuts, you know that?.. A clueless git. Zionists control the world, yeah! Why don't you just whip out the Protocols while you are at it?..

BTW, if the zionists run the world, where the fuck is my check? A nice jewish boy, and no shkalim from the zionist elders for being a part of the Zionist Problem?!. What does a guy have to do to get some ill-gotten gains around here?!.

Our universities award anyone who makes 'impressive' publications, not things of any value that lower the working hours or reveal the conspiracies.

hahaha. Are you listening to yourself?

It seems that large powerful organisations are taking over every aspect of our lives, and making us work harder and longer and shittier jobs for the benefit of a few, it's always been like that. 8 hours is worthless if we can't enjoy it with our 'life expectancy.'

Great. Live off the land! move into the wilds of Africa or something, and become a hunter-gatherer! Or go into subsistence agriculture!

Wait, let me guess. you don't have the requisite mad skillz, and it's all The Man's fault! Yeah, down with The Man!

Pincho Paxton:

I think (?) you are trying to describe this? Geometric Universe.

You just need to be more coherent in your posts i guess.

I can't judge if this theory is right or wrong (we have vic for that),but the idea that universe is a product of pure geometry sounds intriguing. You need to learn math though, if you want to take that further.

I, believe in elegance through simplicity. There is nothing more elegant and simple than geometry imo. =)

(insert a token wise crack from vic lol)

I am simply saying that the universe is divided into a hexagon grid of invisible bubbles. The bubbles were round, but squashed together into hexagons. They are invisible because they are not made of matter which we have sensors to detect. Each hexagon contains sentience which guides photons (which actually do not exist. The glow is actually the sentient plasma glowing.) The sentience is the controller of nature. It is between you and your wall, and has a machine like quality of hexagons, and wires for waves. It is the maker of light, gravity, magnetism, and thinking. It also creates all particles from various mixtures of positive, and negative energy. Each hexagon can hold 3 atoms, which are recreated as something moves along. So when we walk, we are recreated atom, by atom, and walk as a sort of animation. I came to all of these conclusions by studying quantum physics for 30 years, and having to realise the two slit experiment, the spooky effect at a distance, the Bose Einstein Condensation experiment, magnetism, gravity, and sentience. I also had to figure out how a wave can travel through space, which is supposed to be a void, and a wave is to complex to move through a void. It has to bend up, and down like a snake. All of these things require a shape, and a certain amount of intelligence to guide them. This would be a hexagon with a sentient partnership. I saw this shape in a snowflake, and took a snowflake as my best bet for life on Earth. It's water, it has 6 limbs, it can grow, it can fall from the sky, and then I don't know. There is also a natural fear of things with the wrong number of limbs.. spiders with 8 limbs are scary. Snakes with no limbs are scary. People with imbalanced features are not so attractive.

Why does the haxagon have to include sentience? Because of how it effects the two slit experiment. The observer is part of the experiment. Therefore his eyes are part of the experiment. Therefore his eyes effect the outcome of the experiment. Therefore his eyes are sending a signal through the experiment. The photon (I'll keep the photon until it is realised that it doesn't exist.) heads towards a photo sensitive paper. This is where the photon gets intelligent. If you do not look at the paper, the photon randomly chooses an electron to hit.. it makes a wave pattern. If you do look at the experiment the photon will hit a central electron, and the wave is gone. Now the electron, and the photon are both in the middle of the hexagon. I would conclude from this that the centre of the hexagon is where sentience is found. A hexagon with a circle centre. Now to further enhance this shape we need to add the gravity, and the magnetism. We need to add the waves to the hexagon. The way that I added waves to the hexagon was to add wires that flow with the amount of energy at the centre of the hexagon. The wires came out of the hexagon in 6 directions, and I was then looking at a snowflake. It could be a coincidence that it looks like a snowflake. It could be a naturally occuring shape in nature. However, it is easy to imagine the sentience trapped in a block of ice, and dropping to the Earth, with 6 limbs, and fitting the design of most of nature. How you get from ice to biological body, is not easy. Don't know, haven't studied it yet. But, after much research, I have found a model that fixes Physics to Quantum Physics, and gets rid of anomalies. My theory is not as wild as it seems, because it happens through natural shape forming from bubbles. My theory is infact way simpler than the Big Bang. No singularity of compressed nature boosting outwards in a massive explosion. Just bubbles, pressing together, to make hexagons, to make waves, to bump, to make particles, to mix, to make bigger particles, to spin, to join, to get faster, and faster... all just a sloshing sea of matter. And finally, a room divided by tiny hexagons, and the void of space is not a void, but a substance that can develop a wave, and push it outwards. Without all of this.. with science... you have a wave that is just another word. A wave in science without any propulsion is a magic carpet ride.

