Romance(the new religion)

Ankit Gupta · Post by **Ankit Gupta** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:34 am

It appears to me that romance has taken the place of religion and other metaphysical ideologies such as communism in the west at least. Like religion romance talks of perpetual bliss(nirvana), which is gained when the "one" is found. Like religion it asks its followers to make itself worthy, and promises each that there is that someone special out there for everybody. Further, failure to achieve this nirvana is not the fault of the model but one must try harder and recognize past achievements(of the one) as delusions.

Further the new religion keeps the population satisfied, by assuring everybody a piece of heaven. It also helps the powerful(such as big corporations) manipulate the masses. All forms of discontent are channeled into one source. In fact this religion is also backed by science, It seems that finally humanity has a religion and metaphysical system which cannot be destroyed(or so it seems).

Ryan Rudolph · Post by **Ryan Rudolph** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:22 am

Ankit Gupta wrote:

It also helps the powerful(such as big corporations) manipulate the masses.

But itâ€™s not like the powerful are even aware that they are manipulating the masses. The masters are just as enslaved as the slaves are.

Most CEOâ€™s/owners of large corps have probably been divorced many times and most of them pull longer hours than the masses in which the blindly manipulate.

Both are victims of ignorance. Both are blindly seeking more power in a stupid way.

The key is to learn how to seek power/security/comfort in an intelligent way.

Humans are confused by romance because of the intensity of the biological urge to reproduce and the fact that the opposite gender appears desirable at least at a superficial level.

And also men who are ignorant yearn for completeness and without wisdom a man is seduced by the woman because she appears to be able to stay happy and positive on a superficial level. The ignorant man cannot understand this so he marries her as a means to try to complete himself however as the years go by he grows incredibly negative, grumpy and hateful of life due to the extent to which the women/child controls him.

Oh and then there is the fear of not pleasing mom and dad who yearn for the offspring to live a conventional life so they will not feel the blunt of gossip from the disapproving community.

Romance is a complicated issue. Humans fear not conforming to the established norms because they fear being perceived as inferior/outcasts and they fear displeasing their parents.

They do not want to cause that sort of suffering on the family/on themselves.

It is quite intense, personally I have told my parents that I will probably marry with no intention of marrying. Its weak, but it will buy me some time.

Most people cannot see the superficiality of the opposite gender because they cannot see the superficiality within themselves.

It would be an oversimplification to say that an â€œidea of romanceâ€ controls the masses. It would be safer to say a collection of psychological tendencies that humanity is not aware of controls their behavior.

DHodges · Post by **DHodges** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:32 am

Romance is not new. And it certainly won't replace religion. Romance gets along fine with religion.

Ankit Gupta · Post by **Ankit Gupta** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:42 am

DHodges wrote:Romance is not new. And it certainly won't replace religion. Romance gets along fine with religion.

Not new, but in its new incarnation as the answer to everything and the ultimate purpose of life, it certainly imitates religion. For example the conception of "true love" which makes one complete and fulfilled. It may be noted that religion is on the decline, and its ideas seen as ridiculous, while the opposite is true of the other.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:44 am

There's definitiely something to this. It's something society needs to get past for its own good...for Nirvana.

Ankit Gupta · Post by **Ankit Gupta** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:52 pm

cosmic_prostitute wrote: But itâ€™s not like the powerful are even aware that they are manipulating the masses. The masters are just as enslaved as the slaves are.

I am not sure about this one, for example the advertising industry does put in a lot of psychological research to seduce the masses, they should be aware at least on a superficial level of the strings they are pulling. Also the movie industry, which puts wrong ideas in the heads of the young, while the movie makers are themselves older and maybe more skeptical of the whole romantic agenda. Pushing it nevertheless to just make profits

Ryan Rudolph · Post by **Ryan Rudolph** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:21 pm

Ankit Gupta wrote:

for example the advertising industry does put in a lot of psychological research to seduce the masses, they should be aware at least on a superficial level of the strings they are pulling. Also the movie industry, which puts wrong ideas in the heads of the young, while the movie makers are themselves older and maybe more skeptical of the whole romantic agenda. Pushing it nevertheless to just make profits

Yes there are a few exceptions of some groups who have a specialized knowledge and are acting on that knowledge. However their awareness is still incredibly shallow/superficial. The dont fully comprehend the full ramifications of their actions and if they have a partial insight into their immoral behavior then they have all sorts of justifications to cover up the truth of their vocation.

