GENIUS FORUMS

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Kelly Jones wrote:Your answer might also help types like Rhett in his earlier reincarnation, whose naivete about the feminine mind made it very difficult for the protege's attachments to be deconstructed.
Kelly

Developing a good understanding of femininity has an interesting effect of helping one imagine and thus work towards egolessness. Not to say that women are egoless, but they are nearly so, being so barely conscious as they are.

The more born into this world a person is, the more distant they are from the unborn, but the more consciously and rapidly they can change the situation.

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Rhett Hamilton wrote:.

Kelly Jones wrote:Your answer might also help types like Rhett in his earlier reincarnation, whose naivete about the feminine mind made it very difficult for the protege's attachments to be deconstructed.
Kelly

Developing a good understanding of femininity has an interesting effect of helping one imagine and thus work towards egolessness. Not to say that women are egoless, but they are nearly so, being so barely conscious as they are.

The more born into this world a person is, the more distant they are from the unborn, but the more consciously and rapidly they can change the situation.

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Yes.

My earlier questions to David were driven by despair and the instinctive desire to protect myself.

The weak self needs to be strong enough to cope with reason, but not so strong as to leave no room to change into the reason-dependent self - and so on.

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At the same time, we must always be aware of the solidity of the guidepost we are using to reach the horizon. To reach it before dark, we must also know and admit our strengths and weaknesses. In the end, it has nothing to do with your genitalia.

I looked at a parenting video to see how tantrums are dealt with. The tantrum-thrower is usually either fatigued, stirred-up, frustrated, copying, enforcing its ego, getting attention, or overwhelmed by stimuli. These are all emotional reactions aimed at empowering the self, by attacking others.

Weakness is hatred of the Truth, so strength is growing out of emotional selfishness. Is it possible to build a rational self by using emotion rationally, or not?

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A good way of coming to know about your own strengths and weaknesses is by noticing them in other people. Sometimes we can't see something clearly unless we look at it from a distance.

Maybe that when a trait appears with a bundle of other traits (personality), it can be easier to distinguish it when many traits in that bundle are different to one's own array.

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On the gradual process of moving from emotional thinking to pure reason:

Rational selfishness is a useful strength, when it moves one away from a crazy hatred of coherent consciousness (emotionalism). It's still ego-empowering, but the self is built using more reason-oriented emotions.

For example: curiosity, humour, contentedness within imagination, intuition, inventiveness, wonder, speculation, dreaming, and a being-in-the-moment type of mood.

It reminds me of "Internal Family Therapy", used for severe trauma victims, whose little kids are so terrified, they won't trust the core organisatory self. These children need to be reassured, so trust is built, and the conflicting mental messages can fade away.

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I've made some progress moving to pure reason, and I think it's just a matter of developing good habits, which can take a few tries. It took me about 5 or 6 good tries to quit smoking, and I'm going on 5 months of nonsmoking right now and I'm pretty sure I'll pull through on this try.

There's always a critical moment of temptation where you begin to plunge into emotionalism and if you can just get passed that one moment then you're good for awhile. That's how I look at it on a moment-to-moment basis, or whatever the word is.

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Rhett Hamilton wrote:Developing a good understanding of femininity has an interesting effect of helping one imagine and thus work towards egolessness. Not to say that women are egoless, but they are nearly so, being so barely conscious as they are.

To further this, the understanding of minimally conscious states can be used and applied to the ego, pushing it to the extreme, to its obliteration.

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I'm not sure what you mean, Rhett. Could you give an example?

It took me about 5 or 6 good tries to quit smoking, and I'm going on 5 months of nonsmoking right now and I'm pretty sure I'll pull through on this try.

Yes, I like the analogy of getting off a drug. My drug is the ego manifesting as a number of things related to human society (it's kind of complicated), so "I've" invented "Internal Society Therapy".

Forming good habits is, for me, a matter of creating a new legal system. There are unruly criminals (emotional urges, that have the power of gangsters), cops who have warrants for their arrest, and a judge who takes order once the peace isn't so disturbed.

At present, the cops are getting a bit more headway.