Victor is right in a sense. Although, civilization has largely progressed through the suffering of the masses, so I agree with parts of the negative critiques in this thread, as the progress of history has been paved by the plight of the working class. However, as Victor stated, technology is slowly making things easier for people, and it would be counterintuitive to revert back to a more primitive existence. I’m quite optimistic that economy-transforming technology is on its way; technology that one day will make it possible to replicate food from raw atoms, or produce enough energy for an entire city by manipulating the atom or some small packet of quantum energy.

When material security becomes incredibly easy to obtain, and more of humanity becomes wise, I think the stock market will probably vanish from existence, and will no longer be needed. Moreover, technology seems to be moving into smaller and smaller spaces, and creating much more energy/efficiency in the process.

Eventually only a small number of humans will have to perform labor, as the remaining tasks will be automated by A.I. So I’m optimistic for the future, but I’m also acutely aware of the suffering that was needed to get us here.

Pincho Paxton wrote:

Pincho Paxton:

I think (?) you are trying to describe this? Geometric Universe.

You just need to be more coherent in your posts i guess.

I can't judge if this theory is right or wrong (we have vic for that),but the idea that universe is a product of pure geometry sounds intriguing. You need to learn math though, if you want to take that further.

I, believe in elegance through simplicity. There is nothing more elegant and simple than geometry imo. =)

(insert a token wise crack from vic lol)

I am simply saying that the universe is divided into a hexagon grid of invisible bubbles. The bubbles were round, but squashed together into hexagons. They are invisible because they are not made of matter which we have sensors to detect. Each hexagon contains sentience which guides photons (which actually do not exist. The glow is actually the sentient plasma glowing.) The sentience is the controller of nature. It is between you and your wall, and has a machine like quality of hexagons, and wires for waves. It is the maker of light, gravity, magnetism, and thinking. It also creates all particles from various mixtures of positive, and negative energy. Each hexagon can hold 3 atoms, which are recreated as something moves along. So when we walk, we are recreated atom, by atom, and walk as a sort of animation. I came to all of these conclusions by studying quantum physics for 30 years, and having to realise the two slit experiment, the spooky effect at a distance, the Bose Einstein Condensation experiment, magnetism, gravity, and sentience. I also had to figure out how a wave can travel through space, which is supposed to be a void, and a wave is to complex to move through a void. It has to bend up, and down like a snake. All of these things require a shape, and a certain amount of intelligence to guide them. This would be a hexagon with a sentient partnership. I saw this shape in a snowflake, and took a snowflake as my best bet for life on Earth. It's water, it has 6 limbs, it can grow, it can fall from the sky, and then I don't know. There is also a natural fear of things with the wrong number of limbs.. spiders with 8 limbs are scary. Snakes with no limbs are scary. People with imbalanced features are not so attractive.

Why does the haxagon have to include sentience? Because of how it effects the two slit experiment. The observer is part of the experiment. Therefore his eyes are part of the experiment. Therefore his eyes effect the outcome of the experiment. Therefore his eyes are sending a signal through the experiment. The photon (I'll keep the photon until it is realised that it doesn't exist.) heads towards a photo sensitive paper. This is where the photon gets intelligent. If you do not look at the paper, the photon randomly chooses an electron to hit.. it makes a wave pattern. If you do look at the experiment the photon will hit a central electron, and the wave is gone. Now the electron, and the photon are both in the middle of the hexagon. I would conclude from this that the centre of the hexagon is where sentience is found. A hexagon with a circle centre. Now to further enhance this shape we need to add the gravity, and the magnetism. We need to add the waves to the hexagon. The way that I added waves to the hexagon was to add wires that flow with the amount of energy at the centre of the hexagon. The wires came out of the hexagon in 6 directions, and I was then looking at a snowflake. It could be a coincidence that it looks like a snowflake. It could be a naturally occuring shape in nature. However, it is easy to imagine the sentience trapped in a block of ice, and dropping to the Earth, with 6 limbs, and fitting the design of most of nature. How you get from ice to biological body, is not easy. Don't know, haven't studied it yet. But, after much research, I have found a model that fixes Physics to Quantum Physics, and gets rid of anomalies. My theory is not as wild as it seems, because it happens through natural shape forming from bubbles. My theory is infact way simpler than the Big Bang. No singularity of compressed nature boosting outwards in a massive explosion. Just bubbles, pressing together, to make hexagons, to make waves, to bump, to make particles, to mix, to make bigger particles, to spin, to join, to get faster, and faster... all just a sloshing sea of matter. And finally, a room divided by tiny hexagons, and the void of space is not a void, but a substance that can develop a wave, and push it outwards. Without all of this.. with science... you have a wave that is just another word. A wave in science without any propulsion is a magic carpet ride.