My major point is that the ones who manipulate are not any freerer than those who are manipulated. Both groups are neurotic, deluded, confused and have no idea what is actually happening around them.

The powerful may have more leisure, but they are just as bored and scared of not being occupied as the powerless.

Ankit Gupta wrote:

For example the conception of "true love" which makes one complete and fulfilled.

Its funny that people havent caught on to the hypocrisy of shows such as Dr Phil. What is hilarious is that on the one hand Dr Phil will write books on romantic love and how to find your soulmate, but on the other hand he constantly has people on his show that have all sorts of psychological compulsions/disorders.

It's funny because my father will watch the show and then exclaim dumbfoundedly afterwards: "god people are screwed up in the head up these days!" and he spews this while nessled up to my mother's bossom like a damn infant...

sky · Post by **sky** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:46 am

tomantic love is based on obstacles

romeo and juliet is all about the obstacles the greater the obstacle(s) the greater the yearning

once the obstacles are overcome what is left

it could be anything

disappointment with its unpleasant consequences

or a partner in pursuit of whatever you might actually have in common

which might be worth little or worth much

the commonality i mean

in Durant's THE HISTORY OF CIVILIZATION first book OUR ORIENTAL HERITAGE i found 'the beginnings of marriage'

it said that originally marriage was brought about in one of three ways

1. the bride price cash(or its equivalent)up front or on delivery

2. ritualistic kidnapping in full public view

3. mutual affection

mutual affection was held in low regard as it seemed that the man was getting too much for too little

i was still a teen when i read this so i had a good laugh at myself for my prince charming fancies and got over it

in the recent studies of the 'science of beauty' it has been discovered that those aspects we perceive of as attractive are the result of good genes healthy genes

in all creatures is a deep drive for genetic survival so often a pair is attracted for purely biological reasons to produce an embodiment of the best possible genetic code available

there is a period which last about three years during which it seems like a really wonderful idea to have a baby

but as often seen in the subsequent divorce there is nothing of the personal in this

you are not 'in love' with anyone you just feel/think so

nature has conspired so that you feel/think this is 'it'

Voltaire 'love is nature's cruelest joke'

Leyla Shen · Post by **Leyla Shen** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:22 am

sky wrote:

in the recent studies of the 'science of beauty' it has been discovered that those aspects we perceive of as attractive are the result of good genes healthy genes

in all creatures is a deep drive for genetic survival so often a pair is attracted for purely biological reasons to produce an embodiment of the best possible genetic code available

Like typing in pink?

.

millipodium · Post by **millipodium** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:26 am

Communism is not metaphysical.

sky · Post by **sky** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:49 am

Leyla Shen wrote:sky wrote:

in the recent studies of the 'science of beauty' it has been discovered that those aspects we perceive of as attractive are the result of good genes healthy genes

in all creatures is a deep drive for genetic survival so often a pair is attracted for purely biological reasons to produce an embodiment of the best possible genetic code available
Like typing in pink?

actually it was violet

romantic love as we know it i believe grew from the arthurian legends and is actually rooted in the chaste devotion to the virgin known as mary

and yes it does seem to be the focus of attention of the masses

it seems that most people would not know what to do with themselves without that focus

and i suppose the temples of love would be cartier and tiffany or harry winston and van cleef and arpels

plato had a theory that we are one half of a whole seeking our other half

but it did not work very well for the brilliant abelard and heloise

nor for tristan and isolde

even confucius gets a bit dreamy

Life leads the thoughtful man on a path of many windings.
Now the course is checked, now it runs straight again.
Here winged thoughts may pour freely forth in words,
There the heavy burden of knowledge must be shut away in silence.

But when two people are at one in the inmost hearts,
They shatter even the strength of iron or of bronze.
And when two people understand each other in their inmost hearts,
Their words are sweet and strong, like the fragrance of orchids.'â€¦

yet

Six in the third place means:
He finds a comrade.
Now he beats the drum, now he stops.
Now he sobs, now he sings.

