"God bless"

Matt Gregory · Post by **Matt Gregory** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:30 pm

How do you guys reply to this? I'm inclined to say "God bless" right back (although I never actually do), because although I disagree with the metaphysics of it, I don't think the sentiment is bad, is it?

Shahrazad · Post by **Shahrazad** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:33 pm

I would just smile and say thank you.

Carl G · Post by **Carl G** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:16 pm

People at my work say "Bless you" every time someone sneezes, which is often during cold, flu, alllergy seasons. This of course is short for God bless you. The proper response is "Thank you." I do find it oddly superstitious and Christian at the same time. Why must someone be blessed when they are sneezing, and not coughing, for instance? I think it's supposed to be an antidote to the possibility of someone sneezing their spirit out, or something. Anyone know the origin of this strange custom?

Leyla Shen · Post by **Leyla Shen** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:08 pm

Oh, I know this piece of trivia. It was a Roman pope circa 580 who started the whole sneezing-connection thing off as a consequence of the number of deaths from, and associated sneezing with, the plague.

Apparently, not enough people with the cough symptom have died.

Sapius · Post by **Sapius** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:51 am

Carl G wrote:People at my work say "Bless you" every time someone sneezes, which is often during cold, flu, alllergy seasons. This of course is short for God bless you. The proper response is "Thank you." I do find it oddly superstitious and Christian at the same time. Why must someone be blessed when they are sneezing, and not coughing, for instance? I think it's supposed to be an antidote to the possibility of someone sneezing their spirit out, or something. Anyone know the origin of this strange custom?

Yes, I do, in a manner of speaking, and this should be interesting for those that are (or were) muslims.

Leyla, or Shahrazad, please correct me if I am wrongâ€¦ when a Muslim sneezes, he says â€˜alhumdu-lillahâ€™ = thank god! And the other says (this might not be correctly worded) â€˜Wa-rahmakum-allahâ€ = "Mercy of God on you', Or "God has had mercy on you'.

Carl, you are partly correct is saying that â€˜God blessâ€™ is short for â€˜God bless you, but actually it should be â€˜God has blessed youâ€™. Allow me to explainâ€¦

I have traveled the middle-east for years now, and the curious guy that I am, I had to ask why do people say â€˜alhamdulilahâ€™ when they sneeze, and what it meant. I was told it meant â€˜thank god!â€™ but no muslim could ever tell me exactly why they say it. It had to be a German Christian who was interested in Islam, and was a surgeon by profession, who told me why.

This was about 12 years ago when I visited Munich with a Moroccan friend of mine. The doctor was a friend of his. During some Islamic conversation that I was interestingly listening to, the doctor came up with the subject of sneezing and why it was appropriate for the sneezer to say â€˜thank godâ€™ after a sneeze.

It seems that during a sneeze the heart misses a beat, the doctor actually also saw this during one of his open-heart surgeries, and although it is extremely rear, he said that a heart could stop there. So in essence, one thanks god for a new life that has been granted, for he was dead for a heart beat. And the other replies, that indeed, â€˜god has blessed youâ€™.

Now I donâ€™t really know among which people did this tradition start, but there must have been some scientific knowledge at hand then, and that knowledge or the reason for saying so must have been lost in time, to be rediscovered by a German guy. May be that was one of the things that he found intriguing about Islam.

I donâ€™t think many Muslims are even aware of why they say it, nor Christians or Jews, in whatever distorted form that they say it today. But Muslims seem to be right on the spot, although unaware.

Leyla,

Apparently, not enough people with the cough symptom have died.

Not a cough, but apparently, a sneeze could kill.

Unidian · Post by **Unidian** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:04 am

I politely acknowledge it. Focusing on such trivialities is a waste of energy.

Dan Rowden · Post by **Dan Rowden** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:23 am

This is my first viewing of this thread. Now that I know what it's about I'm going to drop it to the nether regions. As to the question, I have no idea what I actually do, but from now on I think I'll respond with: "It's ok, I don't have the plague."

Unidian · Post by **Unidian** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:11 am

I think I will frantically try to catch my soul as it flies out, and start screaming "Damn, damn, my soul got away!"

Matt Gregory · Post by **Matt Gregory** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:32 am

I just find the whole Christian attitude towards God silly, and it manifests in all their little God activities. I mean, what does "God bless" really mean?

Does it mean "God, I ask you to bless this person"? I think it's pretty presumptuous to want to morally override God and direct him in your own way, even if it is for another person (I mean, let's face it: if all it takes is another person to get you off the hook for being selfish, then God must be pretty dumb. It's not hard to do things for others and ask them for something in return. You'll be a lot farther ahead doing it that way anyway, because now you'll have a good reputation as well.) Even thinking that God is necessarily on your side is pretty presumptuous as well. Shouldn't we be trying to act according to God's will instead of trying to mold God's will into our own ideas of what it should be? I think it's especially comical when you look at priests who bless everybody by throwing water and them and stuff, like they're summoning God's power from above. A priest is like a sorcerer summoning lightning from the sky with his staff and shooting it out of his hand or something.

Or does "God bless" mean "May God bless you"? This has the same problem of wanting to direct God in the form of hope, so it's not quite as arrogant, but still pretty anti-God in that you're hoping God will behave in a certain way and if he doesn't you'll presumably be disappointed with him, because if that wasn't the case then it was a totally insincere, ingratiating comment.

A blessing stems from arrogance and insincerity. No different from the causes of war, really. So, I think it does pose a bit of a dilemma.