Sounds a lot like 18th century Bengalese Saint Ramprasad, who said, among other things, that everything you see is part of a projected matrix out of the mind of Kali. Who also said that it all began with bubbles.

Sounds a lot like 18th century Bengalese Saint Ramprasad, who said, among other things, that everything you see is part of a projected matrix out of the mind of Kali. Who also said that it all began with bubbles.

Well, yes that sounds exactly right.

The Matrix we live on is kinda spooky. Ramprasad got the idea of bubbles from the Vedas. Campbell talks about it also, explaining that painting of naked Venus, being carried to the shore on a huge shell, is because the creation myth having to do with Her, said that She was born of foam. ie, bubbles.

How did they figure that out way back then? Even 200 years ago is mysterious. What is it that those dudes were studying, and did they only have thot experiments? Take a look at 'fractle.gif at http://dc-pc.org/artifax/artifax.html; how did the Minoans, over 3600 years ago, know about *fractles*? There's a lotta weird stuff besides crop circles.

What the bloody hell are you talking about? What makes you believe Minoans knew about fractals? What makes you believe the talk of bubbles has anything to do with reality?

Hellenic idea of atoms was much more ahead of its time than the sea foam Aphrodite was born from.

Your link is broken BTW.

Those "fractals" look more like ink blot images to me.

Cant prove they are fractles without being able to zoom in and out. But note the lack of symmetry around the central form. Those have been called "shields", but I dunno. there's so little Minoan imagery of warcraft, and they look kinda skinny to be militarily useful. But every image around every one of these is different. Which is what'd you expect if a fractle formula were applied to the space around each 'shield'.

Other ancient artists didnt do this. They were real big on symmetry and obvious representation. but what do these chaotic forms represent?

In any case, the universe is best described as a collection of galactic clusters on the surface of bubbles. The original Aryan creation myth, outlined by Campbell and others, says that chaos, not god, was the primordial state. One explanation for how the prehistoric Aryans arrived at this comes out of their known use of powerful psychedelics. And if you get really fucked up, you can reach a state of mind that is totally chaotic, but also passive. Its too chaotic to have the motivation to do anything. But now, as you come out of this, the occipital lobes start to organize what you see in patterns. Paisley is pretty common. But before paisley, before it can get that organized are the simpler fractles like... bubbles.

So- later on, the next day, week, moon... the sage remembers the sequence of organization from chaos all the way back to what passes for reality. You can see that programming this screen to go from snow to foam is a very small step.

vicdan wrote:today the society is more diamond-shaped, with most people being some type of middle-class.

actually, the middle-class is slowly vanishing, the gap between rich and poor is getting larger. Rich people get richer, poor people get poorer.

yeah, with life expectancy of about 30 yrs. Sure, it was more egalitarian. You were also incredibly likely to die with a stone ax embedded in your skull.

um, not necessarily. Civilization began the regimented army, civilisation allowed for mass carnage warfare. Yes tribes fought too, but not to the sheer scale as States, especially today, States are still going around with too much power fucking the world over.

And things like books?.. Fuggedaboutit!

not true. If you have lots of time on your hands which tribes did, you can easily make books. Just because many tribes didn't do that doesn't mean it's physically impossible.

Early on, yes; but the agricultural societies won, because they produced more excess food and thus were able to specialize.

'won'??? They won by conquering and enslaving the surrounding populations.

have you noticed how hunter-gatherer societies have produced precious little philosophy? art? science?..

doesn't mean that the structure of hunter-gatherers doesn't allow for that. It's cultural too.

yes, it was. However, we right now are way better off than hunter-gatherers ever were.

what is 'way better off'??? Certainly not paying taxes for international wars, and taxes for things and to people I don't support. Certainly not big government and continuous corruption. Certainly not the regimentation of working hours and bosses and land lords, and industrial waste which causes alot of diseases.