Here the source of a man's strength lies not in himself but in his relation to other people. No matter how close to them he may be, if his center of gravity depends on them, he is inevitably tossed to and fro between joy and sorrow. Rejoicing to high heaven, then sad unto deathâ€“this is the fate of those who depend upon an inner accord with other persons whom they love. Here we have only the statement of the law that this is so. Whether this condition is felt to be an affliction or the supreme happiness of love, is left to the subjective verdict of the person concerned.'

and more modern

If you could read my mind - gordon lightfoot

If you could read my mind love
What a tale my thoughts could tell
Just like an old time movie
bout a ghost from a wishin well
In a castle dark or a fortress strong
With chains upon my feet
You know that ghost is me
And I will never be set free
As long as Im a ghost that you cant see
If I could read your mind love
What a tale your thoughts could tell
Just like a paperback novel
The kind that drugstores sell
When you reach the part where the heartaches come
The hero would be me
But heroes often fail
And you wont read that book again
Because the endings just too hard to take

I'd walk away like a movie star
Who gets burned in a three way script
Enter number two
A movie queen to play the scene
Of bringing all the good things out in me
But for now love, lets be real
I never thought I could act this way
And I've got to say that I just dont get it
I dont know where we went wrong
But the feelins gone
And I just cant get it back

If you could read my mind love
What a tale my thoughts could tell
Just like an old time movie
bout a ghost from a wishin well
In a castle dark or a fortress strong
With chains upon my feet
But stories always end
And if you read between the lines
Youll know that Im just tryin to understand
The feelings that you lack
I never thought I could feel this way
And Ive got to say that I just don't get it
I dont know where we went wrong
But the feelins gone
And I just cant get it back

the clues are all over that marital bliss is more likely marital misery so why do people think they will be the exception

now that is delusional

i was chatting with a policeman and i asked him what type of crime was prevalent where i live

"there were only six murders in a year and we solved them all - all were domestic"

now if a 'prince charming' could pay of my karmic debts that would be a different matter entirely would it not

imagine

'here darling your karma is crystal clear' *sigh*

frank · Post by **frank** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:50 am

sky:

in all creatures is a deep drive for genetic survival so often a pair is attracted for purely biological reasons to produce an embodiment of the best possible genetic code available

So Romance is a Function put in place by the Infinite Wisdom of the Tao as a means to get the next generation born...

The Tao wants it that way.

What is the point of Voltaire's little tantrum...who does he think is in charge?

frank

sky · Post by **sky** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:55 am

frank wrote:sky:
in all creatures is a deep drive for genetic survival so often a pair is attracted for purely biological reasons to produce an embodiment of the best possible genetic code available
So Romance is a Function put in place by the Infinite Wisdom of the Tao as a means to get the next generation born...

The Tao wants it that way.

What is the point of Voltaire's little tantrum...who does he think is in charge?

frank

no attraction is the function.........

it is very realistic to create and nurture life

romance is a lifestyle it is the enhanced version of attraction (white lace and promises) instead of turning attention to the new generation the romance is supposed to continue 'forever' and when it does not the participants feel betrayed and tragedy often ensues

a man in my city checked into a five star hotel and threw his two children and himself out the window due to the end of romance - divorce

hardly taoist

voltaire was a diest

FranÃ§ois-Marie Arouet (21 November 1694 â€“ 30 May 1778), better known by the pen name Voltaire, was a French Enlightenment writer, essayist, deist and philosopher.

Voltaire is known for his sharp wit, philosophical writings, and defense of civil liberties, including freedom of religion and the right to a fair trial. He was an outspoken supporter of social reform despite strict censorship laws in France and harsh penalties for those who broke them. A satirical polemicist, he frequently made use of his works to criticize Church dogma and the French institutions of his day. Voltaire is considered one of the most influential figures of his time.