It seems that the tantrum gangs have formed because excited mob-rule empowers the ego a lot, and it is enjoyable. The initial tantrums were just over-worked stress signals about some difficulty. Instead of putting in the cops to acknowledge the stress, the mobs took over.

The triggers for stress are basically being sterilised (lifeless blood-line), and being a social pariah (socially unsupportable). My subconscious is basically sending lots of stress signals. The tantrum-gangsterism has been hard to tackle because of learned distrust in the justice system (violent parenting).

Anyway, the upshot of it is that a good habit to form is Internal Society Therapy, so that instead of imagining the sane, rational self is up against an entire galaxy of opposing gangsters "out there" (on the internet, society "beyond the mind"), I'm "back" in my own mind thinking. In other words, I start to have faith in the safety of my "inner" life: my mind. The more I trust my thinking, the more the cops and legal system will be able to take control.

This will lead to more coherent consciousness, i.e. sanity.

Dave Hodges referred to this as the difference between essentialism and existentialism.


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kelly:

so "I've" invented "Internal Society Therapy".

InternalCops=Rescuers
Internal Gangsters=Persecutors

haha

It's Hilarious

The way the Mind organises this dramatic structure.

frank

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Rhett wrote:Developing a good understanding of femininity has an interesting effect of helping one imagine and thus work towards egolessness. Not to say that women are egoless, but they are nearly so, being so barely conscious as they are.

To further this, the understanding of minimally conscious states can be used and applied to the ego, pushing it to the extreme, to its obliteration.

Matt Gregory wrote:I'm not sure what you mean, Rhett. Could you give an example?

In the deluded mind the ego exists like any other artefact. Where there is the aim of enlightenment, there is the aim to eradicate the ego. How is this done? This is done in a variety of ways, attacking and resolving from many angles.

One such angle is to apply the paradigm of lesser and greater states of consciousness, and in this case, to explore lesser states to see what they may be like. Spending time seeing what it may be like for there to be a lesser ego, naturally gives opportunity for the ego to diminish, a kind of exposure and absorption technique. Where there is the genuine desire for it to diminish, of course.

An example would be to give a woman a flower. In that moment she will likely become almost completely absorbed in the flower as if it is herself, and its beauty her own. For her it is not so much a gift or reflection of herself, but the arisal of an object giving full power to femininity.

Try and imagine what this may be like.

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Frank,

If you live in a society of people having tantrums, you might value creating a system to stop this behaviour. It would be a legal system, with rules. The tantrum-throwers would find it dramatic. But you might not. It would just be an expression of what you value, being opposed to tantrums.

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Rhett,

Exploring lower consciousness is good advice. That's what the "judge" or rational thinker is created for. It needs to have a good memory, though.

The questions that come up are:

Why does this lower consciousness want to be all-powerful?
Why does it need to keep reinforcing itself, no matter what appears?
Does satisfying it in anyway help it to be diminished?
If it gets too irritable, from feeling starved of its drugs, then it bullies the rest of the mind into giving in. How much can one feed the ego, until it fades a bit?

Maybe the specific answers are personal. But all of them need a good memory of what high consciousness is like and its worthwhileness.




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This is psychotherapy, maybe it's tantra.

The rational self welcomes the lower consciousness in, so to speak. The guest "chats".

Then the rational self has a chat. It starts by identifying itself as God (the Infinite), and what that means.

Like the ending of an epileptic fit, the tension of selfishness starts to dissolve. The ego is welcomed to explore life without the seizure, and it becomes conscious of why it is being asked to die away.

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Hakuin's visualisation of the duck-egg comes to mind. It's a creamy, golden duck-egg that is balanced on top of one's noggin, and slowly melting. It flows down through the whole body, saturating its boundaries, turning everything to a warm golden yolky substance. It's an analogy of becoming conscious of the Ultimate.


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Consciously inviting lower states of consciousness is a much better move than letting them invade. This way, one becomes the landlord, and they are temporary guests - even if they stay for a while.

But why does the feminine mind need to be kept company?


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Kelly:

Frank,

If you live in a society of people having tantrums, you might value creating a system to stop this behaviour. It would be a legal system, with rules. The tantrum-throwers would find it dramatic. But you might not. It would just be an expression of what you value, being opposed to tantrums.