Great! Become a hunter-gatherer!

why not? I think farmers should stop farming over 10 hours a day and start enjoying themselves more. That'll teach you to 'work' for yourself.

Have you wondered why most people don't join neo-primitive hunter-gatherer bands?

yes, because they're socialized into thinking that their other life is better, they are addicted to 'things' so they feel pain when they think of losing those 'things'. Consequently they remain slaves. Other people cannot do it out of infrastructure and lack of knowing what to do.

In today's society, most people work shit jobs, while the few and powerful get everything. There's nothing 'fair' or 'efficient' about this. The division of labour is not progress, it's exploitation. Most of us aren't farmers, so we don't know the shit life they go through. Technology hasn't even made us work less, it seems the more technology we have the MORE we work. Farmers work well over 8 hours a day, say 13 hours, most of it physical labour.

Exactly. And most people don't. For centuries now, the overall trend has been to work less, yet produce more.

what? Exactly what? Most people work 8 hours a day and more, and a few have to suffer working more. not to mention commuting, cleaning, cooking, etc.. Hell most people can't even EAT WELL because of their 'busy schedules' hardly an 'improvement'. The overall trend has been to work less and produce more?? It's not showing up. More like work more and produce more. We've had 8 hour days for a bit over a century now, when's it going to lower?

Ask someone who is dying or who has lost a child, asshole. how nice of you to judge on others' behalf that their lives are worthless!

everyone dies it's inevitable. Humans have this retarded notion that 'life is sacred' and that only THEIR life is the best life, of course there's no good argument or objective evidence for such a claim, merely a self-serving one, no inherent value or substance as to think why they're 'special.'

hahaha. Do you actually know anything about economics, outside your emotive logorrhea?

*yawn* free markets obviously lead to monopolies, then to oligopolies. Competition becomes friendly, not predatory. With today's conglomerates that's not much of 'free market.' Those same conglomerates are lobbying and literally bribing governments to get more for themselves and less for everybody else.

Just think what would happen if all the third world countries suddenly raised their wages to 14$ an hour (which is what it should be) lowered the working hours to 7, and raised health and environmental regulations, the conglomerate multinationals will likely collapse, will lose billions in profits, and so on and so on. Then will you see REALITY. Most technology, clothing, cars, and other 'conveniences' are made under wage slavery, hardly progress.

That is true. However, even if the entire world worked for living wage, our state would still be immeasurably better off than that of your typical hunter-gatherer.

how would it be better off???? Atleast hunter gatherers had ample TIME to enjoy their actual life, they're not living to work, they're working to live. And the rest of the world doesn't work for living wage, they're certainly not 'living' if they spend 12 hours working for peanuts, not to mention many DYING simply due to working. Their work is literally KILLING them, they're not 'accidents.' Until the rest of the world has the same benefits as we do we simply don't deserve alot of our wealth, of course honesty and 'deserving' are unimportant trifles to you.

Vic is a real idiot when it comes to conspiracies. The Federal Reserve??? It's a PRIVATE CENTRAL BANKING CARTEL you jackass.

haha. Dude, do you have any idea about fiscal policy, jackass? Central banks all over the world are separate from government, specifically so that they could make sound fiscal decisions without undue influence from politics. This is how it's supposed to be, moron.

Is italicizing 'jackass' gonna help you here? no it's not, just makes you look like a goof ball. Central banks aren't supposed to be seperate from the government, the American Constitution certainly doesn't approve of such a thing. 'Sound' decisions?? So you think a private banking cartel, that makes a PROFIT from the simple public service of currency is making 'sound' decisions??? Oh brother, even Milton Friedman saw the insanity of the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve isn't there to make sound decisions dude, it doesn't even release an audit. It's a private bank that sells money to the government, on interest, in order for you to pay never-ending debt. Instead, the government is supposed to create its own money debt-free. No wonder american deficit really started up after the Reserve was created, even Friedman saw that. If the government and consequently the people don't decide on the 'sound' policy, then who the hell will?? A private banking oligapoly that's solely interested in robbing people? Most of The Federal Reserve isn't even owned by Americans, just the same international bankers of Europe.