Carl G · Post by **Carl G** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:45 am

I was curious after hearing the several explanations that popped up, and googled the phrase. First stop, wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bless_you

Here and at Snopes, the heart stopping thing is disputed. No, it doesn't skip a beat when we sneeze they say.

Then there's the thought I had, about the soul or spirit being thrown from the body.

http://www.snopes.com/language/phrases/blessyou.asp

Also at snopes was also the Plague explanation.

And finally, the simple blessing explanation, though no ideas why exactly the sneeze is lucky, or deserving of benediction. Basically in any case it's seems it's an excuse to wish someone well. I've nothing against that but prefer to do it when he or she is not expelling mucous.

I have a co-worker who sneezes extremely loudly and without warning, and I especially refuse to bless him for scaring the bejeezus out of me. I actually think he should consider blessing me each time he raises the roof that way

Shahrazad · Post by **Shahrazad** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:48 am

I have a co-worker who sneezes extremely loudly and without warning, and I especially refuse to bless him for scaring the bejeezus out of me.

I do the same and people hate me for it, but I can't help it.

Unidian · Post by **Unidian** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:50 am

Yeah. Religious people are always saying "God has a plan" and simultaneously asking him to change that plan in their favor, as if God's plan is fine for everybody else but not quite right for them. They know better than God when it comes to that promotion they want or whatever it is. It's an example of the hypocrisy and egregious illogic inherent to this sort of thinking.

I would have thought that taking the idea of God's omniscience and omnipotence seriously would obviously rule out most forms of prayer, but I guess that's just because I understand this whole "logic" thing a little bit. Most people don't, and they aren't interested in learning. Oh well, that's life.

Jamesh · Post by **Jamesh** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:15 pm

Never thought of those points before. Nice.

DHodges · Post by **DHodges** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:31 pm

Unidian wrote:Yeah. Religious people are always saying "God has a plan" and simultaneously asking him to change that plan in their favor, as if God's plan is fine for everybody else but not quite right for them.

That is the essence of religion, and the essence of prayer. "Please, God, change the laws of nature to work in my favor!"

Carl G · Post by **Carl G** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:35 pm

DHodges wrote:

That is the essence of religion, and the essence of prayer. "Please, God, change the laws of nature to work in my favor!"

I don't have time right now to respond more fully, but this is completely false.

Katy · Post by **Katy** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:37 pm

Snopes seems to say nobody knows for sure.

MadScience says your heart does not skip a beat

Sapius · Post by **Sapius** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:58 pm

Katy, from the second link that you povided.

And yet, a sneeze is definitely a complex cardiovascular event. As you
"ah" and "choo", you significantly change the pressure inside your chest,
which in turn affects blood flow and thus the beating of the heart. Still
further, I assume that a sneeze involves a significant activation of
certain pathways of the "autonomic" (roughly means automatic) nervous
system. These also innervate the heart and do affect the frequency and
other aspects of the heartbeat.

It is more than enough for me to know that it does affect the otherwise rhythmic frequency of a heartbeat. 1 heartbeat or .002.

What I donâ€™t understand is how this thread has developed; what exactly has â€œGodâ€ or religion got to do with a traditional saying that seems to have been base on ancient scientific understandings? Which is all that I am interested in.

Well, I guess it all depends on how one looks at it.

Thanks for the link though, Katy.

Katy · Post by **Katy** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:49 pm

I just don't think it is based on scientific understanding. Simply because there wasn't scientific understanding. They couldn't measure .002 heartbeats back then. And I assume it got to religion because the word "God" is in there.

DHodges · Post by **DHodges** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:30 pm

Carl G wrote:I don't have time right now to respond more fully, but this is completely false.

Well, that was certainly a convincing argument. You win.

Anyway, when someone sneezes, or says "Bless you" when I sneeze, I usually just ignore it. Sneezes don't really seem to warrant any commentary.

Sapius · Post by **Sapius** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:00 am

Katy wrote:I just don't think it is based on scientific understanding. Simply because there wasn't scientific understanding.

Well, I beg to differ. Do you know that many kinds of operations were performed in ancient Greece and China? Do you know that plastic surgery was performed in ancient India?

Katy · Post by **Katy** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:58 am

Sapius wrote: Well, I beg to differ. Do you know that many kinds of operations were performed in ancient Greece and China? Do you know that plastic surgery was performed in ancient India?

Plastic surgery hardly requires the ability to measure .02 seconds. Nor do most operations. Think about the measuring accuracy you're talking about here. It's certainly not perceptible to the human eye. Nor to someone taking a pulse.

Sapius · Post by **Sapius** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:20 am

Katy wrote:
Sapius wrote: Well, I beg to differ. Do you know that many kinds of operations were performed in ancient Greece and China? Do you know that plastic surgery was performed in ancient India?
Plastic surgery hardly requires the ability to measure .02 seconds. Nor do most operations. Think about the measuring accuracy you're talking about here. It's certainly not perceptible to the human eye. Nor to someone taking a pulse.

Please donâ€™t get stuck up with .02. That was just an expression. The point is, that the â€œchooâ€ part is so intense that it could shake up all internal organs. I donâ€™t remember exactly, but the speed of the wind that exists the lungs has been measured to be quite fast for the short period that it takes to exit.

A village doctor can read a pulse much more accurately than a modern physician, so I wouldnâ€™t be surprised if it couldnâ€™t be done in ancient times, and some irregularity in the rhythm could be felt when the patient was sneezing away in glory.

GENIUS FORUMS

"God bless"

"God bless"

What it's really about

Ah - choo!