GENIUS FORUMS

You have no way of knowing 'how much' is yet to be overcome, do you?

That depends on the goal you've set for yourself.

If your knowledge is strong, then it's possible to know.

Do you think an unenlightened person can measure the length from where he is to the goal of enlightenment?

My understanding of enlightenment is that it normally occurs suddenly - resulting from a buildup of acquired knowledge.

Basically Steve, I think it's not so much that I think ideals are always wrong no matter what - but that they can often be an impediment - and I think they are always ultimately illusionary.

They can blind you.

Kind of like language. A useful map, but most people get confused between the map and the actuality.

I think you see where I'm coming from, yet you also think its unreasonable of me to absolutely denounce all ideals.

You are correct.

cosmic_prostitute, what does your pseudonym mean?

cosmic_prostitute wrote:I asked (but had edited out): So which emotions could ever benefit him?

cosmic_prostitute replied: Fear [and] Hatred/disdain/disgust

"Him" meant the "emotion-ectomied man who reasons perfectly in all situations". If these emotions were whacked back into his brain, he'd benefit in the same way that sheep-herders benefit from panic-scattered sheep.

how can you be absolutely certain that a emotionless state exists if you are still by nature emotional?

First, I observe that emotions weaken in rational mindstates and strengthen in irrational mindstates. I make up some definitions:

1/ Emotion is a compulsion, usually accompanied by physical sensations, driven by the illogical belief in the intrinsic existence of the false self (egotism).

and

2/ Rationality is the ability to identify things logically.

Then, I use a process of logical deduction. I test these truths-by-definition by asking "is purely logical thought driven by egotism?" My absolutely certain conclusion is no, because egotism is illogical, and purely logical thought is purely logical.

This indicates that pure rationality is possible, and arises when there are absolutely no traces of egotism (the illogical belief in the intrinsic existence of the false self).

Many people here are quick to throw out verbatims such as "the self is an illusion" but for being an illusion they are pretty damn protective over it...

Egotism is a very strong instinct. Very few people are masculine enough to apply constant, rational, daily mindfulness, for years and years to rob it of its strength.

However, egotism can never alter the purely logical conclusion that egolessness and emotionlessness is possible.

The man who has the ideal of perfection is incapable of acknowledging his own imperfections, he worships an image just like a christain.

An intelligent man realises that all his karma (manifestations of egotism) comes from God, and reasons that it weakens when he has more faith in his true self (God) than in his false.

Only his new godhead is "causality" or "reality" or "formlessness" or god knows what other gimmicky ideas he believes will illustrate the "ulimate reality." Reality cannot be known. There is no experiencer there to know it.

Whatever knowledge one has, such as your examples "Reality is not a gimmicky idea" or "there is no experiencer", is created by the Infinite. Knowledge can be of the nature of Reality or not. Either way, it's still God. So the truthful and thoughtful knows Reality and the untruthful and ignorant doesn't.

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kelly Jones wrote:

However, egotism can never alter the purely logical conclusion that egolessness and emotionlessness is possible.

Overall I agree with what you're saying, I have been basically playing the devil's advocate this entire time to create some interesting discussion.

Overall I believe that the emotionless state is possible, but one should be weary of the tendency to hold is as an ideal that they have already acheived when in fact they are still emotional.

This prevents them from actually observing their own imperfections.

But I agree with you, the emotionless state is a possibility.

However if it isnt an actuality in one's own psyche, it is quite hypocritical to preach it as if it has already been attained.

Kelly wrote:

cosmic_prostitute, what does your pseudonym mean?

Cosmic: of or pertaining to the cosmos; universe

Prostitute: a person who willingly uses his or her talent or ability in a base and unworthy way, usually for money.

So the nickname signifies someone who uses his infinite wisdom in corrupt manipulative ways, a hypocrite, manipulator or weasel, a cosmic hypocrite/weasel, the worst kind.

cosmic_prostitute wrote:Overall I agree with what you're saying, I have been basically playing the devil's advocate this entire time to create some interesting discussion.

So you're not really a cosmic prostitute after all. What's your real name?

You said the nickname signifies "someone who uses his infinite wisdom in corrupt manipulative ways". If this refers to you, what's your reasoning for doing so?

Overall I believe that the emotionless state is possible, but one should be weary of the tendency to hold is as an ideal that they have already acheived when in fact they are still emotional.

This prevents them from actually observing their own imperfections.

But I agree with you, the emotionless state is a possibility.

However if it isnt an actuality in one's own psyche, it is quite hypocritical to preach it as if it has already been attained.

This is true. But one can't know for sure that someone who admits to experiencing emotions is telling the truth, similarly someone who admits to experiencing no emotions.

One might be singing a song, like "I'm a man of constant sorrow". Even if his voice is quite emotional, or his gestures, you cannot know for sure. He may or may not be acting.

But one can have certainty about one's own psychological states. I'd say it's more important to focus on those, since if one experiences any degree of emotion, it's a sign of delusion that needs thinking through.


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Kelly Jones wrote:
But one can have certainty about one's own psychological states. I'd say it's more important to focus on those, since if one experiences any degree of emotion, it's a sign of delusion that needs thinking through.


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Or there could be a real threat to you in your environs. There is a point to emotions, to keep you alive. If life holds no value, then of course, emotions are meaningless.

Kelly Jones wrote:

What's your real name?

Ryan

Kelly Jones wrote:

You said the nickname signifies "someone who uses his infinite wisdom in corrupt manipulative ways". If this refers to you, what's your reasoning for doing so?

Sometimes I can be intensely serious, but other times I feel like playing. When one is playing like a child this is the inferior behavior and eventually it will be negated.

It will be negated when I am sufficiently discontent with what I am, but this hasnt happened yet.

millipodium wrote:there could be a real threat to you in your environs. There is a point to emotions, to keep you alive. If life holds no value, then of course, emotions are meaningless.

Yes, I explained why emotions don't benefit the purely logical thinker at all, above. But the dreary and bleak mindstate that voices "Life is meaningless, vanity of vanities" is not free of emotion, nor rational.

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Then Ryan wrote:It will be negated when I am sufficiently discontent with what I am, but this hasnt happened yet.

I too like to take the piss. It's so easy to mock virtually all human behaviour, especially the pretentious type that prances around in some role. But I eventually find it boring and a bit chaotic. It's kind of coarse.

There's a feeling that coming back to my quiet clean mindstates is a greater freedom. That could just be me, though.

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Kelly Jones wrote:

millipodium wrote:there could be a real threat to you in your environs. There is a point to emotions, to keep you alive. If life holds no value, then of course, emotions are meaningless.

Yes, I explained why emotions don't benefit the purely logical thinker at all, above. But the dreary and bleak mindstate that voices "Life is meaningless, vanity of vanities" is not free of emotion, nor rational.

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Is fatalism and nihilism an emotion? Yes. I think it's depression.