Go back to macro-econ 101, idiot.

yeah I did, and it stated, "central banks cannot be private oligapolies without the control of the public, charing interest on money that isn't even backed by anything to the public in order to create never-ending debt and thus billions in personal profits."

and so the endless deficits and debaucherous exploitation of hard working Americans continues. The Skull and Bones? Doesn't worry you that elected officials are in an obscure satanic secret society that was originally called the Brotherhood of Death? What does it mean for elected officials to belong in societies that no one knows what the fuck they are?? What kind of an idiot trusts that? Let's see, the ongoing domination of American politics by Zionism, billions funded to the Zionist terrorist state of israel, with no Jewish foundation, or any foundation whatsoever. BTW, the Bank of England is also a private bank, the same people who control the federal reserve, ever heard of Rothschilds? They're also Zionists. Then you have Israel intentionally destroying the USS Liberty, with America accepting the 'apology' with no congressional investigation or hearing whatsoever.

Wow, you are truly nuts, you know that?.. A clueless git. Zionists control the world, yeah! Why don't you just whip out the Protocols while you are at it?..

they control the powerful countries, maybe not Iran and North Korea and Cuba. But they sure as hell control the US, England, alot of Europe, etc... Everything in the Protocols is happening in front of our eyes, I doubt it's a forgery, there's no evidence that it's a forgery, so it could very well be real. Either way, most of the things in it are happening. And I didn't say it's only Zionists, I mentioned the Skull and Bones, and Freemasons have alot of power, Bilderbergs, Rockefellers, etc etc... There's enough evidence to show that Rothschilds are behind the Bank of England and Federal Reserve.

http://iamthewitness.com/Freedman-Jewish-Pawns.html this has alot of stuff, written by Benjamin Freedman, a former Jew, who Zionists call so conveniently, "self-hating Jew" who are they trying to kid?

BTW, if the zionists run the world, where the fuck is my check? A nice jewish boy, and no shkalim from the zionist elders for being a part of the Zionist Problem?!

hah, you think the Zionists care about the real Jews? Hell they could have sacrificed alot of them to get what they wanted. 'Holocaust' literally means sacred offering ie. sacrifice. Israel isn't even "Jewish," it's not a theocracy, therefore it has no foundation in anything. Many Jews have this retarded notion that Judaism is some 'culture' or 'race' outside of the religion. They think they can be "atheist Jews" as if Judaism is anything but a religion.

Our universities award anyone who makes 'impressive' publications, not things of any value that lower the working hours or reveal the conspiracies.

hahaha. Are you listening to yourself?

yes I am, and no university history/anthropology/political science/economics/ course, and so on is raising these issues and facts, they almost seem like they're avoiding it.

[/quote]Great. Live off the land! move into the wilds of Africa or something, and become a hunter-gatherer! Or go into subsistence agriculture![/quote]
or maybe farmers should start working less and enjoying themselves, that way you'll have to do real 'work'.

Wait, let me guess. you don't have the requisite mad skillz, and it's all The Man's fault! Yeah, down with The Man

part of it is the Man's fault, the woods are being less available and big industries are trying to hog it all, greed is very real and it's never ending you know. Meanwhile, we're stuck putting up with taxes funding international criminal wars, lavish government subsidies on giant corporations, dangerous and damaging fluoride in our drinking water, higher government surveillance, 1 death in a car accident every 13 minutes, the FDA doing the opposite of what it's supposed to do, loss of good jobs and global exploitation through 'free' trade acts done behind closed doors, ad nauseam. Surely such rampant widescale social control is a 'sacrifice' right? Or will it be fixed in 5 years? Doubt it.

Faust13 wrote:

vicdan wrote:today the society is more diamond-shaped, with most people being some type of middle-class.

actually, the middle-class is slowly vanishing, the gap between rich and poor is getting larger. Rich people get richer, poor people get poorer.

yeah. At the moment. And then it will narrow again. The consistent trend for the last couple of centueis has been of the underclass migrating upwards in the middle of the diamond.

um, not necessarily. Civilization began the regimented army, civilisation allowed for mass carnage warfare. Yes tribes fought too, but not to the sheer scale as States, especially today, States are still going around with too much power fucking the world over.

if you look at the percentage of population involved in conflicts, the hunter-gatherers had it the worst. During ancient and medieval times, there was simply not enough resources to pull too many people from agriculture -- but hunter-gatherers simply bashed each other's skulls in and went back to huntin' and gatherin'. Ancient and medieval Armies were small compared to the population, and largely ignored the peasants. Read a bit about the medieval military history.