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I'm just saying can you see how the Mind constructs 'Reality' with this shape to it....

Rescuer sees 'bad' (persecutor)....sees victim of persecutor and tries to fix it...by persecuting the original perceived persecutor..

It's not about creating a system to stop this happening but Realising it.

frank

Yes, I agree, Frank: if there is a rescuer, then there is a rescued.

If one doesn't value egotism, then one opposes it. This is rescuing consciousness of Ultimate Reality.

When the ego (disbelievers of Ultimate Reality) is interfering with one's values, then it needs some rules to get used to. One is simply extending a helping hand to the disbelievers of the mind, so they don't keep up their rebellion.

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I'm taking a long, long break from the forum, as I'm not mentally healthy enough for philosophy at this stage of my life. I've asked Kevin to unsubscribe me.


Kelly Jones

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Kelly Jones wrote:.

I'm taking a long, long break from the forum, as I'm not mentally healthy enough for philosophy at this stage of my life. I've asked Kevin to unsubscribe me.


Kelly Jones

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Ok, Kelly. I think you might be overreacting, but you know yourself better than anyone else.

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Rhett wrote:Developing a good understanding of femininity has an interesting effect of helping one imagine and thus work towards egolessness. Not to say that women are egoless, but they are nearly so, being so barely conscious as they are.

To further this, the understanding of minimally conscious states can be used and applied to the ego, pushing it to the extreme, to its obliteration.

Matt Gregory wrote:I'm not sure what you mean, Rhett. Could you give an example?

Rhett wrote:In the deluded mind the ego exists like any other artefact. Where there is the aim of enlightenment, there is the aim to eradicate the ego. How is this done? This is done in a variety of ways, attacking and resolving from many angles.

One such angle is to apply the paradigm of lesser and greater states of consciousness, and in this case, to explore lesser states to see what they may be like. Spending time seeing what it may be like for there to be a lesser ego naturally gives opportunity for the ego to diminish, a kind of exposure and absorption technique. Where there is the genuine desire for it to diminish, of course.

An example would be to give a woman a flower. In that moment she will likely become almost completely absorbed in the flower as if it is herself, and its beauty her own. For her it is not so much a gift or reflection of herself, but the arisal of an object giving full power to femininity.

Try and imagine what this may be like.

Perhaps i should point out that i'm being a bit experimental. This is a high teaching, requiring good discrimination and solid fleshing out.

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Kelly wrote:Exploring lower consciousness is good advice. That's what the "judge" or rational thinker is created for. It needs to have a good memory, though.

The creation of a "judge" or "rational thinker" isn't required for explorations of lesser states of consciousness. In fact, the act of exploring lesser states is very much focused upon eradicating any encumbent elements of mind that have been created.

I'd just like to plug in a reminder at this point that i'm suggesting this be done in as fuller consciousness as possible, not by taking drugs or whatnot.

Kelly wrote:The questions that come up are:

Why does this lower consciousness want to be all-powerful?

Because there is the opinion of existence and therefore the fear of being hurt.

Kelly wrote:Why does it need to keep reinforcing itself, no matter what appears?

It doesn't need to, but it does tend to, as evolution has mostly shaped nature to occur that way.

Kelly wrote:Does satisfying it in anyway help it to be diminished?

Not once you've come to understand it.

Kelly wrote:If it gets too irritable, from feeling starved of its drugs, then it bullies the rest of the mind into giving in. How much can one feed the ego, until it fades a bit?

It's a big fight. Place prime focus on each problem as it arises and the mind will become wiser and wiser at dealing with them.

Kelly wrote:Maybe the specific answers are personal. But all of them need a good memory of what high consciousness is like and its worthwhileness.

Every moment of compromised consciousness is a good reminder of the worth in its resolution.


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Rhett wrote:
Developing a good understanding of femininity has an interesting effect of helping one imagine and thus work towards egolessness. Not to say that women are egoless, but they are nearly so, being so barely conscious as they are.

To further this, the understanding of minimally conscious states can be used and applied to the ego, pushing it to the extreme, to its obliteration.