Historical and modern deism (from Latin: deus) is defined by the view that reason and logic, rather than revelation or tradition, should be the basis of belief in God. Deists reject both organized and revealed religion and maintain that reason is the essential element in all knowledge. For a "rational basis for religion" they refer to the cosmological argument (first cause argument), the teleological argument (argument from design), and other aspects of what was called natural religion. Deism has also come to be identified with the classical belief that God created but does not intervene in the world, though this is not a necessary component of deism.

(all wiki quotes)

"Those who can make you believe absurdities
can make you commit atrocities." voltaire

voltaire was against christianity and the bible

the best understanding of voltaire's attitudes towards life and love are in his 'candide'

it is brutally sarcastic satirical hilarious and philosophical

frank · Post by **frank** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:14 pm

sky:

no attraction is the function.........

Yeah...it's Function.

No other Meaning required really.

Just Function.

I guess the proclivity of the Mind then is to 'cook up' some Meaning about it to give it some 'attachment' potential.

Layer some icing on the cake...fool around with it...alter it...make it look like something else...invent some lies...confuse it...

Can't have it be 'empty'...can we?

Gotta have some Meaning happening...pump it up with Steroids.

God Bless the Meaning Makers.

frank

sky · Post by **sky** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:05 pm

frank · Post by **frank** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:01 pm

sky:
(0)

hahaha...good answer!

Spontaneous.

Zen.

frank (enjoying it)

Ankit Gupta · Post by **Ankit Gupta** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:32 am

Of course romance is an instinctual drive. However it is hyped up as a panacea to all ills. Something that provides meaning to life itself. The highest aim of all striving and suffering. Surely one may derive pleasure and enjoyment from romance, one may suffer heartbreak and depression but to impose such lofty ideals! And the whole media and industry keeps on pushing this ideal. This keeps people from adressing the real emptiness in their lives, by chanelling all their energies in something tangential.

DHodges · Post by **DHodges** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:21 am

Ankit Gupta wrote:This keeps people from adressing the real emptiness in their lives, by chanelling all their energies in something tangential.

Interesting point, Ankit. What do you take the real emptiness to be?

sky · Post by **sky** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:03 am

empty of emptiness

empty of silence

empty of stillness

sky · Post by **sky** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:17 am

Ankit Gupta wrote:Something that provides meaning to life itself. The highest aim of all striving and suffering.

romance leads to happily ever after so 'they' say

strive for romance 'they' say to beget happpily ever after

romance is the prerequisite to happily ever after

so 'they' say

sky · Post by **sky** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:23 am

frank wrote: Function.

why=

frank · Post by **frank** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:10 am

sky:

why=

Who knows?

The Atoms that spin in your brain and the Atoms that spin in a salmon swimming in the Atlantic and the Atoms that spin in an orchid just flowering in a Burmese Rainforest...wherever there is a configuration of Atoms...

What spins the Atoms?

The Tao.

There is One Soul (Tao).

You are not part of the One Soul, nor is the Salmon a part, nor is the orchid a part...

You are One Soul.

playing with Forms.

sigh.

frank

sky · Post by **sky** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:34 am

religion is the opiate of the masses - karl marx

love is a drug and i need to score - brian ferry/roxy music

Steven Coyle · Post by **Steven Coyle** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:06 am

Why did you post this?

Can't have it be 'empty'...can we?

Gotta have some Meaning happening...pump it up with Steroids.

God Bless the Meaning Makers.

frank

bert · Post by **bert** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:25 am

Steven Coyle wrote:Why did you post this?

Can't have it be 'empty'...can we?

Gotta have some Meaning happening...pump it up with Steroids.

God Bless the Meaning Makers.

frank

"My great religion is a belief in the blood, the flesh, as being wiser than the intellect. We can go wrong in our minds. But what our blood feels and believes and says, is always true. The intellect is only a bit and a bridle. What do I care about knowledge. All I want is to answer to my blood, direct, without fribbling intervention of mind, or moral, or what not." ernest collings

"We don't exist unless we are deeply and sensually in touch
with that which can be touched but not known." nettles

GENIUS FORUMS

Romance(the new religion)

Romance(the new religion)

romance

romance

romance

Romance and religion

Re: Romance and religion - empty of what?

empty of what

Re: Romance and religion

romance/religion