Check out this paper for example, examinign a prehistoric amerindian burial ground. At least one-third of all adults had died of violence. Not even during our worst violent conflicts, e.g. USSR in WWII, was modern society anywhere near that violent (about 1/8th of Soviet population died in WWII, the heaviest casualty rates among major participants -- and that was a one-time occurrence, not endemic warfare). Here is a summary excerpt:

Chronic warfare caused a heavy loss of life (at least one-third of all adult deaths) and contributed to considerable hardship. Available evidence indicates that this conflict was a part of a broader pattern of volatile Precontact-erasocial relationships that featured intergroup cooperation coupled with antagonism.

More than every third adult died a violent death in a hunter-gatherer society. Think about it, you blithering idiot.

not true. If you have lots of time on your hands which tribes did, you can easily make books.

No, you can't. hand-written books are so slow to manufacture that books would always remain an incredible luxury, while printed books require industrial infrastructure. paper is hard to make too, you know.

Did you spend any time thinking about what you have just said?..

Just because many tribes didn't do that doesn't mean it's physically impossible.

No, it's just economically infeasible. Creating books en masse, so that a single person can easily own tend, hundreds, even thousands of books, is a feature of the industrial world. Before the printing press, owning a dozen books would make you a mega-bibliophile, and an incredibly wealthy one at that.

'won'??? They won by conquering and enslaving the surrounding populations.

Yup. last i checked, that counts as winning. We might not like it, but the world does not follow our whims.

doesn't mean that the structure of hunter-gatherers doesn't allow for that.

Sure it doesn't. A prerequisite for any such developments are two-fold: there must be people who are sufficiently free of the need to work to primarily dedicate themselves to intellectual pursuits, and there must be social infrastructure for dissemination of ideas. Hunter-gatherer society provides neither.

why not?

Go for it! Step away from the computer and go hunt some wild berries!

yes, because they're socialized into thinking that their other life is better, they are addicted to 'things' so they feel pain when they think of losing those 'things'

Wow. you are truly an idiot.

So why aren't you giving up the computer? Come on, go and start gatherin'!

victor wrote:Ask someone who is dying or who has lost a child, asshole. how nice of you to judge on others' behalf that their lives are worthless!

everyone dies it's inevitable.

But it's not your place to tell others when they should be dying, asshole.

how would it be better off???? Atleast hunter gatherers had ample TIME to enjoy their actual life, they're not living to work, they're working to live.

So am I. Except that i can expect to live to about 80, I have access to humanity's accumulated knowledge, I am fairly sure I will never lose a child to a disease, predator, or banditry, etc.

And the rest of the world doesn't work for living wage, they're certainly not 'living' if they spend 12 hours working for peanuts, not to mention many DYING simply due to working. Their work is literally KILLING them, they're not 'accidents.' Until the rest of the world has the same benefits as we do we simply don't deserve alot of our wealth, of course honesty and 'deserving' are unimportant trifles to you.

Great. Before you turn to hunting and gathering, be sure to give away everything you own and donate it to some worthy charity or another.

How old are you, kid? 18? 20? You sound like a stupid teenager. A very stupid teenager.

Central banks aren't supposed to be seperate from the government, the American Constitution certainly doesn't approve of such a thing.

What does the Fed have to do with the Constitution, moron?

Oh brother, even Milton Friedman saw the insanity of the Federal Reserve.

he thought the Fed meddled too much, not that they meddled maliciously as you assume. You are an idiot to invoke Friedman in this context.

victor wrote:Go back to macro-econ 101, idiot.

yeah I did, and it stated, "central banks cannot be private oligapolies without the control of the public, charing interest on money that isn't even backed by anything to the public in order to create never-ending debt and thus billions in personal profits."

This would be a mail-order MacroEcon 101 course, where your life experience counts for credits and you can get a PhD in a week, right?..

victor wrote:Wow, you are truly nuts, you know that?.. A clueless git. Zionists control the world, yeah! Why don't you just whip out the Protocols while you are at it?..

they control the powerful countries[/quote]Wait, let me get this straight. you are seriously asserting that zionists run the developed world!!!

hahaha!

But they sure as hell control the US, England, alot of Europe, etc... Everything in the Protocols is happening in front of our eyes, I doubt it's a forgery, there's no evidence that it's a forgery, so it could very well be real.

Actually, you fucking blithering idiots, there are metric shitloads of evidence that they are a forgery. There are passages int he protocols lifted almost verbatim from another book published three decades earlier, among other things.