Matt Gregory wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean, Rhett. Could you give an example?


Rhett wrote:
In the deluded mind the ego exists like any other artefact. Where there is the aim of enlightenment, there is the aim to eradicate the ego. How is this done? This is done in a variety of ways, attacking and resolving from many angles.

One such angle is to apply the paradigm of lesser and greater states of consciousness, and in this case, to explore lesser states to see what they may be like. Spending time seeing what it may be like for there to be a lesser ego naturally gives opportunity for the ego to diminish, a kind of exposure and absorption technique. Where there is the genuine desire for it to diminish, of course.

An example would be to give a woman a flower. In that moment she will likely become almost completely absorbed in the flower as if it is herself, and its beauty her own. For her it is not so much a gift or reflection of herself, but the arisal of an object giving full power to femininity.

Try and imagine what this may be like.


Perhaps i should point out that i'm being a bit experimental. This is a high teaching, requiring good discrimination and solid fleshing out.

I don't know, Rhett, it doesn't do much for me. I decided all the abstract, metaphysical stuff is useless and gave up on it. The only metaphysical fact I find useful nowadays is that everything is finite/caused.

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Matt wrote:I don't know, Rhett, it doesn't do much for me. I decided all the abstract, metaphysical stuff is useless and gave up on it. The only metaphysical fact I find useful nowadays is that everything is finite/caused.

Seeing the true nature of the ego as the abstraction it is, is very valuable, in my opinion.

Relating to a womanly experience can give insight into the peep-sized abstraction that they experience, with the contrast being valuable for one's own development.

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Yeah, I think defining femininity as unconsciousness is a good teaching. I wonder about describing the ego as an artifact in the mind, though.

I personally see the ego as what a person really is. As they develop, they convert parts of it into Truth, like a child growing into an adult...only the ego is composed of many, many children and each child represents one delusion about the nature of Reality.

I guess you could consider the ego an artifact if you want to put it at a distance and not identify with it, but I'm not sure how productive that is in the long run.

Leyla wrote:

So, man’s motivation and the very reason for his possessing an inner life -- comprising his very life -- is inextricably tied to the existence of Woman. He formulates such an inner life from first having been cast out of Her (mother) and maintains one for the very same reason.

You seem to miss the point. That inner driving force man possesses: his need to push himself to conquer the highest mountain, or to become CEO, or to be the best at what ever he does, is exactly what makes him eligible for the philosophic life. The fact that most men squander this potential on building bigger and better worlds for women to play in - is beside the point. Those men still possess this potential, and therefore they could, at any time, drop extracting their comfort and joy from women and actually start living up to their potential and become lovers of truth.

The difference between you and I, Sue, is that it’s the last thing I would call independent. In fact, its quite insidiously parasitic. And it does not surprise me in the least that -- on getting even an inkling of it -- men feel unconsciously compelled to throw themselves at a woman’s feet in some twisted plea for forgiveness.

Naturally, such men have no choice but to hate her.

Men hate women!? How could that be, when nearly everyman on the planet has devoted his entire life to her?

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Leyla, if you consider masculinity obsolete to the advancement of philosophy, what do you think should replace it?

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Sue

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Matt Gregory wrote:Yeah, I think defining femininity as unconsciousness is a good teaching. I wonder about describing the ego as an artifact in the mind, though.

I personally see the ego as what a person really is. As they develop, they convert parts of it into Truth, like a child growing into an adult...only the ego is composed of many, many children and each child represents one delusion about the nature of Reality.

I guess you could consider the ego an artifact if you want to put it at a distance and not identify with it, but I'm not sure how productive that is in the long run.

Let's take this slowly and see how we go.

Talking about the mind, which contains everything (by my definition), unless you conceive of the ego as everything, it is necessarily a thing, which is finite. In which case the ego is necessarily an artifact of the mind.

Lets look at an example. Say, for instance, there is an experience of a steep rocky mountain, the thought that it will be tough to climb, and a simultaneous feeling of depression. I would not consider the mountain or the description of it being tough to climb as the ego. The ego would reside as the thought of an inherently existent self climbing a tough mountain and being depressed about it. So we see the ego is only an artifact of the mind.

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