Wow, I cannot believe i found a real live believer in the Protocols! hahaha!

hah, you think the Zionists care about the real Jews? Hell they could have sacrificed alot of them to get what they wanted. 'Holocaust' literally means sacred offering ie. sacrifice.

No, numbnuts, Holocaust means 'completely burnt'. The hebrew word for Holocaust, Shoah, means 'devastation'. 'holocaust' was a translation of the hebrew term into greek.

Wow, you are a complete fucking asshole, liar, anti-semite, and an all-around utter moron.

Israel isn't even "Jewish," it's not a theocracy, therefore it has no foundation in anything. Many Jews have this retarded notion that Judaism is some 'culture' or 'race' outside of the religion. They think they can be "atheist Jews" as if Judaism is anything but a religion.

you are a moron. Being a jew is also an ethnicity -- one can be a jew like one can be french, german, or japanese.

Wow. An idiot, an anti-semite, a Holocaust denier, a conspiracy theorist... shall i continue? You are slime. you are the gunk on slime's shoes. You are unfit to be regarded as a sane person.

Victor wrote:

A very stupid teenager.

Actually your name calling of Faust is rather childish, you could use a bit of humility and maturity. Is this relentless name calling and vulgarity the proper behavior for an advanced intellectual thinker?

you are seriously asserting that zionists run the developed world!!!

They don’t run the entire world, but that is not what Faust was implying, I think he is saying that they have considerable power, and this seems to be true. The Israeli lobbyists spend millions of dollars annually to influence American foreign policy, and that could be one of the major reasons for the American attitude in the middle-east at this moment.

I suspect that a combination of Israeli lobbyists and oil companies are influencing the US government at the highest levels.

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Actually your name calling of Faust is rather childish, you could use a bit of humility and maturity.

Only with those who merit it -- with those who approach intellection with honesty and integrity.

Is this relentless name calling and vulgarity the proper behavior for an advanced intellectual thinker?

Why not? You geniuses always prattle on about disdaining the arbitrary social norms -- but guess what? politeness is just such a social norm. in fact many philosophers have been shall we say, less than unfailingly polite, especially to pretentious dunces.

They don’t run the entire world,

Which part of 'developed world' do you fail to understand, advanced thinker?

but that is not what Faust was implying, I think he is saying that they have considerable power, and this seems to be true. The Israeli lobbyists spend millions of dollars annually to influence American foreign policy, and that could be one of the major reasons for the American attitude in the middle-east at this moment.

many groups have lobbies. jews had been pressuring US government before 1967 too, but met only with stone-cold disdain. USA pursues israel-friendly politics these days because it happens to be in USA's interests -- because Israel had demonstrated itself to be the regional power player. Up until Israel had conclusively proven its military superiority, USA was trying to use the arabs to the same end, that being regional influence.

It never ceases to amaze me though how people conceal their anti-semitism behind pointless blather about zionist lobby and shit. No, nobody wants to cross the zionists. Nobody wants to cross pharma, farmers, or media companies either. Somehow I fail to remember hearing complaints about the farmer lobby takeover of US government.

What's more, your idiotic attempt to defend Faust misses the rotting, stinky elephant carcass putrefying in the middle of the room. He has explicitly affirmed the blithering idiocy that is the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and implicitly denied Holocaust. Faust is a fucking stark-raving anti-semite.

Victor,

Why not? You geniuses always prattle on about disdaining the arbitrary social norms -- but guess what? politeness is just such a social norm. in fact many philosophers have been shall we say, less than unfailingly polite, especially to pretentious dunces.

Don’t get me wrong, I think throwing out the odd stunner here and there can serve a certain purpose, but when every sentence exhibits excessive vulgarity, it sort of affects the overall credibility of your argument. That's my only point...

What's more, your idiotic attempt to defend Faust misses the rotting, stinky elephant carcass putrefying in the middle of the room. He has explicitly affirmed the blithering idiocy that is the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and implicitly denied Holocaust. Faust is a fucking stark-raving anti-semite.

Yes Victor, I agree. Faust, you should reconsider your position on the halocaust, as the overwhelming empirical evidence suggests that it’s a historical fact. My father actually owns a documentary that has film footage inside the nazi concentration camps.

You gotta be careful with all these conspiracies theories floating around, it might be really pleasurable to gobble them down, but its painful with the empirical evidence forces you to vomit them back up.

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Don’t get me wrong, I think throwing out the odd stunner here and there can serve a certain purpose, but when every sentence exhibits excessive vulgarity, it sort of affects the overall credibility of your argument.

But you see, I don't care about the credibility of my argument. I am not out for the 'teacher of the year' award. I care about being right -- whether losers like Faust recognize that, or not, is entirely secondary.

They do what they gotta do, and I do what i gotta do. End of story.

Victor,

But you see, I don't care about the credibility of my argument. I am not out for the 'teacher of the year' award. I care about being right -- whether losers like Faust recognize that, or not, is entirely secondary.

They do what they gotta do, and I do what i gotta do. End of story.

So are you merely concerned with communicating as a means to be right? To be seen as the Victor so to speak (no pun intended) lol, that is rather egotistical isn’t it? Or do you wish to change their opinion to be more like your own? So that they will be more clear minded, and if you want others to think like you, which I think is the entire purpose of communication, then one should be concerned with the right way to present an argument, so the question raised is - what is the ideal demeanor of the educator?

Because you are an educator whether you want to admit it or not, and there are two approaches – The crass egotistical gladiator approach, or the humble selfless serving approach, where the teacher knows that he is also a student himself, the student is the teacher, so what environment do you believe is more auspicious to higher learning?

Ryan Rudolph wrote:So are you merely concerned with communicating as a means to be right?

Not as means to be right, no. Thinking and studying and analyzing are the means to be right.

To be seen as the Victor so to speak (no pun intended) lol,

i am also right about countless other things which never come up on discussion boards. It's not about being seen as the victor.

that is rather egotistical isn’t it?

I never claimed to be ego-free. i am not a QRS faithful.

so the question raised is - what is the ideal demeanor of the educator?

i just said in the previous post -- i am not an educator. it's not my job to teach. if you feel it's your job to learn, by all means; but I am not a teacher. I am a knower and understander.

Because you are an educator whether you want to admit it or not

As a side effect, yes; but it's not my goal, and i won't tailor my actions to that end.

The crass egotistical gladiator approach, or the humble selfless serving approach, where the teacher knows that he is also a student himself, the student is the teacher, so what environment do you believe is more auspicious to higher learning?

But i don't give a fuck about higher learning. if you feel it's your purpose to learn, please, by all means; but it's not my purpose to teach. if someone is going to learn from me, it's going to be by their effort, not by mine.

vicdan wrote:Wow, you are truly nuts, you know that?.. A clueless git. Zionists control the world, yeah! Why don't you just whip out the Protocols while you are at it?..
they control the powerful countries

vicdan wrote:Wait, let me get this straight. you are seriously asserting that zionists run the developed world!!!.

WTF?@That........You are being a troll to your own quotes,victor. O_o
Edit: Auch! "Sometimes, overly using the word "troll" may constitute trolling in itself."

Ryan Rudolph-

"So are you merely concerned with communicating as a means to be right?"

hsandman-
Bingo!

To vic: Do you know what term "straight answer" is?

vicdan wrote:

Ryan Rudolph wrote:So are you merely concerned with communicating as a means to be right?

Not as means to be right, no. Thinking and studying and analyzing are the means to be right.

hsandman-
What is the purpose of your communications then? Simple question = give a simple answer,vic. .

vicdan wrote:

Ryan Rudolph wrote:To be seen as the Victor so to speak (no pun intended) lol,

i am also right about countless other things which never come up on discussion boards. It's not about being seen as the victor.

hsandman-
I am sure you are, vic.

vicdan wrote:

Ryan Rudolph wrote:that is rather egotistical isn’t it?

I never claimed to be ego-free. i am not a QRS faithful.

hsandman-
Never claimed? Just say: "I am not". <-Simple. "I never claimed i can walk or talk or drink or dance <- that is not a straight answer,vic.

vicdan wrote:

Ryan Rudolph wrote:so the question raised is - what is the ideal demeanor of the educator?

i just said in the previous post -- i am not an educator. it's not my job to teach. if you feel it's your job to learn, by all means; but I am not a teacher. I am a knower and understand.

hsandman-
Soo, again, what is your purpose in communicating then? Are you a listener then? A voice of reason? A devils advocate? A student?
You would fail as a teacher because you fail as a student. You are neither,vic.

vicdan wrote: but it's not my purpose to teach. if someone is going to learn from me, it's going to be by their effort, not by mine.

hsandman-
Hurray, for independent research. =)